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A Dedicated Thread For Talking About Star Trek Episodes

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7 hours ago, Ben X said:

This seems like rather a strange idea, and without any further information I'm a little pessimistic, but who knows could be amazing!

 

I am mostly just hoping that he's coming back because he wants to do more, and not because of financial or commercial considerations, because Stewart was so bored and checked out in the last couple of Star Trek movies. The dune buggy scene in Star Trek: Nemesis was specifically included so that he could partake in his favorite hobby during shooting.

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2 hours ago, Gormongous said:

The dune buggy scene in Star Trek: Nemesis was specifically included so that he could partake in his favorite hobby during shooting.

 

WHAT

 

I actually like that movie more now.

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Honestly, it's perfectly human to get burned out on doing the same thing for I-don't-know-how-many years, but then be reinvigorated and enthused to do that same thing after a sabbatical. If anything, we'll get a more intense Picard than anything in Nemesis.

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On the surface I love the idea of more Picard but I'm worried by the statements that it won't be the same Picard.  It makes sense from a story perspective given how Nemesis ended as well as from an actor perspective as I doubt Patrick Stewart would want to return only to rehash his previous performances.  What worries me is the direction the "change" will take.  It could be great but it could just as easily be a complete disaster.  I'd rather he remain the classic character he is now than some half assed attempt by CBS to justify their streaming service.

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He gives the impression that Jean-Luc is going to go Last Jedi, which seems to be an (obvious) idea floating around the net. Picard has always been my favourite because he’s Mr Principles but he has never ever EVER had to compromise them. Which is fantastic, in every sense of the word. His best moments are pretty black and white - he’s 100% in the moral right and he ain’t shifting. Awesome, but it would be interesting to see his rationale in a shitty situation which only has shitty solutions.

 

Regardless, it’s more Picard, which makes me so happy 👍 His speech from The Drumhead made me cry a few months back. If it’s rubbish, or average, nobody’s hurt. But it could be interesting.

 

I understand, but I can never quite agree when people want to preserve a character or a series by not having a new version ‘taint’ the old, as if the original won’t always be there. Like with people not wanting another Twin Peaks following The Return - why the hell wouldn’t you want to see new stuff from Lynch?!? There’s always a risk it might be a turkey but that’s no reason to stop. You don’t get The Undiscovered Country without The Final Frontier. Nemesis didn’t destroy the memory of TNG, and it even had, like, two or three good bits.

 

And maybe Riker finally gets a shot at that chair!! 🤩

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Okay, I've been thinking about the Picard show and how I would love to watch it with my wife. She's not a Star Trek fan, although she's got nothing specifically against it. I've been thinking about a very, very lean playlist (like, ten episodes) of Picard-based TNG that I could prime her with and, hopefully, hook her on the character.

 

I'm looking to avoid technobabble or in-jokes - the goal is to showcase the character and what people love about him in the shortest possible timeframe. I came up with the following which captures some great Picard stuff, sets up recurring themes and will hopefully hold the attention of a non-fan, but I'd like some second opinions:

 

 

Q Who?
- Sets up Q and the Borg, exciting with some hubris that Picard acknowledges. Plus Whoopi Goldberg!
 
Measure of a Man
- Great episode in general, everyone loves Data, sets up Riker/Picard relationship and has some weighty SirPatStew speeches.
 
Who Watches the Watchers?
- Prime 'Prime Directive' episode. Picard as a deity: great stuff. Plus she'll recognise Ray Wise from Twin Peaks.
 
Best of Both Worlds
- Return of the Borg. Obviously Picard is central, but also calls back to Riker 'rivalry' from Measure. Also required for the following episode...
 
Family
- Top, top work. Great episode, no technobabble, mostly Picard.
 
The Drumhead
- Great acting, relevant themes, that speech.
 
Q-Pid?
- Fun episode, Picard as Robin Hood, his relationship with women. Plus Q returning.
 
The Perfect Mate
- Interesting moral Picard-centric episode with a few fun bits. Plus Famke Janssen guesting.
 
The Inner Light
- This is coincidently the only episode she's seen before. All Picard and almost no reversing of polarities to create inverse tachion pulses. Perfect.
 
Tapestry
- Captain Picard Day ftw. Many of the stuffy elements of the character get exorcised and explored here. Plus Q.
 
Attached
- Relationship with Beverly. Plus it's a cool concept. I especially like the croissant bit.
 
First Contact (the film)
- Resolution of the Borg plot. Interesting, easy-going, fun film. Moby Dick references. A1 SirPatStew speeches about drawing lines.
 
 
There are tons of great moments missing, but I want crowd pleasers with lots of Picard. Chain of Command is a sizeable omission but it's a bit heavy - I'm honestly hesitant over Best of Both Worlds. I'm wavering on Attached, too, but I think its important to feature his and Beverly's relationship. If anyone has any comments or suggestions or alterations to that list, I'd be very grateful for them :)

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Chain Of Command was the episode that leapt immediately to mind, so all I can advise is to reconsider that omission!

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Yeah, I might see how it goes with that. Cheers!

Also, I goofed - Captain Picard Day is from The Pegasus. It's a belter, but not Picard-focused.

 

Also also, I'm modding a Diamond Select Enterprise D! Painting and marking windows to drill atm. Has anybody built any ST models before?

 

20180913_132532944_iOS.jpg

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My first thought was The Inner Light which you've already included.  It's the quintessential Picard episode.  I can think of several choice Picard moments but the episodes they occur in are not necessarily Picard-centric.

 

I think Devil's Due has some fun with Picard as space lawyer but there's also a lot of sci-fi nonsense to wade through.

 

Sarek has an excellent scene with Picard struggling to contain the ailing Vulcan's emotions but again it's just that one bit at the end and it's more about showcasing the talents of Stewart than it is about Picard.

 

Lessons is a Picard focused episode (and a very very minor follow-up to The Inner Light) but I find the episode to be awkward and not especially good.

 

The Battle has a lot of Picard background as well but it's also just not a good episode.

 

Captain's Holiday is another Picard episode that also introduces Vash who returns in Q-Pid but it's not terribly interesting.

 

Ménage à Troi has a wonderfully silly Picard moment in it but that's lot to swallow just for that moment, glorious as it is.

 

Chain of Command you talked about so I won't get into it.

 

All Good Things centers around Picard as well but it clearly won't have much meaning without the rest of the series.

 

I guess ultimately I don't have any full episode recommendations that fit your criteria, maybe just some clips.

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Yep, it’s tough to lose great moments in episodes that are a bit wayward. Sarek’s a great shout, although there’s a lot of latent knowledge of Vulcans sort of expected. Devil’s Due is fun, but doesn’t really show anything new about him. I love Conundrum because it shows all the crew’s true colours even though they’ve lost their memories. It’s really an ensemble piece though.

 

The Pegasus would be great even though it’s Riker’s, and I’ve been thinking about The First Duty in the same vein. But if she’s only seen Wesley in Q-Who, she might not give a shit. Perhaps Datalore IS the answer! 😉

 

One really fun episode I thought of that might work is Disaster - the whole crew’s involved, not too much tech beyond the MacGuffin filament thing, also puts Picard outside his comfort zone with kids.

 

On a different topic, I’ve been thinking about The Pegasus and how it actually provides a reasonable justification for Riker not getting another Captaincy offer until Nemesis.

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I've had an urge to watch some Trek lately so I've been dipping into random TNG and Voyager episodes.  Still good in case anyone was wondering.

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After a lull in my viewing, I've picked up S5 of TNG again - brilliant stuff. Worf and his request for euthanasia, the androgynous aliens, the time loop episode... all great episodes.

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I've been watching The Orville season 2 and I'm not sure how I feel about this show.  I liked the first season enough but it's really all over the place.  It's not very funny, it's not very serious, and it's there no real message, story, or focus of any kind.  I felt like the first season had a lot of "everyman" Star Trek in it but now that definition makes the show feel very undefined.  It's got all the trappings of Trek without any of the merit.  The moments that are meant to be poignant don't feel earned and are rather awkward when paired with the attempts at humor.  I don't want to dump too much on the show and am legitimately trying to give it a chance and look beyond it's pedigree but man it's hard.

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If it's that hard, why bother? Not like there's little else on Netflix/tv of quality.

 

Disco season 2 had started! The first two episodes ride the spirit of adventure, captain Pike is a good stand-in for Kirk (bringing much the same energy and we're all so concerned he's gonna die over here) and holy shit did they just have an honest, minute-long conversation about the prime directive?

 

This is starting to sound like actual Star Trek. Not that it stops the characters from doing some dumb shit and acting illogically, slaves to dramatic tension rather than their actual selves - which always comes across as phony. Don't give me characters like Burnham withholding information just to create interpersonal conflict, while there's no good reason for it! But I guess that's more of a '2019 television' thing, because heaven forbid there isn't angsty tension every second.

 

What I wasn't prepared for was how I'd missed thse characters. Seeing Saru, Tilly and Stamets on the tv is a genuine pleasant feeling. I'll be happy to continue watching.

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The main reason I'm still watching The Orville is because I'm trying to figure out why other people seem to like it.  It's one of those low critic, high public score shows.  I've seen several pieces talking about how people think The Orville is better Trek than Discovery.  Having not seen Discovery yet I can't make the comparison myself but it makes me wonder if either I'm missing something about The Orville or if Discovery is really that bad.

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Friends of mine fall squarely in this category: they hate what they know of Discovery (though they're not watching) and are projecting everything that they like about Star Trek [TNG] on The Orville. Since I haven't watched that last one apart from the first two episodes (which were fine), I can't say definitively whether it's one way or the other. Guess it depends on how much rancor you have about Star Trek being a little more flashy and violent nowadays.

 

But have I mentioned they were talking about the prime directive for a full-length conversation scene yet?

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8 hours ago, SecretAsianMan said:

I'm trying to figure out why other people seem to like it

 

I'll tell you something I learned a long time ago: other people are idiots.

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14 hours ago, Roderick said:

Friends of mine fall squarely in this category: they hate what they know of Discovery (though they're not watching) and are projecting everything that they like about Star Trek [TNG] on The Orville. Since I haven't watched that last one apart from the first two episodes (which were fine), I can't say definitively whether it's one way or the other. Guess it depends on how much rancor you have about Star Trek being a little more flashy and violent nowadays.

 

But have I mentioned they were talking about the prime directive for a full-length conversation scene yet?

 

I've long accepted that the more solemn, dignified Star Trek of yore is gone to make way for lens flares and dramatic chase sequences.  My main beef with The Orville is it's suffering an identity crisis.  I can't tell what the show's trying to do.  It wants to be everything while simultaneously doing and saying nothing.  Some parts of it are refreshing such as showing the crew having actual lives outside the bridge or talking more like actual people instead of an academic conference.  But at the same time you get episodes where a virus infects the ship via a porn download while they're trying to save the last survivors of a planet before their sun explodes.  It's a very strange juxtaposition.

 

7 hours ago, Ben X said:

 

I'll tell you something I learned a long time ago: other people are idiots.

 

I can find no fault in your logic.

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