Zeusthecat Posted February 26, 2016 Oh I saw plenty of condescending and snarky responses to Syntheticgerbil's earlier posts in this thread before it all reached fever pitch. And even though Ninety Three could be a little abrasive at times, he was always dog piled on too. I'm fucking tired of everyone coming into these arguments with their minds already made up. I remain unconvinced by the majority opinion here and was hoping to broaden my perspective. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gormongous Posted February 26, 2016 If anyone's interested in moving beyond anecdote and how they personally pulled themselves up by their bootstraps: http://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/cps/characteristics-of-minimum-wage-workers-2014.pdf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twig Posted February 26, 2016 Again, that's not what happened. What happened is for some reason gerb decided to dig his heels in when people said it's not always easy to find a better job (let alone any job). Then, when provided with a personal experience by a fellow poster - someone who's been around here for a while! - he decided to question actions and assume details of the situation. THAT'S when this thread went to shit. It got weird, gross, and personal in the most uncomfortable way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeusthecat Posted February 26, 2016 That's very informative. Thanks for posting that Gormongous. So it's clear that there is a sizeable percentage of people making less than minimum wage, the vast majority of which have their wages supplemented by tips. What isn't clear though is what the relative turnover rate is for those industries that pay less than minimum wage. In my experience, turnover is very high in the restaurant industry, indicating that the vast majority of that subset of workers are leaving these jobs to find other jobs on a regular basis. I would be curious to see if there is some kind of data to that effect that could quantitatively show roughly how many people are truly stuck in these jobs making less than minimum wage with no way out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
syntheticgerbil Posted February 27, 2016 If anyone's interested in moving beyond anecdote and how they personally pulled themselves up by their bootstraps: http://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/cps/characteristics-of-minimum-wage-workers-2014.pdf It says it doesn't factor in tips or commissions. But I see the info, and I still feel sad for everyone stuck on low pay unskilled work is that minimum wage is so low. Anyway, I'm sorry for getting personal, I'm sorry for assuming about people, and I'm sorry for thinking getting a bad job is that easy. This is not what I've found for bums like myself or people I know but I will concede that of course there are lots of other people out there with situations that are no good because of factors outside of their control. I still stand by all the issues with tipping or not tipping with Favor or Postmates and I probably shouldn't have posted here because a lot of it is venting my frustration not only with the company's pay scheme, but the way the other drivers talk to me in person or on the Facebook group about customers and then dealing with jerky restaurant staff. I just think/thought it's important to note because of the strange way the pay scheme is set up, tipping more does not really change their take home pay and I feel only encourages Favor or Postmates to continue their exploitative business model. I will leave you guys alone now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twig Posted February 27, 2016 Well for what it's worth I'm pretty sure I agree with you about the core of your argument!! Tipping is garbage, and it's the fault of the employers and corporations. But I tip well precisely because I know that, and I try to tip cash as much as I can. I just think it's not cool to assume that because you've had an easy time finding cheap jobs that everyone else will have it easy, too. Especially given all the contrary evidence! That's all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
syntheticgerbil Posted February 27, 2016 Yeah I shouldn't have, I'm sorry. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twig Posted February 27, 2016 Water under the bridge! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vader Posted February 27, 2016 Glad that we seem to have worked through this. Not sure if Zeus was referring to me in their comment about people being snarky and condescending, but if so I am sorry if I came across that way. I try to value the experience everyone brings to the table, even if I strongly disagree. Anyways, wow. So... Postmates Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tabacco Posted February 27, 2016 Several people reported this thread, and normally I'd agree and shut it down, but it looks like we've come to a point of civility again, so I'll leave it open. But seriously, yikes. What a garbage thread in the middle. Be adults, please. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeusthecat Posted March 2, 2016 Glad that we seem to have worked through this. Not sure if Zeus was referring to me in their comment about people being snarky and condescending, but if so I am sorry if I came across that way. I try to value the experience everyone brings to the table, even if I strongly disagree. Anyways, wow. So... Postmates Don't worry about it man. I've just been abnormally frustrated lately and lashed out. I think I'm gonna take a break from posting here for awhile. This place demands such an impeccable level of social awareness and carefully thought out posts and I just don't have the mental fortitude for it lately for a variety of personal reasons I won't go into. Even though I delete about 80% of the posts I start, I feel like those that I do hit the post button on have just been rubbing people the wrong way. Most people here are pretty solid though so it's probably just me. Sorry for the way I acted in this thread. Later. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bjorn Posted March 2, 2016 Don't worry about it man. I've just been abnormally frustrated lately and lashed out. I think I'm gonna take a break from posting here for awhile. This place demands such an impeccable level of social awareness and carefully thought out posts and I just don't have the mental fortitude for it lately for a variety of personal reasons I won't go into. Even though I delete about 80% of the posts I start, I feel like those that I do hit the post button on have just been rubbing people the wrong way. Most people here are pretty solid though so it's probably just me. Sorry for the way I acted in this thread. Later. Hang out in Slack chat with us (if you don't already, I just never see you)! It's much more relaxed, and we make a lot of poop jokes. I've mostly backed off from the serious threads in the forums for now, mostly because I just don't have the time to get into them right now (like I totally missed this whole thing because I wasn't even reading this thread). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dewar Posted March 2, 2016 I've been mainly using this forum to rage about how games are too hard and I don't have patience for them anymore, so I get where you're coming from. Edit: I've been avoiding posting in most of the serious threads around here of late as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris Posted March 3, 2016 As Doug said it seems like this thread has pulled out of its disastrous tailspin, BUT it also seems as though it has taken on a far grander scope than intended, so my recommendation would be that if folks consider starting fresh threads for specific labor- and employment-related topics if they want to continue discussing them, instead of continuing to bolt them on here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IdleBurger Posted July 16, 2016 Im all for tipping, but I have a real problem ordering a meal that costs me $29 and ending up with a $43 bill after everyone has taken their cut of "fees". Plus the driver is already "Tipped" as part of the delivery fee. Its not my job to pay their base salary and tip them at the same time. Postmates can pay them a base salary and give them that 80% of the delivery fee like they currently do. Cheesecake Factory: * Steak Diane* AppetizerTotal: $29.05+Service Fee: $2.62 (what service? Delivery? See next line) +Delivery Fee: $6.00 (postmates driver gets 80% - nearly a $5 tip here already) +Tip: $5.65 Original total: $29.05 New Total: $43.32 Sorry, but that's bullsh*t ...... I dont tip $10.65 on a $29 order. I will however tip $5 on a $29 order just like when Pizza Hut comes to my house. That $5.00 goes to them from the delivery fee. So no more tipping with Postmates.I used to tip. I wont be after this order. Postmates can figure it out with their delivery people. Maybe remove that silly "service fee" and stop calculating my "tip" based on the total after all the fees (sneaky, dishonest) instead of the meal itself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cordeos Posted July 18, 2016 Im all for tipping, but I have a real problem ordering a meal that costs me $29 and ending up with a $43 bill after everyone has taken their cut of "fees". Plus the driver is already "Tipped" as part of the delivery fee. Its not my job to pay their base salary and tip them at the same time. Postmates can pay them a base salary and give them that 80% of the delivery fee like they currently do. Cheesecake Factory: * Steak Diane * Appetizer Total: $29.05 +Service Fee: $2.62 (what service? Delivery? See next line) +Delivery Fee: $6.00 (postmates driver gets 80% - nearly a $5 tip here already) +Tip: $5.65 Original total: $29.05 New Total: $43.32 Sorry, but that's bullsh*t ...... I dont tip $10.65 on a $29 order. I will however tip $5 on a $29 order just like when Pizza Hut comes to my house. That $5.00 goes to them from the delivery fee. So no more tipping with Postmates. I used to tip. I wont be after this order. Postmates can figure it out with their delivery people. Maybe remove that silly "service fee" and stop calculating my "tip" based on the total after all the fees (sneaky, dishonest) instead of the meal itself. Whats bullshit is companies relying on the tip economy to subsidize a poverty wage. Your meal would cost about the same if the staff made a living wage, so help out your fellow human by paying them a little bit? As for delivery people figuring it out with postmate I would refer you to the current state of unions in this country (under attack from the right wing media and governments) and the power disparities between corporations and employees which are amplified by the gig economy things like Uber and Postmates relies on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ben X Posted July 18, 2016 Just a reminder of where this thread ended up previously: Several people reported this thread, and normally I'd agree and shut it down, but it looks like we've come to a point of civility again, so I'll leave it open. But seriously, yikes. What a garbage thread in the middle. Be adults, please. As Doug said it seems like this thread has pulled out of its disastrous tailspin, BUT it also seems as though it has taken on a far grander scope than intended, so my recommendation would be that if folks consider starting fresh threads for specific labor- and employment-related topics if they want to continue discussing them, instead of continuing to bolt them on here. EVERYONE BE CALM AND POLITE IF THIS THREAD IS GOING TO START UP AGAIN PLEASE Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twig Posted July 18, 2016 I highly doubt that would happen again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites