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The Cave: Ron Gilbert's Double Fine Game (A Tim Schafer Production) (Not Double Fine Adventure)

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Super Metroid without guns. :tup:

Oh yes! :tup:

This game is looking great and I have to say I had immediately thought of Marek having something to do with this when I heard that Sega is publishing this.

Only Marek doesn't work at Sega anymore.

Wait.. wot? Damn, well I hope he has something great lined up now after Sega.

It is really damn annoying to read comments on any site that's covering the news about the Cave. There is an unbelievable amount of people who think this is the Kickstarter project. Well, timing for this is really bad, but still people just don't seem to get that this is Ronzo's (two headed) baby.

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It's only bad if people think making a game takes like a few weeks. Which apparently they do.

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Way back when, Monkey Island solidified the idea of telling one solid story in an adventure game. Maniac Mansion let you choose your team at the start, making the story and puzzles different for each setup. Zak McCracken let you use different items to solve the same puzzles, meaning that later puzzles would have different solutions if you already used a particular item.

With Monkey Island, that settled down. As Jake points out, there's still a game system there, but it isn't used to provide wildly different story paths or puzzles.

That's why I'm encouraged by The Cave. Team selection is back! This is a part of adventure gaming history we haven't seen in a while and I'm excited to see how it goes.

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I'm super excited about this. However, when I hear about the multiple characters, my dumb brain immediately assumes that the high number of character combinations (35) will make the puzzle too simple. I never played much of Maniac Mansion, so I guess those who did could probably explain how this could potentially work. For example, will each combination have unique puzzles? Will there be a few different solutions for each puzzle, in which there are three roles that many of the characters can fill? I don't know, anyway I'm super excited.

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Maniac Mansion wasn't particularly nuanced in this regard. Basically it came down to certain kids being able to do something with one or two items that others couldn't. Whatever kid's talent you relied on played into the solution of one of the last major puzzles - getting past Purple Tentacle to enter Dr. Fred's lab.

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I'm super excited about this. However, when I hear about the multiple characters, my dumb brain immediately assumes that the high number of character combinations (35) will make the puzzle too simple. I never played much of Maniac Mansion, so I guess those who did could probably explain how this could potentially work. For example, will each combination have unique puzzles? Will there be a few different solutions for each puzzle, in which there are three roles that many of the characters can fill? I don't know, anyway I'm super excited.

Most of the puzzles aren't character-specific. There's no reason the puzzles would have to be any simpler than in any other adventure game, most of which don't feature characters with unique abilities. There are certain locations that are specific to certain characters--so you just can't access those special areas unless you're playing with the relevant character--and certain puzzles that have alternate solutions depending on the different characters, but you'll never need to have specific combinations of different characters to solve a puzzle.

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Not knowing much about it other than what was in the video, it seems like a Gobliiins game, and, lord, were there some tricky puzzles in those games. At least, that's what my childhood memories tell me.

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Most of the puzzles aren't character-specific. There's no reason the puzzles would have to be any simpler than in any other adventure game, most of which don't feature characters with unique abilities. There are certain locations that are specific to certain characters--so you just can't access those special areas unless you're playing with the relevant character--and certain puzzles that have alternate solutions depending on the different characters, but you'll never need to have specific combinations of different characters to solve a puzzle.

I have a number of preconceptions about this game, based on what little I've heard. From the number of available characters (7) and the number of selectable characters (3), I'm assuming that a design goal is to have the player play throught twice with all different characters, and at the third playthtrough be "forced" to select two "old" ones, to discover that the puzzles and interactions will still be very different and interesting. Also, I understand that all the characters are unique (i.e. no Ken and Ryu) in terms of how they solve puzzles and interact with the world and other characters. Thirdly, I'm assuming that it'll be a great adventure game, which, as you say, means no/few simple and straight-forward solutions. If all these assumptions are correct, and I think they are (or I wouldn't have assumed them), it will be very challenging to actually provide a fresh and interesting experience for each subsequent playthrough. I'm not trying to be negative (I really expect this game to be good!), I'm just really curious as to what this game will actually be like, and this multi-character stuff just makes me even more excited and curious.

By the way, this preview at RPS is interesting. Also, the game appears to look really, really good:

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Not knowing much about it other than what was in the video, it seems like a Gobliiins game, and, lord, were there some tricky puzzles in those games. At least, that's what my childhood memories tell me.

The Gobliiins games were sweet, and, in fact, they still are – at least the two sequels. Gobliiins's puzzles were not that great, and it had that dumb health thing on top of that. Gobliins 2 and Goblins 3 is pure gold – great graphics and animations and great puzzles! Oh, and Woodruff and the Schnibble of Azimuth was fantastic as well. Last I heard, they were making a 3D Goblins sequel. Why did adventure games die? 90s 3D, or at least that's how it felt. Playing Simon the Sorcerer 3D was the darkest, most depressing, soul-crushing experience I've ever had.

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Glad to see this announced! Can't wait to play it. I had some role in helping The Cave get signed/funded at Sega and was one of the advisors to the execs during the greenlight meetings (which is a pretty cool situation to be in).

I really like the multiple characters, as well as the cave being this metaphorical place within each of the stories.

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I have a number of preconceptions about this game, based on what little I've heard. From the number of available characters (7) and the number of selectable characters (3), I'm assuming that a design goal is to have the player play throught twice with all different characters, and at the third playthtrough be "forced" to select two "old" ones, to discover that the puzzles and interactions will still be very different and interesting. Also, I understand that all the characters are unique (i.e. no Ken and Ryu) in terms of how they solve puzzles and interact with the world and other characters. Thirdly, I'm assuming that it'll be a great adventure game, which, as you say, means no/few simple and straight-forward solutions. If all these assumptions are correct, and I think they are (or I wouldn't have assumed them), it will be very challenging to actually provide a fresh and interesting experience for each subsequent playthrough. I'm not trying to be negative (I really expect this game to be good!), I'm just really curious as to what this game will actually be like, and this multi-character stuff just makes me even more excited and curious.

Again, most of the puzzles can be solved by any character. Combinations of characters have little to no effect on the puzzles. There are certain areas that can only be navigated if you have one particular character, and alternate solutions based around specific characters, but there aren't going to be puzzles or solutions that require, for example, the Knight and the Adventure at the same time. The character-specific abilities aren't really a major focus of the game, even though they definitely come into play. The game is being designed such that you shouldn't feel like you have to play it multiple times just to get a decent experience, although there is a certain amount of character-specific content.

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Ah, okay. I was under the impression the character-specific abilities was going to be the focus of the game, like in the Gobliins games. I think I understand what they're (you're?) going for now.

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The Gobliiins games were sweet, and, in fact, they still are – at least the two sequels. Gobliiins's puzzles were not that great, and it had that dumb health thing on top of that. Gobliins 2 and Goblins 3 is pure gold – great graphics and animations and great puzzles! Oh, and Woodruff and the Schnibble of Azimuth was fantastic as well. Last I heard, they were making a 3D Goblins sequel. Why did adventure games die? 90s 3D, or at least that's how it felt. Playing Simon the Sorcerer 3D was the darkest, most depressing, soul-crushing experience I've ever had.

Then you probably shouldn't get excited at the prospect of Goblins 4. I made that mistake, once. I learned.

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Anyway, The Cave looks and sounds great. I am excited.

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Goblins 3 was a fucking great game.

Woodruff as well.

I own that ugly 3D Goblins game and have yet to play it, but it can't suck that much right?

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I don't how this will be used, but the idea of having each character bring is own inner-world in The Cave is a very, very elegant. :tup:

The in-game art looks amazing; way better than what the character concepts hinted at. :tup: all around!

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Though I think they were sometimes a little too on the nose, and a little too bunched up back to back structurally, the dating game, pirate face-off, voodoo noun/verb possessions, and manatee translation puzzles in Lair of the Leviathan all hit on this secret "systemize your shit!" pillar of Monkey Island's design structure, without ever touching insult swordfighting. And, surprise, it was many fans favorite episode. No fan is going to say "I like it when Monkey Island's puzzle structure introduces systemized gameplay in the tradition of a light RPG, but does it using the vocabulary of the graphic adventure," but I think I will know that's at least part of what they mean when they say "I like insult swordfighting." (They'll of course also mean: "I liked to feel clever while choosing between a bunch of funny dialog," but that's all of Monkey Island, when done right.)

This is a great example and I think you're dead right about this.

Man I was going somewhere with this but I didn't. There might be a point in there somewhere. It's not "Your fans are trying to tell you things, and you should listen to them, but there is often a disconnect between what they are asking for and what they really want and need, there is a line between hearing suggestions and feedback and taking orders, and they are your fans because they like what you do so trust your judgement even though people are watching!" but that's close. Video games!

I totally agree, and this extends to all software design, and, heck, probably all design generally as well. Users (people) have very strong opinions about what they like and don't like and want and don't want. But we're very bad at knowing ourselves and actually understanding what we like about the things we like. We're also very bad predictors of our own happiness. How many times have you seen a movie trailer, thought "this will be great," and then been horribly disappointed? LOTS. It is the job of the creator to make these unconscious yearnings conscious, to make the subtext into text, so to speak, and create what it is the user will like, not what the user "wants." Simply by nature of having been through the design process, designers have thought more often and more deeply about their potential creations, and so when people say "It is critical that box x have function y!" designers have a better understanding of how people would actually react to box x and what would actually be an even better idea. Maybe.

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It looks rad and I wish I could attend the The Cave event in London next Saturday and I wish Chris was going because then I would skip work and make my way to London but I can't and he's not.

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I can't wait for the release of this! Is it really coming already in January? So close, so close...

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Wow, this looks great! Looks like exactly the kind of witty adventure-platformer I've been waiting for Gilbert to make since, well, Monkey Island. I also approve of the trailer's Wilhelm scream.

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Awesome, that means that I will be taking a day or two off from work in January. :)

I'm going to dedicate those days for The Cave.

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The Cave looks really good, but I'm not super stoked about the Cave narration; even more so if it's throughout the whole thing.

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It sounds to me sort of like most adventure games, where dialogue would be funnier if you read it yourself, but it's 2012 so you gotta have voice acting. I think there was a discussion about this around the Monkey Island remakes, and nobody agreed with me.

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