Heavy Rain

[Thrik]

Well, I guess that's where our contrast is then. If you didn't enjoy Fahrenheit then you're probably not seeing the same enjoyable aspects I saw in the Heavy Rain demo. The reason I can't sit here and lambast David Cage is because I actually enjoy his work despite its flaws.

I know quite a lot of people who similarly enjoyed Fahrenheit though, and I suspect anyone who could tolerate Fahrenheit's silliness will enjoy Heavy Rain considerably.

I think the QTE-style gameplay is something you either hate or don't mind, with people used to games like Metal Gear Solid probably being particularly tolerant of them. And it's not like the game is constant QTEs as the demo seemed to have equal measure of non-QTE play just like Fahrenheit did, instead going for adventure game-esque exploration/investigation type gameplay.

As I say though, it's something different. As arrogantly as Cage put it, I would prefer something like this than another shooter — it's nice to have something different. I'd put it in a similar category to games like The Path, which aren't necessarily games but can delivery interesting experiences.

[ThunderPeel2001]

From the demo, heavy rain seems to pretty much be Dragon's Lair. Am I missing something?

That's precisely how it looked to me.

[Lu]

Then Dragon's Lair is to Heavy Rain what Wolfenstein3D is for CoD:Modern Warfare. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't think that it was a landmark title either, but Heavy Rain is much more an evolution of Fahrenheit than anything else.

[Nappi]

A while ago, I realized that if I didn't expect too much, or nothing at all, from this game I might actually find it somewhat entertaining, at least in an average CSI episode kind of way. Then I played the demo. The controls were absolutely horrible and didn't feel natural at all. Every little thing felt like a chore. The fact that there are actual choses as well makes it even worse. I simply can't imagine launching this game on Saturday morning just to guide some FBI agent up a slope for five minutes while I could be spending all that time stabbing people in the back and face in non-rainy Venice.

As the plot, it seems, isn't very strong either and as I don't find the structure all that new or interesting, I think I'm going to skip this one, at least for the time being, and concentrate on something that doesn't make me miserable because I can't eat spaghetti while I actually can.

[Erkki]

I haven't played this (as I don't have a PS3 yet), but from some of the recent videos the only thing I really didn't like is indeed that the game makes you perform all those mundane actions. But I might have a different opinion once I've actually played it.

[Thyroid]

To a point, I don't think something on this level has been done; you don't give any examples of who did the same thing before it, so you might prove me wrong.

You mean on an emotional level? Apparently the story is stupid, and if there's anything games have done it's the stupid story, so if it's emotion you're talking about...I mean, what, love? Fear? Trust? Aren't all of those things in Ico? Doesn't Yorda go from taking a risk with the kid to completely trusting her life with him at the end? She's reluctant to jump at first, but by the end she'll take huge jumps and have him catch her without a second's thought...

That was an emotional moment.

Still, there is a lot of contempt for something some of you only ever read about. Although you might be completely right (I haven't played it either), I think it's good that a game like this exists. The broader the types of games that can come out and do well, the happier I am.

No, me too. I'd like to see somebody make video game's answer to The Wire or a George Pelecanos novel: really.

Can't agree that it's racy because there are a pair of tits on the female. Another thing that bothers me is that both those scenes are completely out of context.

"Racy" isn't the right word...It's like those movies that have little going for them, and as such have trailers which emphasize the nudity. My point being that they're looking for something to sell to young teenage boys, and then say: "We're doing this for the maturity." I don't mind nudity. But it seems that, in this case, it's just a bullshit excuse. Even if you go to YouTube, type in "heavy rain" and wait for the suggestions, you'll get "heavy rain strip".

I can't completely disagree with what you're saying Kroms, but I think you're letting your opinion of Cage influence your opinion of the game a bit too much. It's like actors like Tom Cruise and Russell Crowe are often dicks in real life, but I still admire their acting tremendously. You seem to be criticising a few too many things based on emotion and speculation.

I'm aware that a good man doesn't necessarily make good art, and vice versa. My main gripe is that he thinks he's done something wonderful, whereas the game itself says "I'm only OK". What you're saying is right, though: I'm basing my opinion on the game on a demo, a few videos and a few reviews; while informative, they aren't enough to form an overall opinion on the game.

I think you'd have a less stressful time if you just stopped following what Cage says like I did with pretty much every significant industry figure years ago. They always get overly passionate and slightly arrogant when talking about their work — it's the nature of the business that every auteur wants their work to revolutionise the industry. Same goes for films — director interviews can be truly cringe-worthy.

Considering that I want to at some point work in the games industry (don't laugh at me; I may be a douche, but at least I'm a dreaming douche), I probably have to read everything about the industry I can. I do care about games, that's the thing.

I know quite a lot of people who similarly enjoyed Fahrenheit though, and I suspect anyone who could tolerate Fahrenheit's silliness will enjoy Heavy Rain considerably.

I'm enjoying Fahrenheit, bless it. I just don't think it warrants arrogance, and neither it, nor its PS3 evolution, warrant > $30 - and that I can defer from reviews and a demo.

It's not like Cage made Heavy Rain by himself, though. I doubt Quantic Dream is full of talentless assholes.

Re-check that Eurogamer interview I linked to. He constantly refers to "I", and only once or twice to "we".

He reminds me of movie directors who write, "A film by blah blah," but who have not written, edited, shot or produced the movie - they "directed" it, which, of course, overrides everything else.

[SignorSuperdouche]

You mean on an emotional level? Apparently the story is stupid, and if there's anything games have done it's the stupid story, so if it's emotion you're talking about...I mean, what, love? Fear? Trust? Aren't all of those things in Ico? Doesn't Yorda go from taking a risk with the kid to completely trusting her life with him at the end? She's reluctant to jump at first, but by the end she'll take huge jumps and have him catch her without a second's thought...

That was an emotional moment.

Just to respond a little to this bit. I think the aspects of Fahrenheit/Heavy Rain that are unique are not the emotions they (attempt to) provoke but the way in which they attempt to provoke them.

[SoulChicken]

I am getting this today because I believe in the future of Video Games. Countdown to visceral immersion begins now.

[Garple]

But if the game doesn't sell, it's going to close doors to everybody and for a long time. It's going to take years before someone tries something creative again.

This is one of the most absurdly presumptuous things I've ever heard.

[Thyroid]

Just to respond a little to this bit. I think the aspects of Fahrenheit/Heavy Rain that are unique are not the emotions they (attempt to) provoke but the way in which they attempt to provoke them.

Not sure what you mean: the ideas have all been put out in different games. Unless you mean that you admire they tried their hand at police procedurals/detective stories, which I will admit is admirable. I'd like to see gaming's answer to Raymond Chandler, The Wire, George Pelecanos, etc.

Anyways, I don't want to completely derail this thread, but I'll take a detour. I was playing Fahrenheit earlier. I think I'll stop. To quote Wikipedia:

The overall plot follows

Lucas as he attempts to uncover the reason behind the murders. He initially attempts to move past the experience, talking his way of a visit from the NYPD, but Lucas begins to experience hallucinations, primarily involving arthropods, which eventually attack him, forcing him to flee from his banking job. The Oracle, a Mayan sorcerer, attempts to kill Lucas more directly by placing him in pseudo-reality inside his apartment, which Lucas manages to escape.

Lucas contacts a spiritual medium, who places him in a trance to recall the events in the diner, which initially terrify the woman. Lucas returns to his apartment to find it surrounded by police. During this time, Lucas demonstrates superhuman strength, reflexes, and agility, dodging bullets fired by police and leaping 30 feet into the air onto a moving subway train. Lucas' ex-girlfriend is eventually kidnapped by the Oracle to draw out Lucas, and in an attempt to save her from a fall, Lucas is killed. He returns to life later in the game through the Chroma present in him, though this is never explored.

Detective Valenti and Lucas eventually learn the location of Jade, the Indigo Child, who possesses a secret that will give great power to whomever hears it. During this time, a third faction, the Purple Clan, composed of an anthropomorphic artificial intelligence (AI), also steps forward to assert a claim on the child. Lucas, the Oracle, and the AI converge on the military base where Lucas grew up and was exposed to the Chroma.

In each ending, taking place three months later, Lucas states that he has been living with Carla since the end of the game. He then adds that Carla is pregnant from the time in the underground base with the Invisibles, and that their child was exposed to the Chroma as Lucas had been when he was in his mother’s womb.

Gamespot gave this shit their Best Story award in the same year Psychonauts was nominated.

I quit playing at the point where

that creepy old woman turned into some light humanoid and Lucas jumps Matrix-style out of a window

.

I mean, the thing reads like the fucking Da Vinci Code. Why? I don't understand why and how you could go from a surprisingly tense escape in the snow to a badly written police procedural, and then finally end with AI, clans and sentient beings.

It's like a messy, really lame and convoluted parody of Sam and Max: Season One, except it works in Sam and Max - and not just because of the humour involved.

Anyways, sorry. I ended-up hating Fahrenheit. It irks me that there's so much potential there, but they messed it up completely.

What a waste of a great idea.

[Thyroid]

OK, I promise I'll stop on the Cage crap (unless he says something really outrageous), but I couldn't resist posting this. It is full of depressingly funny quotes, including:

I feel a little bit arrogant, but I feel really close to Welles. Not the weight, I hope, but with Citizen Kane, he was the first one to use the camera to tell the story. And I got the exact same feeling in Heavy Rain. In other games, the camera is just a window. We use it to create emotion.

I have to admire a guy that out of touch with reality. It's almost like he's high: high on life, on genius, and the smell of his own fart. All of which begs the question: has he always been this unintentionally hilarious, or did he have to work on it?

Edited February 25, 2010 by Kroms

[syntheticgerbil]

You see, just like Orson Welles was the first person ever to use a camera to tell a story, David Cage is the first person ever to use a video game to tell a story.

It all makes sense now.

[Sombre]

Immergent real time cinematic gameplay, the evolution of games as it transcends the genre while simultaenously recreating it.

Featuring real world baby mechanics. Feed and change the baby to fill up your babymeter to get maximum babytime!

[miffy495]

That just looks like a diagram for how to drop a baby...

[Lu]

That just looks like a diagram for how to drop a baby...

It was. The one before that...

David Cage is a sick bastard and is going to hell.

[elmuerte]

HAHAHAHA

this just made my day

[Nappi]

Awesome! :tup:

Shake a baby for emotion.

[Erwin_Br]

Where is Jack Thompson if you need him?

[Cigol]

Awesome! :tup:

Shake a baby for emotion.

I've played up to that point so far and the scene with the baby was actually very sweet.

[syntheticgerbil]

That just looks like a diagram for how to drop a baby...

:tup:

Ahahaha, I wish someone would vectorize it like the Fight Club plane diagrams now!

[SoulChicken]

What Is Game?

Not Heavy Rain

No plot spoilers.

I played this for 4 straight hours yesterday. It's a pretty good not video game so far. The controller movements are a bit silly but kind of laid back and natural. So you keep doing these little things that control the character on the screen, tiny things like turning a light off or opening the fridge. Even though I do funny things whenever I get the chance does lull you into a feeling that you have some connection to this world.

Of course its all a trick, you have only a tiny bit more involvement than watching a film but its quite an enjoyable and engaging trick. Its all worth it for that moment when you something "big" happens, that you react to or make a decision with one of those small stupid button taps or stick swivel without really thinking about it and you are involved. Compared to the thousands of imaginary triggers I have pulled on imaginary guns, nothing was quite like the one bullet I shot last night. Shit! What did I just do!

The more obvious Dragons Lair-God of War style QTE's (move left now to avoid that oncoming car!! Hit O to dodge the punch!) are pretty silly and I guess are the "game" aspect but you aren't playing a video game so I let them go. What works (so far) is making a hard decision in real time. I dont know how much of it was illusion because I just kept moving on but it felt pretty cool.

Although the illusion was totally broken when my reaction to this dude doing something reckless was "You know what, I'm going to go to the police with this instead." If this was a Video game (well a good Video game) I could have done that. Instead here they even let me hit the X button marked POLICE in his onscreen thoughts and the dude just looks at me and goes "no you are wrong, I am doing this, that actually wasn't an option." The fucker second guessed me.

Not a video game. Quite fun nonetheless. Very pretty. Sometimes your character says stuff to you to give you hints (while searching for something CSI style) and sounds like Guybrush Threepwood telling you cant use a monkey on a pillow.

So I think its a pretty cool experience so far.

(There is some pretty cool CSI/Ace Attorney stuff that would be a really nice way of controlling an adventure game.)

Edited February 27, 2010 by SoulChicken

[Erkki]

If I accept Passage as a game, I have to accept Heavy Rain as a game. I have yet to play it, but I see it as being a different type of game that I'm not maybe going to be a big fan of, but some people who currently maybe don't even play games or play only some very casual games may enjoy a lot.

Those of you who have played it, how does it compare to some of the 90's interactive movie games regarding the level of interactivity? (besides the inputs being completely different obviously)

[Thrik]

Given it a quick go and first impressions are very good. The demo was cool but didn't really win me over as it was mostly a demonstration of technology, whereas in the full game I've only been introduced to one character and the first major thing that happens to him, yet I'm already completely invested in his story and found it hard to stop playing. The whole opening sequence is pretty powerful too.

The gameplay can hardly be considered taxing, yet it's somehow completely engaging — even when the action scene consists of little more than frantically checking your pockets or walking through a crowd.

[SoulChicken]

What Is Game?

Not Heavy Rain

Well it turns out it might be Bad Game

:buyme:IMMERSION UPDATE:buyme::buyme:IMMERSION UPDATE:buyme:

:tdown::tdown::tdown:

Finished it. Basically the game went downhill immediately after I picked it back up.

This is a terrible game/interactive experience. Its not even a choose your own adventure, the vast majority of the pivotal moments come down to skillz at QTE, not based on choices you make.

Plus the story is a weak straight to video 90s serial killer thriller post silence of the lambs. Fine until the really stupid parts.

The good things I saw in the first four hours were clearly a mistake and not the intention (oh hello there indigo prophecy). If this had been an adventure game and not a mashfest, it could have been pretty good way to do an adventure game. It's a mashfest, at least in every crucial moment that matters.

[brkl]

That sounds strikingly familiar.