Idle Thumbs 109: Prepare for the Jelly

[Jake]

Idle Thumbs 109:

 

 

Prepare for the Jelly

Nick, can you handle this? Chris, can you handle this? Sean, can you handle this? I don't think they can handle this.

 

Things Discussed: The Swapper, Gunpoint, Metro: Last Light

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[zerofiftyone]

Awesome! Before I start to listen to this I'd just like to commend the person who wrote the description text for this week's cast. Upon getting the reference, it made me laugh and inadvertently spill my drink all over my desk.

[Jake]

It was Sean!

[elmuerte]

awesome... going to listen to it while I set things on fire

[SecretAsianMan]

I can't wait to hear thoughts about The Swapper, especially since I can't play it.

[melmer]

Finally! An episode of idle thumbs I can twerk to

[dibs]

Awesome! Before I start to listen to this I'd just like to commend the person who wrote the description text for this week's cast. Upon getting the reference, it made me laugh and inadvertently spill my drink all over my desk.

I got it at jelly. I probably use that line to much in common parlance.

[Salacious Snake]

I like the returning conversation about perfunctory design elements (good way to put it, Sean). During the previous discussion, I was thinking about first-person shooters.

The rampancy of crouching is absurd. It almost never serves a purpose. When I go back and play the original Quake, I never miss the ability to crouch, because it wouldn't add anything. See also: "iron sights" in many cases.

These things do have their place. Crouching is great for lowering your profile in Arma, for instance, but in faster paced arena shooters, it's stupid.

[BarshSmash]

I just got as far as this before hitting pause.

 

Nick, re: Metro: Last Light: "There's this specific level... and I'm just going to spoil it, because otherwise I have nothing to talk about."

 

wat.

[Sean]

I just got as far as this before hitting pause.

 

Nick, re: Metro: Last Light: "There's this specific level... and I'm just going to spoil it, because otherwise I have nothing to talk about."

 

wat.

 

What's the problem? He doesn't spoil a plot element and having not played Metro Last Light, what he talked about made me want to buy it.

[Salacious Snake]

Don't worry, it's not the Shyamalanesque twist at the end of the game.

[Twig]

The rampancy of crouching is absurd. It almost never serves a purpose. When I go back and play the original Quake, I never miss the ability to crouch, because it wouldn't add anything. See also: "iron sights" in many cases.

I don't think it's fair to compare crouching and iron sights. While you may not care about them, for me, they add another layer of immersion when I'm staring down the sights of a rifle. I love that feeling. It's fantastic. I would welcome it in literally any [non-arcadey/non-super-gamey] FPS.

 

Crouching, on the other hand, is something that really only needs to exist for gameplay reasons.

 

It's possible I misunderstood what you were trying to say, though, reading it again. If so, I apologize!

[BarshSmash]

What's the problem? He doesn't spoil a plot element and having not played Metro Last Light, what he talked about made me want to buy it.

The way it was brought up made it sound significant enough to be an actual spoiler. (Plus he said "spoil"). After the Escape from the Mysterious Room fiasco, I'm wary Returning to receiving of casting of pod now.

[Salacious Snake]

I don't think it's fair to compare crouching and iron sights. While you may not care about them, for me, they add another layer of immersion when I'm staring down the sights of a rifle. I love that feeling. It's fantastic. I would welcome it in literally any [non-arcadey/non-super-gamey] FPS.

 

Crouching, on the other hand, is something that really only needs to exist for gameplay reasons.

I can get down with that. The problem is that people put these things in their games because it's just what you do. If the designers are attempting to create immersion, then putting in iron sights in service of that goal is perfectly reasonable. (It's also good to have a little zoom in games in which you're dealing with large engagement ranges, and it can signal that you're sacrificing movement to reduce bullet dispersion, etc, so I can see gameplay reasons for it, too.)

There are just far too many things that are only useful the one time you are forced to do them in the tutorial. (Press B to crouch under this low opening, the likes of which you will never see again! Sneak up behind this guy and press R3 to perform a silent kill in this game that is otherwise completely devoid of stealth gameplay!) I'm tired of it.

As I said, these things can all have their place sometimes, but in a given game's development, I'd like to believe there was at least a meeting where someone made a case for why that thing makes sense in this particular game. I can't help but imagine that in most cases, nobody ever brings up the possibility that you can make a first-person shooter without crouching. If it does come up, the answer must be "because players expect it." And that's a shitty way to make things.

[SecretAsianMan]

But without crouching, we wouldn't be able to teabag.  How else am I supposed to show contempt for my vanquished foes?

[Salacious Snake]

Aw, fuck. There goes my whole argument!

[SecretAsianMan]

The sad thing is, that's really the best reason I can think of.

[I_smell]

Awesome! Before I start to listen to this I'd just like to commend the person who wrote the description text for this week's cast. Upon getting the reference, it made me laugh and inadvertently spill my drink all over my desk.

Yeah I didn't get what I was reading until the last sentence, when I cracked up laughing.

[TheLastBaron]

I want a shirt that says "NEIL DIAMOND DANCE PARTY!"  that I can wear under a jacket and whip out when the time is right.

[Twig]

But without crouching, we wouldn't be able to teabag.  How else am I supposed to show contempt for my vanquished foes?

Damn! I think you just said all that needs to be said.

 

WB: Yeah I pretty much completely agree with you, then!

 

Kinda reminds me of when I first got Timesplitters 2 and was infuriated that I couldn't jump. But then I got used to it and it quickly became one of my favorite multiplayer experiences. Damn I love that game.

[TheLastBaron]

Damn! I think you just said all that needs to be said.

 

WB: Yeah I pretty much completely agree with you, then!

 

Kinda reminds me of when I first got Timesplitters 2 and was infuriated that I couldn't jump. But then I got used to it and it quickly became one of my favorite multiplayer experiences. Damn I love that game.

Question:  in TS2 do you play as the monkey?  Are you one of those people?

[sclpls]

I'm sympathetic to developers of shooters always including crouching because that's how these games are designed. I've seen so many people say they won't play a game if they can't jump. Why cause unnecessary anger?

 

I also firmly believe that good UI should be a gradual evolution process, and that you better have a damn good reason if you plan on reinventing the wheel. I played the Company of Heroes 2 beta last night, and I was able to play the game without any real issues without consulting a tutorial or having played the previous game simply from having a working knowledge of how most other RTS games work. That's a really valuable experience, and I think this is one area where I applaud more conservative/cautious game design.

[Twig]

Question:  in TS2 do you play as the money?  Are you one of those people?

of course i am

[TheLastBaron]

I actually don't remember, is the money worse than the floating robot guy in terms of being way harder to shoot?  My least favorite character is the little girl (Edwina?), but I love the bear and the guy with the cardboard robot costume.  God, Time Splitters was such a good game.

[Twig]

Monkey was smallest and fastest, as I recall. But also had the least health. It's been a long time for me, too, but yeah, SUCH a good game.