ysbreker

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Yeah my problem was not that it is Oscar Bait. It's been months since I saw it so I would have a hard time citing specifics, but I remember the dialogue striking me as very artificial and clashing with the films  whole organic, single-shot style. Contrast that with something like Grand Budapest where the performances and directorial style go together really well. I didn't think the characters were believable (see bad dialogue) and they all came across more as cliches than actual people, and I thought the ending was lame. And that's my Birdman Rant.

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Yeah my problem was not that it is Oscar Bait. It's been months since I saw it so I would have a hard time citing specifics, but I remember the dialogue striking me as very artificial and clashing with the films  whole organic, single-shot style. Contrast that with something like Grand Budapest where the performances and directorial style go together really well. I didn't think the characters were believable (see bad dialogue) and they all came across more as cliches than actual people, and I thought the ending was lame. And that's my Birdman Rant.

 

It's really weird to read someone write that, because after you bring up Grand Budapest Hotel, all the criticism that follow could apply just as much to it as to Birdman.

In a quasi-historical setting, Wes Anderson's overly twee characters grate on me a lot more than usual, and there's no ending more lame than killing a major character offscreen with some goofy-sounding disease after their well-being has been an anchor for the plot.

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I admired Birdman technically. The CG stitching of takes distracted me and made me wonder why they bothered. If it was to focus unflinchingly on the scene and the actors, a swift classic fade to black would have worked better. However, maybe the intention was to make me consider the technicalities of filmmaking as I watched the technicalities of the theatre.

Either way, I wanted to enjoy Birdman more than I did. Whiplash is the film I want to see again.

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I saw Kingsman and it was pretty fun. It was big and dumb but the dumbest part was the climate scientist described as a doomsayer who had a Gaia theory that he was backing.

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I've heard some criticism that the movie was specifically made to cater to actors and the academy (Oscars), as a "Isn't our life just like this as actors?!" deal. I haven't seen the film but I'm inclined to trust where I heard this from.

 

Wait, can I dig up this post for a second? Everyone talks about how Birdman is just "Oscar bait" because it's about a white male actor who's having a midlife crisis, which is true, but Birdman is interesting not because it's a well-written and well-directed instance of writers-writing-about-writers and actors-acting-as-actors, but because of how it depicts that midlife crisis differently from mere glorification of the hard life that is "the biz." Let me look, I think I wrote about it on one of my blogs...

 

I saw Birdman again with my father, who couldn't get over the questionable reality surrounding the main character. Trying to explain the metaphor there, I was struck by how the film depicts the experience of fame as essentially a mental illness. For a while, Riggan had this universally acknowledged importance based on his fictive accomplishments, but as people forgot about him, the importance retreated from reality, at least as it exists through general consensus, and ultimately existed only in his head. It became the feeling of power without the power itself.

 

And in general, the movie shits on the very thing that the Academy represents. Riggan hates that people treat him like his character even though they're two separate individuals, depicted separately in the film itself, and he craves artistic validation from haughty and uninterested gatekeepers who don't even care about his play because they see his past experiences of success as antithetical to the creation of art. On the whole, celebrity is deviant, distressing, dysfunctional and dangerous for him. And in the end...

He attempts to kill himself, almost certainly out of despair that he will always just be Birdman, and this effort of radical self-abnegation is immediately and universally interpreted as a creative act, done expressly for the approval of the aforesaid gatekeepers. He's stuck, even more than before, and after some doubt, it seems like he accepts that, if only because it brings him closer to his daughter and ex-wife.

As positive as it is with its story about Riggan's rehabilitation as an artist and a father, the movie presents a fairly dark picture of art and of fame, with critics and other actors squarely to blame for it. Maybe the Academy is too philistine to get that out of the movie, but that definitely makes it something other than "Oscar bait" to me.

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As positive as it is with its story about Riggan's rehabilitation as an artist and a father, it presents a fairly dark picture of art and of fame, with critics and other actors squarely to blame for it. Maybe the Academy is too philistine to get that out of the movie, but that definitely makes it something other than "Oscar bait" to me.

 

I'm not going to get into the whole "is Oscar Bait a good term" debate, but I feel I should point out that just because something is critical of a group doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't intended for them. Actually, quite the opposite; praise and criticism both tend to be methods of engagement with a person/issue/group you find important in some way.

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I'm not going to get into the whole "is Oscar Bait a good term" debate, but I feel I should point out that just because something is critical of a group doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't intended for them. Actually, quite the opposite; praise and criticism both tend to be methods of engagement with a person/issue/group you find important in some way.

 

Oh, I don't doubt that Birdman's characters and themes were directed in part at the Academy, but "Oscar bait" implies that it was designed in some way to win an Oscar, with which I disagree. If the Academy liked people being critical of stuff that mattered to its members, Paul Thomas Anderson wouldn't be a pariah because of The Master.

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Oh, I don't doubt that Birdman's characters and themes were directed in part at the Academy, but "Oscar bait" implies that it was designed in some way to win an Oscar, with which I disagree. If the Academy liked people being critical of stuff that mattered to its members, Paul Thomas Anderson wouldn't be a pariah because of The Master.

 

wait what

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wait what

 

I'm not sure how many people in the academy are into Scientology but the titular Master is meant to be L. Ron Hubbard or closely like him.

I found that movie pretty interesting because the exercises and types of people in it strongly reminded me of my time with the School of Philosophy and Economic Science -at the time of watching at least; I need to go back and re-evaluate it.

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No I meant 'what do you mean Paul Thomas Anderson is a pariah' because that's the first I've heard about it. I know about how it's a thinly veiled rip on Scientology.

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Well, did you see John Travolta try to feel him up at the Oscars? I don't think so!

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It's really weird to read someone write that, because after you bring up Grand Budapest Hotel, all the criticism that follow could apply just as much to it as to Birdman.

In a quasi-historical setting, Wes Anderson's overly twee characters grate on me a lot more than usual, and there's no ending more lame than killing a major character offscreen with some goofy-sounding disease after their well-being has been an anchor for the plot.

 

Regarding Grand Budapest Hotel

I saw it as more Gustav's story than Zero's (or maybe the two of them together), so once Gustav died, the wrap up didn't bother me and I thought the twee-ness and artificial setting went well together. If the story had taken place within real events/locales it would have clashed worse for me. But I can't say I ever blame anyone for being annoyed by Wes Anderson's whole shtick.

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http://www.hitfix.com/motion-captured/world-exclusive-what-are-katee-sackhoff-and-james-van-der-beek-doing-in-joseph-kahns-powerrangers

 

 

I appreciated it as an over-the-top reaction to Hollywood's ridiculous make-everything-dark-and-gritty shtick, but the guy's insistence that we're supposed to take it seriously and that none of it is intended to be goofy (barring the hip hop kido bit) was, uh... Yeah okay. It was super cheesy.

 

Still I was amused.

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No I meant 'what do you mean Paul Thomas Anderson is a pariah' because that's the first I've heard about it. I know about how it's a thinly veiled rip on Scientology.

 

"Pariah" is probably overstating it, but it's almost certain that no film by P.T. Anderson is going to win an Oscar for a decade or two because of The MasterThe Master itself got a bare handful of nods, Inherent Vice got less than even Interstellar, and I don't doubt that the pattern will continue.

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"They just made it for the Oscars."

 

If there's one single piece of garbage criticism around, it's that. I loathe it and it's nonsense for a variety of reasons.

 

1. Why would that be a bad thing? It implies that the movie is somehow less good, but why? Because it's easy to win an Oscar? Because it appeals to certain ideas and themes, and somehow they're unworthy? Because Oscar films are somehow less good? Because they pander to an audience? Have I got news for you: so does every film.

 

2. Saying things like this is such a gross underestimation of the effort it takes to make anything, let alone a film. The majority of movies, most of all the ones that actually turn out well enough to be considered for an Oscar, are the product of passionate people sacrificing years of their lives to create something. Brushing off their creative choices as some ploy is condescending.

 

3. By all means, criticize a film for what's there, but don't give in to this. It's a lazy shorthand for disagreeing with the film's theme and/or considering it pretentious (in itself one of the more worthless critiques possible) or saccharine. Instead of elucidating those points with a thorough critique, the Oscar line is sneaky, it's a nasty little snipe at the film, something that sounds like you've 'uncovered' a secret motivation that dispels the whole thing. It's ratty and mean-spirited: "Ooh, it's just Oscar-bait."

I probably leaned on the "Oscar bait" thing too much. Those words weren't used. It's more of like... the film was made for actors to see, rather than for everyone to see. I mean, as far as making any sort of connection or having something to relate to. That's a better way to frame up the criticism I heard (which I can't link to because it was spoken word; radio). Again, I haven't seen the movie myself. I was just offering up the opinion to see if anyone could see merit in it (which doesn't mean agreeing with the film being bad).

 

And it's cool to make things that cater to specific audiences / demographics, by the way. It just sucks if you're outside the target range.

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Not having heard that radio bit (so I might miss the mark), but that seems like a strange thing to say. Birdman, and many other films in various other areas, does a great job of communicating what it is to be in the stress of a theater production, and how it could feel if you're a washed-up actor. I am neither, but I was totally invested in it. Don't all movies do that? And in a larger frame, Riggan's struggle with proving himself and creating art is, I think, very human and relatable. So I don't get that critique at all.

 

Fiction offers you an insight into a life that is by definition not yours, so the job has always been to establish empathy and understanding. You might argue that Birdman is unsuccessful at that (I'd disagree), but to critique the very notion...?

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Yeah, calling Birdman Oscar bait does disservice to what people are trying to express by calling movies Oscar bait - there's a glut of milquetoast, creatively bankrupt movies, frequently biopics, that try and coast on the assumption that the Academy won't really understand the significance of this person's work but because they had a Personal Tragedy they deserve recognition. These movies are running a con. Whatever you might say about Birdman, it's not creatively bankrupt, and it had something to say other than 'isn't this actual person inspiring'.

 

It might be accurate to say that it's myopic, or decadent, but they're not Oscar bait and we already have appropriate, resonant words to describe what's wrong with a work that is far too focused on the opinions of actors, or a work that is so steeped in the works that have come before it that it's less accessible to anyone who isn't familiar with those works.

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Yeah, calling Birdman Oscar bait does disservice to what people are trying to express by calling movies Oscar bait - there's a glut of milquetoast, creatively bankrupt movies, frequently biopics, that try and coast on the assumption that the Academy won't really understand the significance of this person's work but because they had a Personal Tragedy they deserve recognition. These movies are running a con. Whatever you might say about Birdman, it's not creatively bankrupt, and it had something to say other than 'isn't this actual person inspiring'.

 

Oh you mean The Theory of Everything.

I'm being a dismissive jerk by saying this because I haven't seen that movie, but I'm ok with that

 

Edit: To add some substance to this post, I saw Only Lovers Left Alive last night and thought it was great. A for reals good vampire movie, which is hard to come by these days.

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I love that movie ^

I tried to get my partner to watch it yesterday but he disliked how 'emo' everyone was, he wondered where the 'fun' in the movie was that would get him to want to watch it himself, and sympathised

that if he was a bored vampire he'd think about suicide as well

.

As for Theory of Everything being Oscar Bait, may as well say the same of The Imitation Game.

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As for Theory of Everything being Oscar Bait, may as well say the same of The Imitation Game.

 

I would say the same thing of the Imitation Game! I don't know about other folks, though. I'm in the minority amongst my friends for not liking it and thinking it's a little homophobic and offensive, too.

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Yeah, both those movies are generally the exact kind of thing people mean when they refer to oscar bait.

 

I watched Only Lovers Left Alive over the weekend and it is great. It's more a hangout movie than a vampire movie, but I LOVE the idea that all the great artists either were or stole their ideas from vampires. I mean, you have all the free time in the world! Of course you'd be able to learn all kinds of intruments and languages! And the movie was just fucking gorgeous. And Tilda Swinton!  :tup:  :tup:

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Idle Thumbs forums pickin' up what I'm puttin' down

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I watched Only Lovers Left Alive over the weekend and it is great. It's more a hangout movie than a vampire movie, but I LOVE the idea that all the great artists either were or stole their ideas from vampires. I mean, you have all the free time in the world! Of course you'd be able to learn all kinds of intruments and languages! And the movie was just fucking gorgeous. And Tilda Swinton!  :tup:  :tup:

 

Wait, is this like the Daft Punk anime where all of history's greatest musicians were aliens?

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Wait, is this like the Daft Punk anime where all of history's greatest musicians were aliens?

 

Oh goddammit, don't make me want to watch a Daft Punk Anime...

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