Binding of Isaac: Rebirth

[Problem Machine]

wat

[Gaizokubanou]

Tegan I think you are reading way too into that if that read as a very specific jab at "SJW" instead of poking fun at Nintendo.

[jennegatron]

No, parts of that definitely reek of 'SJW' criticisms like changing the race of a character to make it more diverse or the fat acceptance 'joke.'

Some of the other parts, like the pills being replaced as lollipops could certainly be making fun of Nintendo, but on the whole it definitely reads like it's complaining about SJW and so called 'pc' culture.

[Gormongous]

Tegan I think you are reading way too into that if that read as a very specific jab at "SJW" instead of poking fun at Nintendo.

 

That may have been McMillen's intent, but he's definitely mocking anyone sensitive to anything in his game. At the very least, ridiculing trigger warnings (at length) is not targeted at Nintendo or even at game companies in general, because none of them know (let alone care) what a trigger warning is.

 

I never had a problem with motifs or themes in Binding of Isaac because I thought McMillen was very clear that this was a personal work done to exorcise his own demons. To see him so unsympathetic that some people find his offensive game offensive, without any apparent awareness that his demons might be shared by other people and therefore might upset them, makes me like it and him a lot less.

 

 

EDIT: Also, what Jennegatron said. He puts racial diversity, crisis hotlines, fat acceptance, slut shaming, and trigger warnings on blast. The one instance of mocking people who are offended by Isaac maybe being something other than straight hardly counterbalances a screed overwhelming directed at issues of social justice, about which Nintendo cares not at all.

[Gaizokubanou]

Hmm, you guys are probably right then.  The jab was probably at 'PC culture' at large.

 

Edit: But on topic of BoI specifically... I'm having hard time summoning sympathy for those who are offended by this hyper fantastical fiction, so I'm just having harder time viewing this jab in the negative as you guys are.

[Merus]

this just in: McMillen edgy for edgy's sake, willing to pretend to be a thoughtful artist when it suits him, full report in tonight's bulletin

 

edit: Tyrone Rodriguez is saying that the Nintendo Binding of Isaac isn't changed from other platforms. Still happy with throwing Edmund McMillen under the bus

[Twig]

this just in: McMillen edgy for edgy's sake, willing to pretend to be a thoughtful artist when it suits him, full report in tonight's bulletin

 

edit: Tyrone Rodriguez is saying that the Nintendo Binding of Isaac isn't changed from other platforms. Still happy with throwing Edmund McMillen under the bus

What indication has there been of this in the past?

[Twig]

Hmm, you guys are probably right then.  The jab was probably at 'PC culture' at large.

 

Edit: But on topic of BoI specifically... I'm having hard time summoning sympathy for those who are offended by this hyper fantastical fiction, so I'm just having harder time viewing this jab in the negative as you guys are.

That note at the bottom is undeniably absolutely 100% not just targeted at people who dislike the game.

 

Like who the fuck has ever associated BoI with trigger warnings before, besides people for whom that actually matters, aka "SJWs"? You're ignoring a lot of the subtext - and just plain ol' text - in that post. BoI has gotten a virtually free pass compared to most other games that would touch on even a single instance of all that shit. He's not responding to an onslaught of complaints. He's passive-aggressively attacking people who have legitimate issues.

[Bjorn]

Having read the interviews and stuff where McMillen talked about his grandmother, his parents and the differences between her Catholicism and their Evangelicalism, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt that this was just a poorly thought out April Fool's Joke.  I disagree with Merus, I've never had the perception of him being edgy for edgy sake, and just pretending to be a thoughtful, but severely broken in some ways, person. 

 

Yes, it's a shitty paragraph, and worth criticizing him for.  But I don't see how one April Fool's joke is enough to have me radically reverse the opinions I have of him. 

[Gaizokubanou]

That note at the bottom is undeniably absolutely 100% not just targeted at people who dislike the game.

 

Like who the fuck has ever associated BoI with trigger warnings before, besides people for whom that actually matters, aka "SJWs"? You're ignoring a lot of the subtext - and just plain ol' text - in that post. BoI has gotten a virtually free pass compared to most other games that would touch on even a single instance of all that shit. He's not responding to an onslaught of complaints. He's passive-aggressively attacking people who have legitimate issues.

 

If BoI isn't associated with all those issues due to it being hyper fantastical, then how can it get a 'free pass' from those topics?

 

And besides you don't think trolls troll people using those topics?  For example, fat shaming is real and I get that but some assholes would use that pretense to troll you.  I had people giving me shit for explaining to another willing participant to a conversation about weight loss how I lost weight because they claimed I was contributing to fat shaming culture by doing something other than trying to tell them that they are perfect the way they are... Yeah that makes zero sense.  They still trolled us with it.  Same deal as how 'freedom of speech' is so commonly used by trolls, good legit causes get hijacked all the time (not as commonly as 'freedom of speech' of course cause that one is just really easy to abuse).

 

I obviously don't have access to McMillen's personal inbox and whatnot but given his fame and the game's subject matter (regardless of how not grounded they are to reality) it shouldn't surprise any of us if he were to get lot of those trolls, enough to make it understandable that he would think that this crude April Fools joke was a good idea.

[Twig]

What?

 

There's a lot of shit in BoI that is offensive, and it's undeniably offensive, and it's definitely associated with all those issues, and being "hyper fantastical" doesn't change that in the slightest. Despite that, it got a free pass. And that despite that free pass, he's taken the time to write a paragraph intentionally mocking the people who are legitimately affected or bothered by those things.

[Gaizokubanou]

There's a lot of shit in BoI that is offensive, and it's undeniably offensive, and it's definitely associated with all those issues,

 

I'm not posing this as a facetious question... could you point those out cause I'm just completely blind to it in this specific game due to its super fantasy-ness.  It's so far removed from reality not just in setting (certainly futuristic sci fi or standard fantasy fictions can be offensive) but the world logic is also so unreal (you can cut your own head off to fly) that I can't see anything in it demeaning anyone.

[N1njaSquirrel]

I'm not posing this as a facetious question... could you point those out cause I'm just completely blind to it in this specific game due to its super fantasy-ness.  It's so far removed from reality not just in setting (certainly futuristic sci fi or standard fantasy fictions can be offensive) but the world logic is also so unreal (you can cut your own head off to fly) that I can't see anything in it demeaning anyone.

 

This video has a pretty consise explanation of the lore and world, and gets into some of the religion aspect. The vid was also endorsed by edmund himself. Check it out, it might help:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=avCB6HOjsG4

 

his comment from his site:

i enjoy stuff like this, there are times when i think im only putting these themes/stories/whatever you wanna call em i my work for myself and there really arent many out there that care to think about them enough to pick them apart and “solve the puzzle”, nice to know these people do exist.

that isnt to say this video shares the same vision i did when designing isaac, but most of it feels like it was ripped from my brain.

its easy to disregard isaac as shock schlock, edgy, pee pee poo poo humor that does nothing more than get weird.. and thats fine because in some ways its all those things.. but that doesnt take away from the games message or intent.

enjoy the vid and thanks for thinking!

[Gaizokubanou]

I actually saw that video few weeks ago!

 

But I'm just failing to find things in it as offensive... like they are 'lewd' or 'dirty' things in the game, but I think more is required for something to be offensive otherwise my bathroom after I do my 2 would be one really offensive locale.

[Griddlelol]

That video makes me feel like the game is a hell of a lot less offensive than I originally assumed. I'm leaning towards Gaizo's view: what exactly is offensive about BoI? And if there is anything offensive in it, why is that a problem?

[mikemariano]

Last night I finally beat every boss with every (not hard to unlock) character!  I love you, Blue Baby!

 

I have three tearless challenges I just haven't gotten any better at completing: Solar System, Cat Got Your Tongue, and Beans!  Is there any good advice for conserving bombs or flinging a hairball around?

[undermind9]

Afterbirth is on pre-order for Oct 30 release

 

In a clever bit of pre-order sale they knock off 39% the price for owning Rebirth - bringing it to $6.66

 

 

What is unfortunate, and probably a red-tape mess with NoA - but there is no cross buy with the Wii-U release, or even a discount - I am still extremely tempted to get on the wii-u for TV play...but i think Steam-Link is going to be the solution in the near future 

[mikemariano]

Curse of the Blind

Curse Room

Dead Cat

 

I had forgotten how cruel this game could be!

 

Only two more days until some all-new torture.

[atte]

Afterbirth is out today!

I've played Isaac since the original came out, and still loving it. I even stubbornly grinded out the real platinum god this summer (#humblebrag).
It's funny that when a lot of the criticism about BoI I see is "It's too obscure/doesn't explain things", I am now super excited to once again get totally baffled by the new stuff.

[Bjorn]

I got in one game last night before we had to go out for the evening.  I tried the new Greed mode with Samson.  It's neat!  Rather than exploring a level, it's a series of levels centered around a horde mode of 8 waves.  Samson just destroyed it, but he ended up with some solid early items as well.  The final boss is brutal though, the biggest damage sink of a boss that I've ever seen in Isaac.  I didn't get any of the new items though.  I did see 2 for sale in the store, but didn't have the money for them. 

[undermind9]

Super greed felt as spongey as mega Satan. If I didn't have dead bird and yellow fly probably wouldn't have killed it. I love the coin mechanic of the fight (keys, bombs, etc) and less damage take more coins have to deposit to the greed machine (function? Can't wait to find out)

Greed mode with Azazel gives Lilith character, which was also yesterday's daily challenge

On the daily - I wonder if it opens all possible items, or just sets a seed and lets the item pool randomize. The scoring is neat, get points for progress and negative points for time, damage, and items

[Bjorn]

Was the thing with mystery bags dropping in the daily normal to the daily, or a function of one of the starting items?  It ended up making the challenge super easy to complete, I got a CAH card, filled a big room with poop, got a poop trinket and then like 20 of those mystery bags dropped, so I was rolling in keys, money and bombs before I was even out of the first level.  My time was ass though, as I messed around a bunch. 

 

Super Greed is a definite sponge, but I did beat him with Azazel today, got some of the bomb upgrades that make the bomb shoot out the same as your shot (so it's brimstone), and a few of those just torched him in no time.  Saving up money for the Greed machine is definitely worth it. 

[Veer3]

Just played a couple rounds of greed mode. 

 

From what I could tell, greed mode basically condensed and enhanced all the floor-by-floor resource management into only a couple of rooms. I spent a lot less time just going through the motions of killing and dodging, and (when I started as Isaac) more time trying to figure out what order to D6. I got to try a couple of the new items, but once I got mom's knife, what I had didn't mesh with it. 

 

Super Greed was interesting cuz with mom's knife there was plenty of time in his attack string to just sit near him and have the knife deal damage. I agree, a major sponge. The animation style is also much younger to me than Rebirth generally was. 

[Gaizokubanou]

Yeah because of that condense style, I'm having a hard time going back to regular mode now haha

[Deadpan]

Was the thing with mystery bags dropping in the daily normal to the daily, or a function of one of the starting items?  It ended up making the challenge super easy to complete, I got a CAH card, filled a big room with poop, got a poop trinket and then like 20 of those mystery bags dropped, so I was rolling in keys, money and bombs before I was even out of the first level.  My time was ass though, as I messed around a bunch.

 

I watched a video of somebody playing that daily and that's basically what happened there too. I think it's because one of the starting items, Sack Head or something like that. I encountered it in one of my runs, it gives you that paper bag over the head look and seems to drastically increase the amount of mystery bags you get (and holy hell the amount of batteries you get with those is absurd).

 

Was this update meant to reset saves or is that just my experience? Anyway, on my second run I encountered a big new boss on a different path out of the womb, and managed to beat him on my third. Pretty neat so far.