Star Wars VII - Open spoilers

[Badfinger]

Because instead of a cool magic explanation it has a boring science explanation?

 

They have to use to force to make it, though. It's part of becoming a jedi!

[Twig]

They have to use to force to make it, though. It's part of becoming a jedi!

According to SAM's explanation, they only have to use force to add "weight" to (or at least, to provide the user the, whatever, the skill to use) the lasers during a fight. Either way, having to use the force to make it, but not to use it, means that requiring the force to make it is essentially meaningless. Who cares how it's made? We're watch laser sword fights in space. I'm only interested in what's used to justify how the swords are used, and whether or not the swords are malleable, because if they are, then suddenly they're a whole lot more open to Rad Shit within the awkward lore.

[Griddlelol]

The "blade" of the lightsaber is high energy plasma held within a containment field.  The reason that lightsabers can come in "contact" with each other is the fields are repelling each other.  A similar principle applies to lasers from a blaster.  Using a lightsaber doesn't require the Force at all, but using one effectively would.  The reason for this is because the blade is pure energy, it has no mass.  All the mass is in the hilt.  Therefore it doesn't act like a real sword does.  

 

I don't get it, surely "containment field" suggests the laser - as in the damaging part - is well...contained. How on earth does that work? It just sounds like a bullshit explanation some nerd came up with for a cool laser sword.

 

I also thought that the blades were meant to be incredibly heavy. Which is why George Lucas had Luke, Ben and Vader fight like they were swinging some massive weight, rather than a weightless sword. 

 

It bugs me when people use technical details to try to understand Star Wars. The whole point is that it's science fantasy, who cares how a TIE fighter flies, or why it makes noise in space? It looks and sounds badass. Who cares where the space wizaaaaaaaards get their power from? Tiny microbes that sound like mitochondria and chloroplasts squashed into one word isn't interesting or entertaining. 

 

Star Trek is about that stuff, which is a great show in its own, separate way. Conflating the two makes them both worse. 

[SecretAsianMan]

I don't get it, surely "containment field" suggests the laser - as in the damaging part - is well...contained. How on earth does that work? It just sounds like a bullshit explanation some nerd came up with for a cool laser sword.

 

I also thought that the blades were meant to be incredibly heavy. Which is why George Lucas had Luke, Ben and Vader fight like they were swinging some massive weight, rather than a weightless sword. 

 

There actually are "answers" to those questions but they involve the additional nonsense I didn't get into before.  At the end of the day, it is of course a bullshit explanation because someone felt compelled to try and justify their existence.  I didn't personally make any of this up, it's just stuff I happen to know because I got bored one day and instead of browsing around on Wikipedia I somehow ended up on Wookieepedia.

 

In case someone does want to know the additional nonsense

When the lightsaber makes contact with matter, the containment field causes resistance which makes the blade portion feel solid while cutting.  The containment field keeps the plasma from shooting out infinitely and also causes it to loop back into the hilt and complete a circuit.  The blade actually consumes no power until it makes contact with matter because of this loop.

 

The reason that sabers feel heavy is because of the gyroscopic forces from the electromagnetic fields generated.  While the blade itself is massless, the gyroscopic forces do mean that a good deal of strength is required to use the blade effectively.  It also means that the blade doesn't move like a normal sword since it is subjected to forces not present in a metal blade.

 

I swear I didn't make all this up.  Someone else made all this up.

[Griddlelol]

I swear I didn't make all this up.  Someone else made all this up.

 

I believe you! Although it doesn't explain how the beam cuts while being in a containment field. Not that I want to know, since it destroys why Star Wars is great. 

 

I too have browsed Wookiepedia, but I'm normally disgusted at how people are just missing the point of Star Wars. No technology needs an explanation, as long as it is internally consistent.

This is why a "light-whip" is dumb. It's also why the "light-hilt" is dumb. 

[Twig]

No technology needs an explanation, as long as it is internally consistent.

This is why a "light-whip" is dumb. It's also why the "light-hilt" is dumb.

Of course you realize these two lines are incredibly contradictory. The former is exactly why the latter SHOULD happen.

Bunch o' nerds ruining the potential of star wars grumble grumble

[Akidu]

10 year old me (that tried to make a lightsaber out of tinfoil and LEDs) is resurfacing to say that scifi pseudo scientific explanations are awesome. 

Current me says I would be okay with the broad saber if the crossguard wasn't so exposed. 

 

Also could there be a lightsaber net? It would be pretty brutal. 

[Henroid]

I'm okay with the explanation behind lightsabers because it still seems pretty vague. It's the explanation about what the Force is that drove me crazy. Lucas got some Star Trek all over Star Wars when he did that move.

[Griddlelol]

Of course you realize these two lines are incredibly contradictory. The former is exactly why the latter SHOULD happen.

Bunch o' nerds ruining the potential of star wars grumble grumble

 

How are they contradictory?

 

In Star Wars, people use swords made out of light. They cut shit. They don't flop (a floppy cutting tool would be more than useless), they don't skid down each other - if anything they appear to get stuck on each other. A light sabre existing the way it does in the movies, rules out a whip, and also renders the need for a hilt pointless. They got along fine without them for XXXX years, why suddenly do they need protection that they've never needed before?

[Twig]

You're getting it all wrong. The justification for laser swords is that they're cool. That's it. That's what star wars is about.

The justification for everything else is that it's even cooler.

Also who are you to say the hilt doesn't have its own containment field?

You said no tech needs explanation as long as it's consistent. But this is about more than technology. This is also about magic. Space magic. There's a large amount of magic shit that would make anything work.

[Bjorn]

lightwhips4ever

lightwhipjediraveparty \o/

[Griddlelol]

You're getting it all wrong. The justification for laser swords is that they're cool. That's it. That's what star wars is about.

The justification for everything else is that it's even cooler.

Also who are you to say the hilt doesn't have its own containment field?

You said no tech needs explanation as long as it's consistent. But this is about more than technology. This is also about magic. Space magic. There's a large amount of magic shit that would make anything work.

 

A whip isn't cool because it makes no sense. A whip isn't used for cutting, so why it is made out of the same stuff that's used for cutting? That's lacking internal consistency.

 

A hilt isn't cool when made out of a blade. The whole point of a hilt is to protect. Adding blades does the exact opposite, which is why it's dumb and not cool. It's even less cool when it is controlled separately from the main blade. It has no purpose, making it not cool.

 

You know what is cool? A fucking walking tank that looks like a metal cow and shoots lasers. Walking chicken tanks are also cool, because they look fast, agile and killed a bunch of teddy bears. 

You know what's also cool? Space smugglers and galactic princesses battling their way out of a space fort shaped like a small moon with a giant laser that can destroy a planet. Oh, and big hairy people who you can't understand. They're pretty cool too. 

 

Actually, I'm going to come out and say it. Jedis are the least cool part of Star Wars (which is a major reason why the prequels sucked because there's not a scene without someone swinging a light sabre around). 

[Twig]

Why can't a whip be used for cutting?

[JonCole]

I don't really think the makes sense = cool thing holds up. How many people lost their shit when Darth Maul lit up his double-ended lightsaber? Every instinct in me says that two lightsabers would make more sense than that, but nobody is going to lose it watching that.

 

TIE fighters and interceptors are cool, but make no sense. Their design makes them really fragile.

 

The Death Star is cool but makes no sense. It's an enormous cost to the point where The Empire could barely afford it and it's far from invulnerable, but damn if its cool.

[Griddlelol]

Why can't a whip be used for cutting?

 

Try using a cheese wire to cut cheese without pulling it taut. It doesn't work. A whip has the same issue. 

 

 

I don't really think the makes sense = cool thing holds up. How many people lost their shit when Darth Maul lit up his double-ended lightsaber? Every instinct in me says that two lightsabers would make more sense than that, but nobody is going to lose it watching that.

 

TIE fighters and interceptors are cool, but make no sense. Their design makes them really fragile.

 

The Death Star is cool but makes no sense. It's an enormous cost to the point where The Empire could barely afford it and it's far from invulnerable, but damn if its cool.

 

Ignoring the prequels...

 

TIE and Death Star make perfect sense when taken together. They hight light the complete disdain the Empire has for life.

[SecretAsianMan]

A hilt isn't cool when made out of a blade. The whole point of a hilt is to protect. Adding blades does the exact opposite, which is why it's dumb and not cool. It's even less cool when it is controlled separately from the main blade. It has no purpose, making it not cool.

 

I'm going to be a pedantic asshole and say that the whole point of the hilt is to be a handle for the blade.  The crossguard is part of the hilt, but so is the pommel (which lightsabers lack) and grip.

 

Also if you're trying for internal consistency and logical sense in Star Wars, you are barking up the wrong tree.

[Twig]

It's a whip made of lasers though. What's the problem, exactly?

[JonCole]

Try using a cheese wire to cut cheese without pulling it taut. It doesn't work. A whip has the same issue. 

 

What if the cheese wire was heated to something like 10,000º C? I feel like it'd work.

[Griddlelol]

Also if you're trying for internal consistency and logical sense in Star Wars, you are barking up the wrong tree.

 

You're probably right...

 

And no, it wouldn't work. A sword won't cut unless you apply pressure, just like a whip would either need to be rubbed against the material ineffectually, or continually cracked against it - but that has issue of a complete lack of accuracy (but...the force, although the force hasn't really been shown to be effective on a minute spacial and temporal scale like that (but...the force)) and nothing much more than surface damage rather than penetrating the intended target like a sword would. 

[Bjorn]

That'd make it a cheese vaporizer.

 

You could smoke cheese.

 

Vapin' with cheese. 

[Twig]

Laser swords cut through anything, though (except other laser swords Because Logic??). Ergo...

[SecretAsianMan]

I think what Twig and JonCole are getting at is a light_____ isn't a thing that follows the same rules as a real sword or whip.  It's made of energy that "cuts" through any matter, regardless of what shape it's in.  Lightsabers have no cutting edge but will still slice anything.  A lightwhip would behave the same way.

 

Now if you want to argue that the whip wouldn't work because of the need to have a rapidly varying containment field...

[SecretAsianMan]

Upon further research (I don't know why I keep looking this shit up, please somebody stop me!) the lightwhip doesn't function as a single blade like a lightsaber does.  Instead it appears to have a bunch of segmented projectors that create a bunch of mini blades, the result of which is a whip-like thing.

 

[Twig]

YES!!!!!!!!!

[Griddlelol]

Lol ok, that's pretty cool.

My aversion is mainly because I think Jedi are only cool when they're mysterious space wizards. I was going to comment on how the original Star Wars trailer didn't even show a light sabre (which is doesn't) but wow, old trailers are so different to modern ones. They're really shitty.