Jake

Twin Peaks Rewatch 45: The Return, Part 10

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Did anyone notice if Dougie had cooper's bullet wound? They never showed his body straight on, and I feel like the doctor should have noticed it. If that is coopers body and suit, shouldn't the wound be there? 

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3 hours ago, Crunchnoisy said:

Bandwagon jump: I didn't like this one.

 

It had its moments, but this was almost "get some potatoes" level of unnecessary.

 

Characters are being dragged around by lore, instead of likely motivations.  The plot is piloting the characters.  For the FBI, that's fine, since that's literally their job.

 

But why isn't the TP sheriff's office in full Law-&-Order-mode on The Nameless Kid That Got Run Over, instead of fucking around with mystical Lodge Lore?  Because plot!  And instead, that character runs about and piles up more violence, making TNKTGRO even more exploitive and meaningless.

 

 

I often come back to wondering how the specifics of the edit job we're seeing contribute to these problems. I have to imagine there's another, alt-universe cut of this show that re-orders things and gives more immediate payoff to the kid plotline. I'm almost certain that spinning plate is about to get sucked back into the gravity of the A plot, but the fact that this kid was killed weeks ago and we've gotten, what, three scenes? that even mention it is frustrating. 

 

The whole timeline of this season is super alienating, especially at the pace of the show and watching it week to week. When did Dougie and Ike The Spike face off and we originally saw the crazy local news story on it? Three or four real world weeks ago? Now we finally snap backwards in time to the casino guys who are just seeing this now. It feels like this show is quietly playing with time in a way that isn't fully considered, or, just as likely, we haven't seen the actual reasons yet. 

 

It seems like the Revival will be incredible fodder for re-cuts and fan timelines. The official version is so spaced out. 

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1 hour ago, eronious said:

Not sure how long it will take to get the image of Dougie's 'O' face and flapping arms out of my eyes though. 

I, for one, sick and twisted individual that I am, had been wondering for some weeks what sort of activities might be transpiring in the Jones' bedroom.  Now I'm not quite sure I really wanted to know....(I did laugh out loud, however)

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I loved the last episode, but I'm disappointed with this one. It went heavy on the things I dislike most about the new season: gratuitous violence and an overwhelmingly demeaning treatment of women, especially compared to how interesting the women were in the original.

 

That said, the worst thing about the episode was the Cooper and Janey E scene. Cooper is obviously not capable of consenting at this point, and Janey E knows he's not in his right mind even compared to however actual Dougie behaved, so this was rape. If the same scene was played with the genders swapped, it would have been treated seriously as rape, but since Cooper is a man it was played for laughs and the gravity of it flies over peoples' heads. I suppose it's not impossible that the show could surprise us and actually reflect on this properly in later episodes, but I get the feeling that Janey E and Sonny Jim are being set up to die in the next episode or two, in a 'I'm going to retire to the country after this last fight, and these are my lovely children' sort of way. If they're fridged to wake Cooper I'm gonna be real bummed, although on the other hand I've never liked the Dougie's family storyline. But hopefully it'll surprise me somehow, as it has before.

 

I really enjoyed the casino scenes in this one, although the stuff with Candy seems like yet another instance of this season making women stupid for laughs. Outside of that context, though, I loved the slow, slightly creepy nature of her scenes in this episode. In general, the slowest scenes in this show are turning out to be some of my favorites, like the sweeping the bar scene. I'm not sure how Lynch is managing to make them transfixing rather than boring, but I am transfixed.

 

I thought at first that the casino owners (I don't remember their names...) didn't believe the story about Dougie as bitter enemy, especially since they've met him and also don't trust the messenger. Maybe they're actually gunning for the insurance guy rather than Dougie? I can kind of see their last "fuck with us once, shame on us" conversation as being directed at him rather than Dougie, but on the other hand it looks like they're set up to murder Janey E, and I don't know where the plot would go if they went after the insurance guy instead.

 

I'm also a huge fan of Nadine's drape runner store. That caught me off guard, and I like the perspective it gives the drape runner scenes in the original show. Nobody took her seriously there, but apparently she was something of a kooky but underestimated entrepreneur. I wish we got to see more of Nadine.

 

I hope Lucy retrieves that letter next episode; I got all excited when she was watching Chad, and I thought that she'd confront him about it or contact someone else about it right away. I want to see her being active and competent again.

 

I agree with whoever said that it's weird we're not seeing more investigation of the hit and run.

 

The scene with Albert's date made me smile.

 

I really, really, really hope they don't make Diane a villain. Good Coop has had way too rough a time and needs his friends to be his friends. I'm guessing/hoping she's being threatened by Bad Cooper or something along those lines.

 

I'm curious and excited to see what happens with Jerry in the woods.

 

Also, I want Cooper back yesterday, or at least for him to be re-united with Cole or some of the Twin Peaks people. : ( He's been out of it for way too long for my heart to handle. I feel like we'll get him back soon, maybe, but we're over halfway through now. I'd feel a lot better about it if I knew we were getting a fourth season; I know people say that's unlikely, but I can hope. It has at least exploded Showtime's online service, so maaaaaybe?

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Gerretic said:

 

 

Minor nitpick but I think Albert described her reply as "heavily encrypted."

Maybe I completely misread, but I figured that was just Albert being a sardonic asshole.

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Did Albert seem more unwell in this episode? It seemed like he was short of breath… then I remember the actor passed away recently. I wonder if his scene with Cole in the hotel room was filmed later than his other speaking scenes this season. It was the first time I noticed him appearing frail.

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3 hours ago, Owl said:

That said, the worst thing about the episode was the Cooper and Janey E scene. Cooper is obviously not capable of consenting at this point, and Janey E knows he's not in his right mind even compared to however actual Dougie behaved, so this was rape. If the same scene was played with the genders swapped, it would have been treated seriously as rape, but since Cooper is a man it was played for laughs and the gravity of it flies over peoples' heads.

 

I'm not at all sure we can say that about Dooper.  The moments where we get some sense of his point of view he doesn't seem vacant so much as extremely focused, like he's trying to push through a dense fog in order to form a coherent thought about whatever has his attention and is barely attending to anything else.  The way he thwarted the assassination attempt makes him seem completely capable of putting a stop to something he doesn't consent to.  "Victim?  That guy didn't act like any victim!  He moved like a cobra!"

 

The part I have a really hard time with is understanding Janey's point of view, why she seems so unconcerned about Doogie ignoring her and not speaking to her.  It didn't seem like having sex with him was assault--he enjoyed it as obviously and enthusiastically as he enjoys a piece of cake or a good pee--but I have a hard time believing her desiring and enjoying such a disconnected partner.

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Also did anyone else get the sense that Nadine had her shop window rigged up so with a push of a button she could, whenever the moment was right, part the curtains and reveal her golden shit-shovel?  It reminded me of turning on the Batsignal.  Like she listens to Jacoby's show until she's so filled with righteous indignation that she has to fly her flag of resistance.

 

(Or maybe RUN SILENT, RUN DRAPES is an official retail outlet for Dr. Amp’s Gold Shit-Digging Shovels?)

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4 hours ago, Gerretic said:

 

 

Minor nitpick but I think Albert described her reply as "heavily encrypted."

Hmmm fair point...  Not too encrypted for the feds!

 

Re: Doppelcoop having amassed enough of a fortune to be the 'anonymous billionaire' - maybe he ran around for years robbing banks, as has been suggested, but surely with his magical technology mojo he could probably arrange something easier.

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Even though we've seen him use a bunch of magic technology, I still tend to think of DoppleCoop's capabilities in terms of, "How much power and wealth could Season 1 Dale Cooper accumulate in 25 years if he used all his faculties for evil?" a question that my mind answers with, "I can believe pretty much any amount that the plot asks me to believe."

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3 hours ago, ihateasparagus said:

I, for one, sick and twisted individual that I am, had been wondering for some weeks what sort of activities might be transpiring in the Jones' bedroom.  Now I'm not quite sure I really wanted to know....(I did laugh out loud, however)

 

HIs O face was his coffee face!

 

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4 hours ago, Owl said:

That said, the worst thing about the episode was the Cooper and Janey E scene. Cooper is obviously not capable of consenting at this point, and Janey E knows he's not in his right mind even compared to however actual Dougie behaved, so this was rape. If the same scene was played with the genders swapped, it would have been treated seriously as rape, but since Cooper is a man it was played for laughs and the gravity of it flies over peoples' heads. 

 

I know we're all even-handed Thumbs fans on this forum, but I must critique this one.  Not rape.

 

  • First thing: with rape you cannot, cannot pull the blanket role-reversal straw-man argument.  It does not pan out.  The politics and power structure of sex are simply not reversible - to attempt to do so paves over a lot more problems than it tries to "fix."  This lighthearted and loving interlude works because they are woman and man in their particular, irreversible roles.  Yes, if you reverse it, it would be perverse.  You can't.
  • Point number two: They're Married.  That hardly covers all icky scenarios (TP itself has its share of bad marriage examples), but it certainly knocks down quite a few icky scenarios.  You don't know their sex life -- this fugue state is not new, and may well be how they roll.  You cannot be so quick to judge from outside.
  • And third, and here's the capper: There is obvious love here.  Love. Between these characters. Not rape. Love.

In a world as fucked as the one we live in now, why are you looking so hard for more to be outraged by?

 

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I contend that this is exactly how Cooper would have sex, even outside of his Lodge-induced fog.

 

I am also very pro Cooper being good at absolutely everything without even trying. Seriously, she orgasmed vaginally? Good job, Coop.

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Some random musings: I wonder if Steven was referring to a specific incident when bellowing at Becky that he "knew exactly what she had done", or if it is just part of his horrible internal justification for treating her like that, or just paranoia or an attempted bluff...

 

I wonder how Ben Horne & Beverley's relationship is going to pan out - he is still wearing his wedding ring, but his phone call with Sylvia does not seem like that of a loving, or particularly friendly, couple, and only in its aftermath does he ask Beverley to dinner.  I wonder if Ben is supposed to be trying to keep a failing relationship with Sylvia alive...  This wouldn't seem all that likely by the psychology of original-series Ben Horne (unless she had leverage over him of some kind), but perhaps in his new 'attempting to be a good man' incarnation this is the case. 

 

Film Crit Hulk has done a recap for Vulture this week, it is pretty good:
http://www.vulture.com/2017/07/twin-peaks-the-return-recap-part-10.html
 

If you don't know Film Crit Hulk, he mostly writes for birthmoviesdeath.com and is often worth reading IMO.

 

Re: Dougie's ability to consent...  Well, he does seem to have some agency, in that he reaches for things that interest him and seems to fix his gaze on stuff that is meaningful to him, and occasionally to volunteer information, as when incriminating his co-worker.  It has been pointed out that he was able to defend himself from Ike effectively, and so presumably would be able to fend Janey off if he wanted to.  This argument does rather depend on how much of his self-defense was Goodcoop taking over in a situation of danger (which presumably might not happen with Janey).  He certainly seems happy enough to go along with it once we see his reaction shot, but that does not alter the fact that he may not have known what he was getting into, and thus perhaps could not have consented.  Given we don't see the transition from him eating cake to them having sex, it is hard to know how involved he was, but presumably he just shuffled along where she led him as usual. 

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Quote


I know we're all even-handed Thumbs fans on this forum, but I must call full-stop bullshit on this one.  This reads like Onion satire (if so, well played). 

  • First thing: with rape you cannot, cannot pull the blanket role-reversal straw-man argument.  It does not pan out.  The politics and power structure of sex are simply not reversible - to attempt to do so paves over a lot more problems than it tries to "fix."  This lighthearted and loving interlude works because they are woman and man in their particular, irreversible roles.  Yes, if you reverse it, it would be perverse.  You can't.
  • Point number two: They're Married.  That hardly covers all icky scenarios (TP itself has its share of bad marriage examples), but it certainly knocks down quite a few icky scenarios.  You don't know their sex life -- this fugue state is not new, and may well be how they roll.  You cannot be so quick to judge from outside.
  • And third, and here's the capper: There is obvious love here.  Love. Between these characters. Not rape. Love.

Come off it.  In a world as fucked as the one we live in now, why are you looking so hard for more to be outraged by?

 

 

 

But Janey E is married to Dougie, not Cooper. And in this scenario, Cooper is essentially a mentally disabled adult. Love? How do we know he's even capable of romantic love in his current state? How do we know he even understands that he's 'married' or even knows what marriage is? I think what's unsettling about the scene to me is that, like many other Dougie/Cooper scenes, it plays out as if the other characters don't recognize that he's a complete vegetable. Janey-E is acting like a loving wife who is making consensual love to her husband, but Dougie is essentially a vacant husk who doesn't know what sex is, and is completely incapable of giving consent. For what it's worth, I don't think it's meant to be a lighthearted interlude, and I think Lynch and Frost are completely aware of how uncomfortable it is.

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15 minutes ago, ihavefivehat said:

Dougie is essentially a vacant husk who doesn't know what sex is, and is completely incapable of giving consent.

 

That judgment goes way beyond the information the show has actually given us and I would argue that we've seen several hints that Doogie/Cooper's internal life is actually quite different from what you say here.

 

And I'd also want to strenuously point out that in real life difficulty or inability to communicate should never be assumed to equate with lack of understanding.

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I'm not going to argue that it definitely is rape because we don't really know DougieCoop's internal world for sure yet. But I will say that all it needs to be rape is a lack of consent. Being married, in love or male don't preclude someone from being raped. A man who loves his wife can still be raped by her if she does not have his consent.

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So yeah, did Chad steal the wrong letter?

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46 minutes ago, Kolzig said:

So yeah, did Chad steal the wrong letter?

I don't remember any specific cues that he did, but then he did flip through pretty fast, and I don't think Richard told him the name of the sender, so maybe...

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The name of the Miriam in end credits is different last name than the one on the envelope.

 

Sullivan in end credits and Hedges on the envelope.

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3 minutes ago, Kolzig said:

The name of the Miriam in end credits is different last name than the one on the envelope.

 

Sullivan in end credits and Hedges on the envelope.

Ooh, I didn't spot that - I had just gone back to double check if it was 'Miriam' in both cases, but didn't think to check the credits...

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Posted (edited)

Also I was convinced Audrey would be back this week. Again with the red shoes.

 

Spoiler

I think she's billed down as being in 8 episodes. She MUST be back next week ;_;

edit: actually I just checked imdb again and she's not even on the Twin Peaks cast anymore. I definitely remember seeing her on there down for 8 episodes.

 

Edited by Yuecake

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It kind of bothered me that we got another Jacoby scene, I think the joke would have worked better if it had never been mentioned again.

 

Also, some people are assuming that Janey-E and Sonny Jim are going to die, possibly as the thing that wakes Cooper up, but I didn't get the sense that that's what was being set up here. Every Douggie scene this episode mostly made me sad for Janey-E, since once Cooper wakes up Douggie's never coming back. She won't even get the closure of a funeral, since he won't be dead, he'll just won't exist. Or I guess he kind of exists, as a gold ball in another dimension, but whatever.

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2 hours ago, Yuecake said:

Also I was convinced Audrey would be back this week. Again with the red shoes.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I think IMDB got pre-populated by fans as speculation before the new season aired and then someone (correctly) wiped it right before the premiere and people have been filling it in as the show airs. So any pre-premiere IMDB info shouldn't be trusted. 

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