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"Ethics and Journalistic Integrity"

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He already wrote something about the credible threat thing - http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sejtrh

 

He stands by his belief that he somehow deserves to be the fear police and that "statistical falsehood" supports his charge that women really shouldn't claim to get credible threats.

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He already wrote something about the credible threat thing - http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sejtrh

 

He stands by his belief that he somehow deserves to be the fear police and that "statistical falsehood" supports his charge that women really shouldn't claim to get credible threats.

 

And when someone does attack a woman in real life, he'll be the first to admit that it was really unlikely for it to happen and that his advice still stands for everyone else. Yeah, I'm totally done with this guy and his weird desire to be the arbiter of things about which he knows nothing.

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 You are incorrect to say that she has not received "credible" death threats, because at least some of the threats she has received have been sufficient to involve law enforcement, which has been independently verified by other sources, and they're about as credible as institutions get on a day-to-day level.

 

This element of the discussion seems to be part of something that has been happening, at least in US politics, when it comes to women's issues.  In recent years we've seen terms like legitimate rape crop up, seemingly with the intention of framing crimes against women as somehow being solicited by the victim or that the victim somehow allowed themselves to be victimized through inaction.  The good news however, particularly with the election results from last night (more women in US congress now than ever before), suggests to me that this strategy proves fatal for the one pursuing it.  If the connection that I think I'm seeing exists, I would hope this means that GamerGate is heading into its death throes and at this point just needs to be ignored entirely.

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This element of the discussion seems to be part of something that has been happening, at least in US politics, when it comes to women's issues.  In recent years we've seen terms like legitimate rape crop up, seemingly with the intention of framing crimes against women as somehow being solicited by the victim or that the victim somehow allowed themselves to be victimized through inaction.  The good news however, particularly with the election results from last night (more women in US congress now than ever before), suggests to me that this strategy proves fatal for the one pursuing it.  If the connection that I think I'm seeing exists, I would hope this means that GamerGate is heading into its death throes and at this point just needs to be ignored entirely.

 

The thing is, as awful as the implications of his words actually are, I don't see this as a conscious position being taken by TotalBiscuit. He says something from his gut, then makes an excuse for why it makes sense, then makes an excuse for the excuse, then makes an excuse for the excuse of the excuse, then says that he's being derailed and goes back to his original point as if it were never challenged. It's not considered or rational, it's just a "smart" person who's not used to having to think. He's presenting his instinctual response to harassment and death threats as the correct way to respond to them, then twisting himself in knots trying not to acknowledge that maybe it's not the correct way and that maybe he has no right to that authority anyway.

 

But I do agree with you on the effect of both intentional and unintentional victim-blaming, so the above is really just a quibble.

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He already wrote something about the credible threat thing - http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sejtrh

 

He stands by his belief that he somehow deserves to be the fear police and that "statistical falsehood" supports his charge that women really shouldn't claim to get credible threats.

 

He is now basically GameDawkins.

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He already wrote something about the credible threat thing - http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sejtrh

 

He stands by his belief that he somehow deserves to be the fear police and that "statistical falsehood" supports his charge that women really shouldn't claim to get credible threats.

 

Did anyone else want to barf after reading the previous advice he linked to in that post?  Especially the part where he literally says that making such threats known to the public is entirely pointless and provides no real comfort?

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So, in the last week... KingofPol engaged in Holocaust denial on a live stream - which not only looked bad for him, and for the co-streamers who laughed and egged him on as he did so, but also then made Gamergate as a whole look terrible as Gater after Gater ploughed into critics, posting the dictionary definition of "denial" and insisting that all he did was question the numbers.

 

RogueStar published financial information taken from the criminal doxxing of Phil Fish - forgetting, as Milo Yiannopoulos did with GameJournoPros, to hide all the personal info. In doing so, he destroyed the credibility of the GamerGate Harassment Patrol.

KingofPol then published a laughable PhotoShop, claiming it was proof positive that Nick Denton was paying people to infiltrate GamerGate. This was snapped up and reposted by the Gater Media, and drove people to create even more ridiculous 'Shops, that were then seized on as conclusive proof.

 

Oh, and Milo and the Ralph Retort started hassling Liana Kershner again.

 

And now Totalbiscuit is doubling down on doubling down on Anita Sarkeesian's threats not being credible, on the grounds that she is still alive.

I mean, I guess there's a degree of security in the passing of the news cycle, but I'm starting to see why GamerGate is so reluctant to nominate leaders. I mean, wow.

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So, in the last week... KingofPol engaged in Holocaust denial on a live stream - which not only looked bad for him, and for the co-streamers who laughed and egged him on as he did so, but also then made Gamergate as a whole look terrible as Gater after Gater ploughed into critics, posting the dictionary definition of "denial" and insisting that all he did was question the numbers.

 

RogueStar published financial information taken from the criminal doxxing of Phil Fish - forgetting, as Milo Yiannopoulos did with GameJournoPros, to hide all the personal info. In doing so, he destroyed the credibility of the GamerGate Harassment Patrol.

KingofPol then published a laughable PhotoShop, claiming it was proof positive that Nick Denton was paying people to infiltrate GamerGate. This was snapped up and reposted by the Gater Media, and drove people to create even more ridiculous 'Shops, that were then seized on as conclusive proof.

 

Oh, and Milo and the Ralph Retort started hassling Liana Kershner again.

 

And now Totalbiscuit is doubling down on doubling down on Anita Sarkeesian's threats not being credible, on the grounds that she is still alive.

I mean, I guess there's a degree of security in the passing of the news cycle, but I'm starting to see why GamerGate is so reluctant to nominate leaders. I mean, wow.

 

This is an excellent summation that captures all the reasons why #GamerGate is slowly self-destructing now that it's been rejected by the mainstream. Also, if anyone was curious, the KingofPol incident led me to confirm that "argumentum ad dictionarium" is an actual term for an informal fallacy, one that I'll be making sure to use more on the internet and with my students.

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Meanwhile, since you mentioned King of Pol, he announced that he was done with GamerGate, citing as his reason that he was getting flooded with harassment from GamerGate people.  Seriously.

 

With that said I will address this now, I normally would never say it but it needs to be said now. I have recieved a HUGE AMOUNT of harassment from both sides but the most harassment Inhave recieved comes from #GamerGate itself, not really anti-GG surprisingly.


Emails, Image board threads, Reddit Threads, afew tweets here and there, DMs, even sometimes my Chat on Hitbox, though that is rare. The majority of these have come from regular #GamerGate followers and I have ignored it thus far as GG os more important then anyone of us at this time, but at the cost of my health as well.

 

(In this quote, I've censored the 6-letter F-word because I don't feel comfortable posting that even if it is a direct quotation)

Emails from GamerGate side and acouple anti GG as well about how I need to kill myself so other streamers or whoever can have my viewers or how I need to stop talking anymore and how much of shit I am to be here, The best email I got was from someone who has around 10k follpwers on twitter who many of you know as a big #GamerGate person. They sent me death threats to phone calls, tried to trick me to drive to them for a "chat" even went so far as to claim I was a rapist and child molestor. Tgese thing happened mainly from #GamerGate but sadly, I said "Nah, fuck it Itll stop my actions will justicty my means always!".


well 3 months in and its only gotten worse, cherrypicking anything I do while others get a free pass because they are "Based" while im the ****** who needs to die. I will state that I also gained great friends out of this and I am glad for the moments shared but after all this, I am leaving #GamerGate

My opinion this far is this, emails worked keep it up if you care about it but remember that no one is your friend here unless you actually hang with them and more. Majority of #GamerGate are very nasty people but do have their minds in the right place, but does not justify the means of which to handle things.

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I mean, I guess there's a degree of security in the passing of the news cycle, but I'm starting to see why GamerGate is so reluctant to nominate leaders. I mean, wow.

 

I think its more that no one would want to represent GamerGate because you would, at the very least, have to acknowledge the harassment.  Its why people keep coming in at an angle or trying to tease particular points out into a different discussion.  Everyone sees the shitty behavior but as just a supporter of the movement, and not a leader of it, you can plead ignorance all you like.

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So, in the last week... KingofPol engaged in Holocaust denial on a live stream - which not only looked bad for him, and for the co-streamers who laughed and egged him on as he did so, but also then made Gamergate as a whole look terrible as Gater after Gater ploughed into critics, posting the dictionary definition of "denial" and insisting that all he did was question the numbers.

 

RogueStar published financial information taken from the criminal doxxing of Phil Fish - forgetting, as Milo Yiannopoulos did with GameJournoPros, to hide all the personal info. In doing so, he destroyed the credibility of the GamerGate Harassment Patrol.

KingofPol then published a laughable PhotoShop, claiming it was proof positive that Nick Denton was paying people to infiltrate GamerGate. This was snapped up and reposted by the Gater Media, and drove people to create even more ridiculous 'Shops, that were then seized on as conclusive proof.

 

Oh, and Milo and the Ralph Retort started hassling Liana Kershner again.

 

And now Totalbiscuit is doubling down on doubling down on Anita Sarkeesian's threats not being credible, on the grounds that she is still alive.

I mean, I guess there's a degree of security in the passing of the news cycle, but I'm starting to see why GamerGate is so reluctant to nominate leaders. I mean, wow.

I know it's horrible, but I can't help to laugh at the insanity of it all. 

 

I feel this something out of an absurdist novel.

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Apparently Internet Aristocrat and ... um.. Jay3D, maybe? are also stepping back from Gamergate. And Roguestar has set off on his own to go deep on the investigation of corruption in the IGF, with an elite cadre of agents.

 

We are getting closer to the moment when the twin poles of Gamergate are Totalbiscuit and PressFart. Which will be kind of like the prisoner's dilemma, but with no good solution.

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I’m also not going to claim they were credible, because, well, to put it bluntly, Anita is still breathing.

 

Well, I guess TotalBiscuit never had cancer after all.

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Well, I guess TotalBiscuit never had cancer after all.

 

Hey now, that's taking it a step too far.

 

I'm sure he had cancer, but he's stupid if he believed that it was really going to kill him. Worried about nothing.

 

Edit: I'm frankly just fucking frustrated as hell that TB is implicitly/accidentally endorsing a culture of skepticism of women (in general, because the people he's most skeptical of all happen to be women). Both a skepticism of their veracity but also of their character, when he's basically minimizing feelings of fear that any human has a right to feel regardless of the genre of threat they receive. That being said, my frustration is no excuse for insensitivity and bad taste. I admittedly have no personal history with cancer, so it's an emotional blind spot for me. My sincere apologies to anyone offended by this poor joke.

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Um. I get the point that's being made here, and I agree that this is a difficult statement (if context matters, the whole transcript is here, with a follow-up here and a sortapology here, none of which change much). But, cancer is terrifying. Even cancer with a good survival and recovery rate. And it's terrifying and exhausting for the sufferer's loved ones, also.

 

I don't think Totalbiscuit has done anything to help Gamergate transcend its origins. I don't understand why he thinks he is acting as a voice of moderation. To be honest, I don't get why he thinks he should be acting at all - the other YTers whose feelings were hurt by getting criticisms from outside the filter bubble early on have stepped away. And I don't think his brand is being helped particularly, either, by signal boosting people like KingofPol. But I feel like, regardless of all that, there's value in not going there, even as illustrative satire.

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I’m also not going to claim they were credible, because, well, to put it bluntly, Anita is still breathing.

 

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if context matters, the whole transcript is here, with a follow-up here and a sortapology here

 

There's another sortapology in a comment on soundcloud that a friend of mine sent me

 

So during this video I made a comment about "credible death-threats". I worded this You can find my clarification here - www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sejtrh - I also apologize to anyone offended by this. I want to make it abundantly clear that credible or not, death-threats are horrific and nobody should have to endure them. My experience with them over the last few years has perhaps left me jaded to them and resulted in me referring to them in a flippant manner. Regardless of my experiences, I shouldn't be saying things that make light of death threats, regardless of their credibility

 

Something about that "regardless of their credibility" at the end infuriates me in a way I'm too tired to articulate. It's just so condescending, like how I imagine a Victorian doctor would go about telling a woman she's hysterical.

 

Also, I'm a little sensitive about cancer stuff after a recent loss, so I get that cancer jokes are just playing with rhetoric to point out how absurd his statement was, but maybe that's a bridge too far y'all.

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Yeah, I think TB is a complete tool, but we can find lots of ways to show how terrible his logic and empathy are without bringing cancer into it.

 

Milo decided to go full on racist today though, ranting about how Native Americans should be proud of people dressing up like them for Halloween.  He's not even pretending to be anything other than a foaming at the mouth racist:

 

Of course, if she'd actually wanted to be offensive, she might have donned the more recognisable modern Native American costume of a fleece jacket, vodka breath, a betting slip and a pair of jeans from Big and Mighty straining under the effects of a Taco Bell paunch. But I digress.

 

Denial, any links about the Rogue stuff?  Obviously not to the docs themselves, but just anything about it.  I went through his Twitter, and all I see is him yelling at people to stop infighting and to follow his orders.  I'm sure that's going swimmingly.

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The thing is, as awful as the implications of his words actually are, I don't see this as a conscious position being taken by TotalBiscuit. He says something from his gut, then makes an excuse for why it makes sense, then makes an excuse for the excuse, then makes an excuse for the excuse of the excuse, then says that he's being derailed and goes back to his original point as if it were never challenged. It's not considered or rational, it's just a "smart" person who's not used to having to think. He's presenting his instinctual response to harassment and death threats as the correct way to respond to them, then twisting himself in knots trying not to acknowledge that maybe it's not the correct way and that maybe he has no right to that authority anyway.

 

I wonder if the discussion we had about Dan Ryckert and coasting through life based on high intelligence also applies to TB? He's definitely eloquent and quick-witted, maybe he has learnt that he can always talk him self through any situation, without stopping to think about the values inheret in what he's actually saying. And now he has babbled himself into a corner.

(This is not an excuse for him, just wondering out loud about it.)

 

By the way, in one of the linked TB posts, he says that Anita "inserted herself into the conversation", by releasing her video, half implying she deserves it for getting involved. But this guy also produces video, surely he of all people should know that videos of that caliber takes months to produce, and the release date has probably been set for a long time. In addition, the subject matter of the video wasn't even remotely connected to the conversation at the time, it was the harassers that started lumping everything together with the brand "SJW".

 

 

 

Re: KingOfPol, that's fascinating. I wonder if he has any devoted followers that will second-guess Gamergate after his statement? They seem to be slowly imploding at this point.

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I used to watch some of TB's videos and listen to his podcast until I decided that I wasn't comfortable supporting someone with politics I had a problem with (because he could be dismissive of sexism as not a problem in a #notallmen way). But I think the main reason he's involved with GG is because he's always has a big consumer advocacy ideal. He complains about Steam being shitty to their consumers with relatively no chance for refunds and lack of accountability.

 

I'm guessing that he wants the purported goals of GG to come to fruition, the ethics blah blah blah. I think that could be an interesting conversation but not at the expense of keeping GG alive. I guess he either is unable or unwilling to take a step back from GG and fully understand them rather than just his blanket presumption of them being the 'right side', which is pretty common for how he operated when I consumed his stuff.

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Man, sorry really is the hardest word to say, isn't it?

 

My experience with them over the last few years has perhaps left me jaded to them and resulted in me referring to them in a flippant manner. Regardless of my experiences, I shouldn't be saying things that make light of death threats, regardless of their credibility

 

This may, incidentally, be related to a minor side-discussion where notionally moderate Gater Oliver Campbell claimed that he had evidence from a federal source that at least two threats had been faked. The subsequent mess can largely be found on his Twitter feed, but at a point he shifted to YouTube, recording a stream he subsequently appears to have deleted. As we know, Gaters tend to be remarkably trusting when told things they want to believe.

 

Regardless, the idea that TB has more relevant experience of getting death threats over the last few years than Anita Sarkeesian, and is in a position to give her advice about it, is sort of hilarious. I mean, bless his heart for trying to help, but this is a full-on Men Explain Things To Me moment... 

Bjorn - there's a KiA thread here - basically, RogueStar posted account information from the original hack of Polytron on Twitter. Someone pointed out that he had uploaded a version without all the contact details blanked out, to which he replied something like "oops, my bad!". I popped over to Twitter to see if I could find the originals, but his thread is... busy. 

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I used to watch some of TB's videos and listen to his podcast until I decided that I wasn't comfortable supporting someone with politics I had a problem with (because he could be dismissive of sexism as not a problem in a #notallmen way). But I think the main reason he's involved with GG is because he's always has a big consumer advocacy ideal. He complains about Steam being shitty to their consumers with relatively no chance for refunds and lack of accountability.

 

I'm guessing that he wants the purported goals of GG to come to fruition, the ethics blah blah blah. I think that could be an interesting conversation but not at the expense of keeping GG alive. I guess he either is unable or unwilling to take a step back from GG and fully understand them rather than just his blanket presumption of them being the 'right side', which is pretty common for how he operated when I consumed his stuff.

 

Yeah I also used to watch some WTF Is... videos before this shitstorm, and I will give him this pass. He has talked about actual issues in journalism and consumer rights on a number of occasions. It's arguable whether or not his attitudes were actually valid and well thought out, however almost no other high profile advocate of gatergate can actually say they have had a voice on "ethics" that didn't have something to do with anti-feminist temper tantrums.
 
But all this crap about trying to absolve himself from death threats and doxxing just because GG is a leaderless formless hashtag than anyone can use is a complete and total cop-out. If GG has no leadership, no manifesto, no stated values, goals and methodology outside of "it's about ethics in games journalism" then nobody gets to decide what is and is not the responsibility of GamerGate. If you want to be the voice of GG you need to have the responsibility as well. Otherwise you're just trying to have your cake and eat it.

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This may, incidentally, be related to a minor side-discussion where notionally moderate Gater Oliver Campbell claimed that he had evidence from a federal source that at least two threats had been faked. The subsequent mess can largely be found on his Twitter feed, but at a point he shifted to YouTube, recording a stream he subsequently appears to have deleted. As we know, Gaters tend to be remarkably trusting when told things they want to believe.

 

I actually listened to this stream at work yesterday, it was pretty great. It was him and that roguestar fella talking in circles for an hour+. The only real info he has is that there are federal investigations regarding gamergate threats (duh), that there may have been hoaxes (very vague), and there is some sort of FTC investigation into publications. All he talked about was the existence of investigations re these matters, info you can apparently request from the govt via the freedom of information act. And then he talked about how everyone needs to chill even though he's dropping incomplete info that people are going to run with. Roguestar would interrupt him periodically to tell everyone that this isn't conspiracy bs, that the feds were coming for ya, and to call Ian Miles Cheong a nazi. It was really one of the weirdest things I've ever had the pleasure of dropping in on. 

 

 

Also this brilliant bit of cognitive dissonance in response to this article. In which they find out that the author of an article critical of the relationship between tech/gaming enthusiast press and the companies (author focuses on major companies, not indies) they cover goes to xoxo (gasp) and is not sympathetic to their crusade. 

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