BigJKO

A Dedicated Thread For Talking About Star Trek Episodes

Recommended Posts

They don't get much more developed. The general level of quality does significantly improve by, like, season 5, but they never really go anywhere with most of the characters. Chakotay and Kim are super boring forever.

 

I'm very slowly progressing through Enterprise; I'm maybe a quarter of the way through season 3. It's a lot like Voyager in that even when it manages to be pretty OK, it still has so much obvious wasted potential.

 

In the case of Voyager, it's ridiculous how much promise there is in certain aspects of the premise. A crew that's half unproven cadets and half insurgents who have to learn to work together? Sounds dope. And then most of that conflict is resolved immediately, only to be paid lip-service periodically thereafter. 

 

And Enterprise throws out some interesting ideas. You've got these people flying around in this fancy ship that trivializes interstellar travel in a setting where a whole economy exists around slow ass space boats. In TOS and TNG they're always running into goofy-ass colonies; Enterprise could be digging into the idea of an expanding human frontier.

 

If you're going to do a prequel to TOS, maybe you can explain where all those miners and space farmers came from.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cordeos   
39 minutes ago, Salacious Snake said:

They don't get much more developed. The general level of quality does significantly improve by, like, season 5, but they never really go anywhere with most of the characters. Chakotay and Kim are super boring forever.

 

I'm very slowly progressing through Enterprise; I'm maybe a quarter of the way through season 3. It's a lot like Voyager in that even when it manages to be pretty OK, it still has so much obvious wasted potential.

 

In the case of Voyager, it's ridiculous how much promise there is in certain aspects of the premise. A crew that's half unproven cadets and half insurgents who have to learn to work together? Sounds dope. And then most of that conflict is resolved immediately, only to be paid lip-service periodically thereafter. 

 

And Enterprise throws out some interesting ideas. You've got these people flying around in this fancy ship that trivializes interstellar travel in a setting where a whole economy exists around slow ass space boats. In TOS and TNG they're always running into goofy-ass colonies; Enterprise could be digging into the idea of an expanding human frontier.

 

If you're going to do a prequel to TOS, maybe you can explain where all those miners and space farmers came from.

Kim never getting promoted during all 7 seasons is sad, but kind of hilarious

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Cordeos said:

Kim never getting promoted during all 7 seasons is sad, but kind of hilarious

 

It became enough of a thing among the producers that they basically decided to keep him an ensign forever, except Timeless where they make him an admiral as a joke.

 

Actually, that's a good way of explaining where Voyager went wrong with its characterization... An ambitious and talented ensign whose career is derailed by the extraordinary circumstances of his ship becomes a running joke rather than a chance for character development.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had also heard tell that the fact that the actor was not very well liked had something to do with it...

 

Voyager characterisation is definitely a "favourite children" crapshoot. The Doctor and Seven get all kinds of evolution, while other members of the main cast never do. The only reason this never bothered me is they were my favourites too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
eot   

Kim does have a few good episodes, Timeless like already mentioned, but I also like The Chute. I'll take him over Chakotay any day.

 

@TheLastBaron

There's an episode guide to Voyager posted somewhere in this thread, if you get bored with Season 1 I recommend following that and just watching the highlights instead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, eot said:

Kim does have a few good episodes, Timeless like already mentioned, but I also like The Chute. I'll take him over Chakotay any day.

 

@TheLastBaron

There's an episode guide to Voyager posted somewhere in this thread, if you get bored with Season 1 I recommend following that and just watching the highlights instead.

 

Here's the Voyager episode list I compiled earlier in this thread.  A few people added some more if you keep reading.

 

I felt a certain sympathy for Kim if for no other fact than he was Asian.  There were a few jokes made about the fact that he was a perpetual ensign (such as what Gorm mentioned above and another episode where Tom Paris is promoted and Kim jokes he didn't see a box on his console).  I also liked his friendship with Tom, but I was more than a little annoyed that he often defaulted to the sidekick role.

 

I agree that for the most part Chakotay was boring.  The actor that played him was really outspoken during the show's run about how displeased he was with his character's development.  The most egregious example I can think of is a later season episode that starts with the crew discovering an old Mars mission shuttle and Chakotay is all excited because he's supposedly really into that part of history.  Except ten minutes in he gets sidelined due to an injury and all the character development goes to Seven.  The only Star Trek book I've ever read was a Voyager one and it mostly starred Chakotay.  It was probably the most development on his character I've seen and it completely doesn't matter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Gwardinen said:

Voyager characterisation is definitely a "favourite children" crapshoot. The Doctor and Seven get all kinds of evolution, while other members of the main cast never do. The only reason this never bothered me is they were my favourites too.

 

1 hour ago, SecretAsianMan said:

I felt a certain sympathy for Kim if for no other fact than he was Asian.  There were a few jokes made about the fact that he was a perpetual ensign (such as what Gorm mentioned above and another episode where Tom Paris is promoted and Kim jokes he didn't see a box on his console).  I also liked his friendship with Tom, but I was more than a little annoyed that he often defaulted to the sidekick role.

 

I agree that for the most part Chakotay was boring.  The actor that played him was really outspoken during the show's run about how displeased he was with his character's development.  The most egregious example I can think of is a later season episode that starts with the crew discovering an old Mars mission shuttle and Chakotay is all excited because he's supposedly really into that part of history.  Except ten minutes in he gets sidelined due to an injury and all the character development goes to Seven.  The only Star Trek book I've ever read was a Voyager one and it mostly starred Chakotay.  It was probably the most development on his character I've seen and it completely doesn't matter.

 

I think the "favorite son" dynamic that badly sidelined some characters (mostly Kim and Chakotay) and gave others (mostly Seven and the Doctor) lavish attention was created, as has been said before, by Berman's hands-off role as lead executive producer and the turnover of showrunners every couple of seasons. Piller ran the first two seasons of TNG, DS9, and VOY, and his focus on monsters or technobabble of the week means that Janeway, Tuvok, Paris, and B'Elanna get all the development. Jeri Taylor takes over and suddenly it's the Maquis crew with all the airtime (except Chakotay, because who knows what to do with him). And we all know about Brannon Braga and his sexy robot girlfriend Seven of Nine...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At least with the Doctor it felt somewhat organic, as he'd been around, and he was a likeable character from the start. The way Seven swoops in and becomes the main character is so bananas. I mean, they did some good stuff with her, and Jeri Ryan is a treasure. She can definitely carry the weight, including delivering all of that undeliverable Star Trek dialog (with which Voyager is by far the worst offender).

 

But it really felt like the dungeon master's favorite character suddenly appearing as an NPC and dominating your campaign.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, SecretAsianMan said:

I felt a certain sympathy for Kim if for no other fact than he was Asian. 

I have a co-worker I talk to a lot about Star Trek, he's actually the one who got me to watch DS9 and Voyager after only ever watching TNG (and TOS) multiple times.  He's talked about how big of a deal it was for him (as a Chinese guy) just to have a Chinese guy in Star Trek finally in Voyager.

 

Thanks for the episode list, I'm planning on just watching every episode, but I'll keep it handy so if there's an episode I'm really not digging I can see if there's a reason to stick around or if I'm safe skipping to the next one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, TheLastBaron said:

I have a co-worker I talk to a lot about Star Trek, he's actually the one who got me to watch DS9 and Voyager after only ever watching TNG (and TOS) multiple times.  He's talked about how big of a deal it was for him (as a Chinese guy) just to have a Chinese guy in Star Trek finally in Voyager.

 

As a person of Chinese decent myself I can completely understand that position.  I just wish Kim evolved more beyond the eager beaver.

 

1 hour ago, Salacious Snake said:

At least with the Doctor it felt somewhat organic, as he'd been around, and he was a likeable character from the start. The way Seven swoops in and becomes the main character is so bananas. I mean, they did some good stuff with her, and Jeri Ryan is a treasure. She can definitely carry the weight, including delivering all of that undeliverable Star Trek dialog (with which Voyager is by far the worst offender).

 

But it really felt like the dungeon master's favorite character suddenly appearing as an NPC and dominating your campaign.

 

The Doctor and Seven are great characters, but they're also a little too easy since they both start as blank slates so you can graft whatever personality you want onto them, much like Data was often used as the vehicle to discuss human nature.  In this way I admire DS9 for not having a literally emotionless character yet still doing a lot character-wise (one could argue that Odo is pretty stiff but he's not physically incapable of it in the same way that Data, the Doctor, and Seven are).

 

Also Jeri Ryan is a treasure.  I'm bothered when she doesn't get her due credit as an actress and is written off as eye candy.  Although dressing her in nothing but skintight outfits doesn't exactly help that cause...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm watching the DS9 episode where they go onto the original Enterprise with a lot of TOS footage and this is an enjoyable episode.  The stuff about the Klingons that no one recognizes as Klingons and Worf just says 'It's a long story, we don't talk about it with outsiders" and that's the end of that was great. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh hell yeah, Trials and Tribble-ations is one of those things that seems like it should be a shitshow on paper, but they pulled it off so well! I mean, the visual effects alone are awesome for 20 year old TV, but they also managed to cobble together a good, fun show around the concept. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now