Mington

Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Recommended Posts

I'm surprised at the negativity. This game seems promising to me, and from what I can tell is being marketed very honestly. It seems like it could be rather unique even, although the AssCreed influence is pretty clear. But I'm getting something of a Dark Messiah or even Zeno Clash vibe from this, and I think the border between Mordor / Gondor seems like a place where something like this could take place so I don't see it as out of place in Tolkien's Middle Earth.

 

I'm even more surprised to see negativity towards non-bespoke* systemic content here. Sure, it could all be some bullshit marketing or badly implemented shit, but why believe that at first sight?

 

* I hate that word

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm surprised at the negativity. This game seems promising to me, and from what I can tell is being marketed very honestly. It seems like it could be rather unique even, although the AssCreed influence is pretty clear. But I'm getting something of a Dark Messiah or even Zeno Clash vibe from this, and I think the border between Mordor / Gondor seems like a place where something like this could take place so I don't see it as out of place in Tolkien's Middle Earth.

 

I'm even more surprised to see negativity towards non-bespoke* systemic content here. Sure, it could all be some bullshit marketing or badly implemented shit, but why believe that at first sight?

 

* I hate that word

 

Yeah, I dunno. I guess I'm still hopeful that a game like this can succeed. The negativity around this game throughout this thread is kinda depressing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LET'S TURN THOSE FROWNS UPSIDE DOWN

WELCOME TO THE POSITIVE THOUGHTS ABOUT ASSCREED: MORDOR THREAD

PLEASE ONLY POST POSITIVE THOUGHTS

IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER YOUR THOUGHT IS POSITIVE, PLEASE SUBMIT IT TO THE MONOLITH PR DEPARTMENT, WHICH WILL SCAN YOUR THOUGHTS FOR SIGNS OF NEGATIVITY AND INFORM YOU AS TO THEIR ACCEPTABILITY

THE FOLLOWING THOUGHTS ARE OUTLAWED:

  • THOUGHTS ABOUT SHIELDS
  • THOUGHTS ABOUT ORC DESIGNS BEING SUBPAR
  • THOUGHTS ABOUT THE UNLIKELIHOOD OF A GAME AT THIS LEVEL OF FIDELITY BEING ABLE TO PROCEDURALLY GENERATE COMPELLING NARRATIVES FOR TRULY UNIQUE AND INTERESTING CHARACTERS ON THE FLY BASED ON THE PLAYER'S ACTIONS
  • THOUGHTS ABOUT A RANGER WHO IS ABLE TO MIND CONTROL ORC ARMIES AND TELEPORT AROUND CHOPPING OFF HEADS FAILING TO FIT INTO THE LORD OF THE RINGS CANON IN A WAY THAT DOESN'T WRECK THE FEELING OF THE SETTING
  • THOUGHTS ABOUT TOM BOMBADIL WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THOUGHTS ABOUT HOW GREAT IT IS THAT THIS GAME IS ABOUT A BADASS HEAD CHOPPER OFFER AND NOT THAT FUCKING HIPPIE WHO SITS AROUND IN THE FOREST SINGING SONGS
  • THOUGHTS ABOUT ASSASSIN'S CREED AND ANY CODE THIS GAME MAY HAVE STOLEN FROM ASSASSIN'S CREED


ALL OTHER THOUGHTS ARE POTENTIALLY ACCEPTABLE

PLEASE POST RESPONSIBLY

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tom Bombadil is exclusive DLC for Xbox One Kinect as any fule kno, you big silly.

 

edit: Actually, while we're speaking in the spirit of peace and love, does anyone want to have a bash at Lord of the Rings: War in the North on PC? The one what was in that Humble WB Bundle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LET'S TURN THOSE FROWNS RIGHT SIDE UP

 

WELCOME TO THE LET'S THINK ALL NON-BESPOKE GAMES AND LORD OF THE RINGS GAMES THAT AREN'T LOYAL TO THE SOURCE MATERIAL TO THE LETTER ARE BULLSHIT THREAD

 

THE FOLLOWING THOUGHTS ARE OUTLAWED:

  • THOUGHTS THAT SYSTEMIC STORYTELLING CONTENT CAN BE ANYTHING BUT BULLSHIT
  • THOUGHTS NOT BACKED BY ENCYCLOPEDIC KNOWLEDGE OF LORD OF THE RINGS
  • THOUGHTS THAT ASSASSINS CREED OR BATMAN GAMES ARE KINDA GOOD
  • BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT

THANKS AND PLEASE ENJOY YOUR DREADFUL CONVERSATION

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I kinda just want to be able to say that a goofy trailer looks goofy to me. Is that negative or positive or what?

 

It's neither. I don't have a problem with the people saying the value of the franchise is lost on the game, because frankly I know very little about it and it won't make a difference to how I play the game. However, it seems that the trailer is fairly honest about the ambitions behind the mechanics and I don't think they're completely undoable. It's just odd to me that everyone seems to think that it's going to be impossible to pull off - sure a healthy dose of skepticism is fine, but the tone here seems like more than just that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a pretty common tone for conversations about AAA games these days. And it's a fair skepticism to have, but I agree with you. It can be extremely tiresome. ):

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure it's fair to term this AAA though. It might have a big license courtesy of parent company Warner Bros, and it's certainly referencing some very polished products in its design, but Monolith (which has absorbed what remained of Snowblind Studios after War in the North, right?) hasn't exactly been afforded the status of a triple A dev recently.


On the other hand, even if FEAR 3's campaign was ropey, the multiplayer modes had some good and fresh ideas about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, Iet me explain to ya'll how to react to things:

 

Attempts at originality in a Triple A game: This is bullshit why the fuck would I play this? Give me back what it is I always buy or fuck you!

 

Attempts at copying a successful formula that hasn't been copied that much yet: This is bullshit man, a total ripoff of X, why can't you be original or something???

 

Copying a successful formula that's been copied a lot: Oh it's that genre, ok I hope they do something interesting with it.

 

Attempts at originality in an Indie game: Man that's cool, so brave. I hope they pull it off even though it's never been done well before.

 

Following the lore of a successful IP that you like to the T: Oh man I'm so excited, they even got the height of (Obscure archetype) right to within a 2% margin of error *nergasms

 

Following the lore of a successful IP that you're not interested in to the T: Meh

 

Not following the lore of a successful IP that you're interested in: I WILL GUT YOU LIKE A STUCK PIG!!

 

Not following the lore of a successful IP that you aren't interested in: Meh

 

 

Ok, I think I've cleared up everyone's opinions on everything about this game. We can end the thread now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just heard about/watched the trailer thing for this today. I'm not really sure why people are poo-pooing on this so hard right now. Lately I've been pretty down on the gestalt state of video games but this kind of kindled a spark of hope and interest that I was fearing gone forever. Seeing the mechanics in that trailer kind of made me excited that there are some bigger name developers out there that are inspired by the new gen and are experimenting. Sure, the systems may be an inch deep in the end but they're a lot more intriguing to me then 3rd person shooter #1358310. And, I realize that there are other games in other spaces that do similar things system wise, but they don't have the LOTR license attached to them so no one knows about them  

 

Is a lot of the poo-poo coming from the fact that it looks like AC? What is wrong with that? I've never played an AC game and I don't plan to but they're probably popular for a reason? 

 

On tone:

I'm definitely in the camp that feels weird about the direction the LOTR...extended universe(?) has taken, but I feel like this game is logically consistent within that interpretation. I like that it's set ONLY in Mordor and you ONLY are dealing with the Uruk society. There's also an interesting (debateable) parity with Frodo/Sam except your dude is wrathful. Maybe that will be seen through to the end?

 

The wraith powers are kind of weird to me and took me aback a little bit.

 

I would of preferred to see this in a different, original setting but it's not anymore guilty of destroying Tolkien's legacy than the movies are, and some of the other LOTR games do a much worse job of pissing on that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is a lot of the poo-poo coming from the fact that it looks like AC? What is wrong with that? I've never played an AC game and I don't plan to but they're probably popular for a reason?

I think a lot of shit they're getting for this relates directly to what you wrote in your first paragraph. You're excited because this seems to you like a developer that is "inspired by the new gen" and who is "experimenting" - it has "kindled a spark of hope and interest that [you were] fearing gone forever" because the systems are "more intriguing... then 3rd person shooter #1358310." But to lots of people, there's no experimentation here, nothing new or interesting, nothing unique or different. It's just Assassin's Creed in Lord of the Rings, and we've already had a bunch of Assassin's Creed games, including the pirate one that just came out. Some of those AssCreed games are, as far as many are concerned, perfect examples of how this gameplay can be rote and uninteresting. Certainly there's nothing here that's inspired by the new gen: we've had all this on the PC, XBOX 360, and PS3 for almost seven years now.

So, there's nothing wrong with looking like AssCreed, but what to you is a new exciting foray into parts unknown is for a lot of gamers just the latest attempt to cash in on what at this point is turning into UbiSoft's own little open world stealth action genre that they've kind of created.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just FYI this is coming to ps3/xbox360

Next gen doesn't start until witcher 3. It's all about scale baby

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, which agency is it that hands out triple-A status to developers, was that Standard & Poor's?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But to lots of people, there's no experimentation here, nothing new or interesting, nothing unique or different. It's just Assassin's Creed in Lord of the Rings, and we've already had a bunch of Assassin's Creed games, including the pirate one that just came out.

Some of those AssCreed games are, as far as many are concerned, perfect examples of how this gameplay can be rote and uninteresting. Certainly there's nothing here that's inspired by the new gen: we've had all this on the PC, XBOX 360, and PS3 for almost seven years now.

 

 

Does Assassin's Creed do anything similar to the nemesis system and have each playthrough "unique"? Like I said, I've never touched an AC game so the only knowledge I have of the series is through osmosis through the years, nothing specific. If there is some kind of comparable system then disregard my entire post and continue poo-pooing I guess.

 

Also, don't mistake my initial optimism as a sign-off that Shadow of Mordor will be the saviour of higher profile development for people unattached to the mundane, merely that at this point I took it as a sign of things to come for the next generation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's "pooh-pooh", unless you're actually using "poo-poo" as a synonym for "defecate".

 

The other point that the "pooh-poohers" have made is that the nemesis system looks unlikely to amount to more than a shallow gimmick. I find it hard to understand why so many are finding it hard to understand why so many are reacting cynically.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think most of it (at least around here) is that a lot of us have become cynical of promises made in advertising games, so a lot of us are naturally skeptical about claims that there is a system in the game that will make each and every play through the game unique and different from every other playthrough. Does anyone else remember the claims being made before Fable came out? You could do whatever you wanted and change the world, and players could do things that the programmers never intended! Every playthrough would be unique based on what the player did!

 

On top of that, there's some arguments with the tone of the game versus the tones of Tolkien's work.
 

 

All of that said, I still think it looks pretty fun and I kind of can't wait to play it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think most of it (at least around here) is that a lot of us have become cynical of promises made in advertising games, so a lot of us are naturally skeptical about claims that there is a system in the game that will make each and every play through the game unique and different from every other playthrough. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm as skeptical as the next person about gameplay promises.

 

It seems the information we have about the game at this point is polarizing at best so there's not much more to talk about I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding cynicism: working on a big game involves dealing with a level of momentum that even other game designers, used to working on smaller projects, can fail to appreciate. 

 

A feature like the dynamic relationships is ambitious and will certainly be cool if it works. But, this game doesn't look like the kind of title that will be afforded the time to perfect the system, and from the amount of VO and animation demonstrated in the demo, it will be MASSIVELY expensive to produce the amount of content the system will need, which will all need to be planned well in advance. 

 

To mitigate the risk, the lines will need to be generic, the relationships need to be catch-all and the animations will need to be reused. I'll bet the "hopeless assassination attempt by a small orc that results in the targeted big orc mushing his attacker" sequence is used in every instance of that scenario, probably multiple times in a single play-through, never mind repeated play-throughs.

 

None of this is ever done it bad faith, its just the realities facing these kinds of projects; it is always better to deliver a mediocre product on time and on budget, especially when it is already tied into a recognizable brand and can easily be marketed as being similar to other popular titles (Batman and Assassin's Creed in this case). 

 

The dynamic relationships being bad won't hurt this game, even if critics and snobs like us complain about "missed opportunities" or ruminate how much better it would have been excised entirely. Since it was probably the feature that got the game green-lit in the first place, it will appear in the final product, even if the people making it run into serious issues getting it done well. 

 

Now, this is all coming from my experience in the industry, as well has having paid attention to games for the last 15+ years. I could be TOTALLY wrong. I am almost certainly totally wrong on several points above in relation to this product. But, I think skepticism is well warranted. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think a lot of shit they're getting for this relates directly to what you wrote in your first paragraph. You're excited because this seems to you like a developer that is "inspired by the new gen" and who is "experimenting" - it has "kindled a spark of hope and interest that [you were] fearing gone forever" because the systems are "more intriguing... then 3rd person shooter #1358310." But to lots of people, there's no experimentation here, nothing new or interesting, nothing unique or different. It's just Assassin's Creed in Lord of the Rings, and we've already had a bunch of Assassin's Creed games, including the pirate one that just came out. Some of those AssCreed games are, as far as many are concerned, perfect examples of how this gameplay can be rote and uninteresting. Certainly there's nothing here that's inspired by the new gen: we've had all this on the PC, XBOX 360, and PS3 for almost seven years now.

So, there's nothing wrong with looking like AssCreed, but what to you is a new exciting foray into parts unknown is for a lot of gamers just the latest attempt to cash in on what at this point is turning into UbiSoft's own little open world stealth action genre that they've kind of created.

 

Let's see, other announced triple A releases this year:

 

Dark and Gritty Skyrim (Aka Witcher 3)

Call of Duty with robots (Aka Titanfall)

Boderlands minus the jokes (Aka Destiny)

Car game go vroom (Aka Driveclub)

Open world superhero sequel (Aka Infamous 3)

Demon Souls again (Dark Souls 2)

Metal Gear solid who the hell knows (Aka Ground Zeroes)

Generic Wow clone #infinity (AKA Elderscrolls Online)

Assassin's Grand Theft Auto (AKA Watchdogs)

 

The list goes on. But this gets called out as a cash in... why? Because people haven't copied it enough yet that you're just used too it and accept it? Not a single one of these is a "cash in" according to anyone, this has no reason to be a cash in anymore than a first person shooter is a cash in on Doom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's see, other announced triple A releases this year:

 

Dark and Gritty Skyrim (Aka Witcher 3)

Call of Duty with robots (Aka Titanfall)

Boderlands minus the jokes (Aka Destiny)

Car game go vroom (Aka Driveclub)

Open world superhero sequel (Aka Infamous 3)

Demon Souls again (Dark Souls 2)

Metal Gear solid who the hell knows (Aka Ground Zeroes)

Generic Wow clone #infinity (AKA Elderscrolls Online)

Assassin's Grand Theft Auto (AKA Watchdogs)

 

The list goes on. But this gets called out as a cash in... why? Because people haven't copied it enough yet that you're just used too it and accept it? Not a single one of these is a "cash in" according to anyone, this has no reason to be a cash in anymore than a first person shooter is a cash in on Doom.

 

Yeah, but none of those is "Popular trans-media franchise plus popular game design paradigm". Parodic as they are, all your other examples are just video games that are part of video games franchises, not part of the multi-billion-dollar exploitation of a dead man's works. The combination of AAA game and Tolkien is enough to trip most people's cynicism meters, that's all. It's a perfectly valid position.

 

Also, I'm not sure what the developers are thinking, since they claimed in response to accusations of code theft that any similarity to Assassin's Creed "definitely wasn't something [they] were consciously going for."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's no way that reflects well on them. If they designed a game that plays so much like AC that a previous designer was convinced his animation tools were used as middleware, and didn't even pause to consider the similarities... that's not exactly a good sign regarding the depth of their pre-production and planning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seriously? I didn't even get as far as the combat until I noticed the animation similarities. His walk cycle even looks identical.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now