I Had A Random Thought...

[clyde]

This discussion reminds me of a pet-peeve of mine. This may not be consensus, but as far as I'm concerned, anyone who has the authority to fire someone else should never make a joke about how they are going to (or should) fire someone.

[Twig]

Haha, my old boss used to make that joke to me all the time (and we all made it back to him), and it was fine for all of us (or at least it definitely was fine for me).

 

Of course then I got laid off so.

[Badfinger]

This discussion reminds me of a pet-peeve of mine. This may not be consensus, but as far as I'm concerned, anyone who has the authority to fire someone else should never make a joke about how they are going to (or should) fire someone.

 

On a related note, anyone in a position of authority like that should never tell someone they're lucky "just" to have jobs. Because screw you.

[SuperBiasedMan]

"You're lucky just to have a job!"

"That's true, though you're way luckier to have a job where you can casually turn the screws of oppression on people with less stable lives than you."

[Patrick R]

Is Jennifer Lawrence the first A-List actress whose break-though role was as an action star? One of my friends said Sigourney Weaver, but I think it depends on whether you think she broke through on Alien or Aliens (I think it's the former) and whether you think that was an "starring action role" (I don't).

 

(Obviously "starring action role" is subjective, but basically what I mean is Jennifer Lawrence broke through roughly the same way Bruce Willis did.)

[Bjorn]

A-List gets a bit subjective too.  Maybe Michele Rodriguez?

[Patrick R]

That's true, but I don't know if I'd qualify Michele Rodriguez as A-List. She pretty much only ever plays supporting roles, and rarely in high profile Hollywood fare.

[Mangela Lansbury]

Zhang Ziyi? She's definitely niche in America and I have no idea what her status in China is, but her breakout role was Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and I think that's all I've ever seen her do...

 

Then there's the other Chinese kung fu actress who only really had terrible roles in America but was pretty A list in China whose name I can't remember but she was the one in Tomorrow Never Dies.

 

So I guess it depends on your definition of A-List again.

[Badfinger]

If you've only ever seen someone once, they probably aren't an A-List actor. 

 

 

Michelle Yeoh is who you're thinking of. Tomorrow Never Dies definitely wasn't her breakout role, but I guess the SuperCop stuff was action?

[Mangela Lansbury]

Michelle Yeoh is who you're thinking of. Tomorrow Never Dies definitely wasn't her breakout role, but I guess the SuperCop stuff was action?

 

Yeah, Michelle Yeoh! I mean, she's not A-List in America but from what I hear she's pretty A-Listy in China, or was a little while back? And she's most known for her kung fu? It's just a feeling I get from some Taiwanese friends I had before I moved.

 

So it depends on where you are maybe!

[JonCole]

Whether or not these count as their breakthrough roles is up for grabs, but I saw these leading ladies first in these big action franchises (in order of A-listiness) -

 

Kate Beckinsale, Underworld

Cameron Diaz, Charlie's Angels (this is probably most debatable as "action" as well as her breakthrough, but meh)

Uma Thurman, Kill Bill

Linda Hamilton, The Terminator

Milla Jovovich, Resident Evil (edit: actually I just remembered that her breakthrough was The Fifth Element, though she does fully own Resident Evil and I think it's what she's better known for nowadays)

[Badfinger]

Just to be clear, A-List is biggest name, most marketable, popularest. It has nothing to do with acting or likability, although those things are nice.

 

I think only for Linda Hamilton is that a "breakthrough" role, although if I'm being mean but honest it's pretty much her only role.

[Patrick R]

I brought this up on Facebook and Asian actresses were mentioned, which I can't argue with because I don't really know that world of celebrity. But I believe it.

 

Cameron Diaz's breakthrough was There's Something About Mary.

Uma's was Pulp Fiction.

Linda Hamilton wasn't A-list (and never did have a proper career as an action star which sucks because she was badass and had amazing arms)

Jovovich wasn't A-List.

 

Kate Beckinsale, I feel like I never got a handle on her career, the only movie of hers I've seen was The Aviator and it was a tiny part. BUT looking over her career, she fits the bill better than most. She was the lead of her own series of sucessful action/sci-fi movies, she was the female lead in Click which was a massive hit, She was the second billed in Van Helsing which was a huge summer movie, she was first billed in Vacancy OVER Luke Wilson. Not quite the same level as Oscar-nominated media darling Jennifer Lawrence, but the closest Hollywood actress I've seen named yet.

[Badfinger]

Jovovich's "breakthrough" role was also Dazed and Confused, A-List or no.

[Mangela Lansbury]

Part of what I do right now involves going through Chinese school documents. A lot of them send in something called Certificate of A Student, and every time I read that phrase I just think of a mid-90s romcom starring a British guy who never buttons his shirt all the way and a strong independent woman with zero agency in the narrative.

I should go into film production.

[Merus]

Just to be clear, A-List is biggest name, most marketable, popularest. It has nothing to do with acting or likability, although those things are nice.

 

I think only for Linda Hamilton is that a "breakthrough" role, although if I'm being mean but honest it's pretty much her only role.

 

Technically, the A-list are people who will be a draw if invited to a party, and the B-list are people who will be interesting party guests but won't be a draw on their own. The term comes from professional party and entertainment planning. (The C-list is sometimes described as people who are obligated to receive an invitation but wouldn't normally rate one.)

 

The analogy is clearer this way - 'A-list stars' are actors for whom people will go to see a movie because a particular star is in it.

[Reyturner]

What was Angelina Jolie's breakout role? Does Hackers count?

yes

[JonCole]

Technically, the A-list are people who will be a draw if invited to a party, and the B-list are people who will be interesting party guests but won't be a draw on their own. The term comes from professional party and entertainment planning. (The C-list is sometimes described as people who are obligated to receive an invitation but wouldn't normally rate one.)

 

The analogy is clearer this way - 'A-list stars' are actors for whom people will go to see a movie because a particular star is in it.

 

By this token, I'd think it'd be almost impossible for a A-list actress to breakthrough or breakout role as they're kinda antithetical. Like, they can't be A-list and breakthrough at the same time because who would be drawn to watch a movie by an actress who hasn't yet had a big role?

[Patrick R]

In the case of Jennifer Lawrence I mean "actress who became A-List who broke through in a starring action movie role".

[Merus]

I think it's reasonable to say that Jennifer Lawrence is now an A-list star who broke through on The Hunger Games. I'd define a breakthrough role as one where, after the role, the star themselves are a measurable draw for a film.

 

Hackers, I think, doesn't count, but Angelina Jolie might - it seems like she became an A-lister from Tomb Raider, although there's a strong argument her 'breakthrough' came from Girl, Interrupted.

[tberton]

Jennifer Lawrence's breakout role was not The Hunger Games. Hunger Games was 2012: she got an Oscar nomination for Winter's Bone 2010 and co-starred in X-Men: First Class in 2011. Hunger Games cemented her as a star, but she was famous before that.

 

I'd also say that Cameron Diaz's breakthrough was The Mask, not There's Something About Mary.

 

As for the original question, I'd say Sigourney Weaver should count as much as Lawrence. At least, I don't think Hunger Games is much more of an action movie than Alien is. It's much less of a horror movie, yes, but both films have about the same amount of "Action." They're really both about survival.

 

EDIT: I guess I'm working on a different definition of "breakthrough" than you guys. In my mind, it's "big role that got the actor noticed by people in Hollywood" rather than "role that defined the actor as a draw to theatres."

[Patrick R]

I get where you're coming from, tberton, but I think in Alien, Ripley is not an action role. She does not fight, she does not participate in action scenes. It's a strong and interesting female role, but it's Aliens where Ripley became a female action hero. Aliens is also about survival, but Ripley's actions are much more proactive in that and involve things one associates with "action roles" like firing weapons, stunts, defeating the big bad, etc. Same as Katniss in Hunger Games.

 

Also, I think the fact that Jennifer Lawrence was nominated for an Oscar in 2010 and wasn't a selling point in the marketing for X-Men: First Class proves that neither were her breakthrough, but that is operating more on my definition of breakthrough than yours.

 

Also also, as has been mentioned, we're all dealing with a lot of subjectives.

[Bjorn]

At one point in time, you probably could have said Sarah Michele Geller, until her career headed into the direct to video market. 

 

Also, there might be an argument to be made for Sandra Bullock.  She'd been around for a bit, but Speed is one of the things that seemed to really propel her towards being viewed as someone who could carry a movie on her own (and sure, it takes place on a bus, but it is an action/thriller). 

[Merus]

I've been working on the definition of a breakthrough role as the last role the actor did before marketing departments start treating them as a draw - I'm guessing that's what the original question is about, because we're trying to establish female equivalents of Bruce Willis.

 

Alien isn't exactly an action film but it did demonstrate that Sigourney Weaver was a credible badass, so it's either that or Sandra Bullock.

[Badfinger]

Yeah, I'm operating on the idea that "breakthrough" is the significant role, if not leading/starring, which is directly the reason everyone stands up and takes notice.

 

If we were to agree that Jen Lawrence's breakthrough was Winter's Bone in 2010, the reason she wasn't a major role/top billed in X-Men in 2011 is likely because that film already had its stars and principal was probably already in the can before Winter's Bone was released.