Steam Trading Card

[elmuerte]

I got in \o/ and I've got invites to give away. Sadly, giving away invites doesn't give me XP.

[shammack]

Yeah, it is weird. Only a subset of the people playing these games will ever complete any sets, with TF2 and Dota 2 as an exception, since those are theoretically limitless.

 

Still, it is a beta, so it'll probably change?

 

Also, I guess you can level each badge up to 5? Which means an even smaller subset will ever reach max level on the non-F2P games. In fact, it'd be entirely possible to never see max-level HL2, P2, or Don't Starve badges, if they get spread thin enough. (I'm sure there are some people who already bought up all the cards on the Steam Market, because they're weird.)

 

I like the idea as a fun distraction, but I'm not so sure about the execution.

 

I feel the same way. Like, I own Half-Life 2, Portal 2, and Don't Starve because I like those games, so ideally I'd like to complete all the card sets for those games. But there's no way I can ever do that unless I buy the cards directly (which will never happen) or trade something for them. I can't trade any cards for them, because the only cards I can get as drops are from sets that I want to keep. So I have to either buy and play a game I don't care about just to get the cards, or buy other stuff I don't want just to trade it away for cards (also not going to happen). I almost wish that card drops weren't tied to specific games, and playing any game would just get you random cards from any of the supported games. Then maybe there'd be a chance that I'd get a card for Counterstrike and trade with somebody for a Don't Starve or something. The way it works now, even if I wanted to trade with somebody to try to complete a set, I don't have anything to trade.

[I_smell]

I feel the same way. Like, I own Half-Life 2, Portal 2, and Don't Starve because I like those games, so ideally I'd like to complete all the card sets for those games. But there's no way I can ever do that unless I buy the cards directly (which will never happen) or trade something for them. I can't trade any cards for them, because the only cards I can get as drops are from sets that I want to keep. So I have to either buy and play a game I don't care about just to get the cards, or buy other stuff I don't want just to trade it away for cards (also not going to happen).

 

You could just only buy the things you like and completely ignore this corny marketing campaign.

Yeah I know, it's crazy that there's a secret hidden option.

[mikemariano]

I smell is right!

[Twig]

"Wahh wahh I don't like something so it's inherently evil wahhhh."

[Niyeaux]

Shockingly, some people enjoy things that other people don't enjoy. I know, weird, right!?

[I_smell]

I take it back, you guys are right, handing everyone an unfinished jigsaw and then selling the rest of it is purely about having fun, and I'm just an uptight square for not joining in.

[Lu]

If by the end of the year there are like 25 games that have cards and badges, doesn't that propose a healthier eco system of trading cards for cards? Or something.

[TheLastBaron]

If by the end of the year there are like 25 games that have cards and badges, doesn't that propose a healthier eco system of trading cards for cards? Or something.

 

Yeah that's what I was thinking.  Since there are only a few games I would care about having a badge for once more games have cards I'll have plenty to trade with.  I also might try and trade some of my large stash of metal in TF2 for TF2 cards and then trade those for different cards (I mean in the future, right now I don't really care about the badges)

[elmuerte]

LOL... I earned 0.01 euro by selling a steam trading card beta invite

[elmuerte]

Ok, I'm done with this trading card business as it's just a scam to earn more money from f2p games.

[TheLastBaron]

I think it's not so much about making more money on f2p games as it is about expanding the trading community/economy that exists around certain Steam games to Steam as a whole, especially with the new Steam marketplace.

[I_smell]

Valve's digging it's heels into games as a service, more than as a product- supporting rolling releases with Steam Early Access, cosmetic add-ons for every game with Steam Workshop, Dota, Team Fortress, etc.

They don't need people to buy one game a month any more, they need people to feel comfortable and confident in spending 50cents here and $3 there on a costume in TF2 the same way they buy a coffee every day. You make $3 purchases so much more often than you buy $30 games that your in-game TIME is revenue-per-hour now. It's not selling you on that one big sale any more, it's selling you on spending one more hour in-game, and building a more solid relationship with each service.

 

That's why you have a bunch of unclaimed rewards and bars filling up over time now, it's so that you become invested in the service, absorb the idea that buying cards is worth it because of all the badges you'll get, and also that you'll check back more often to see if your level's ticked over today or if you have any prizes waiting.

More frequent users spend more, veteran users spend more, free users become paying users once they become invested in the service (i.e. once they have a bunch of half-finished to-do lists and half-decks of cards), bar charts, scatter graphs, etc.

 

I can totally waffle about this all day, and I get it if I sound like a conspiracy idiot, but this same game's been refined and refined and refined since even before you could buy Furni in Habbo Hotel. "What's the average daily revenue per user" and "how do we get people to sign in more often" was a question they were asking on Neopets in 2005, it's not a fun, benevolent minigame.

 

Alright I am totally high-horsing like a buffoon at this point, I admit it.

[Twig]

Sure, absolutely, that stuff is all true. I have to deal with that on a daily basis where I work. ARPDAU! Ugh, it's the worst.

 

That doesn't preclude fun and doesn't mean it's offensive. It's entirely out-of-your-face should you choose to ignore it. Valve absolutely tries to get people to buy into their shit. That doesn't automatically mean that shit is, well, shit.

[Zeusthecat]

Yeah, I was embarrassed by my initial post on the first page of this thread because it was very conspiracy theory-y. So I shut up to prevent further embarrassing myself. So naturally, I'm going to embarrass myself again and sound like a nut.

 

It has been interesting reading through this thread as people are experiencing this. My opinion pretty much hasn't improved. It really just seems like a giant distraction from experiencing actual good games and is a good way to nickel and dime certain types of people by playing on their addictive nature. I think at some level it was intentionally designed this way. I mean, every corporation out there uses whatever marketing tricks they can to get people to buy crap that they don't actually want or need.

 

On the other hand, I can see intelligent people who can see through the gamification of games having a good time with this and having an enhanced experience. I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't see it as a bad thing necessarily but I do think there may be some slightly nefarious intentions behind how it is implemented. 

 

Go ahead people, rip into me. I know I sound pretty fucking loony. I don't feel my point of view has a very strong logical basis anyways but eh, why not fucking throw it into the internet.

 

Edit: Oh, and to make my argument even weaker, I love getting achievements on Xbox 360 (hypocritical right?). That is pretty much where I draw the line though. I do think there is a difference between an overarching score that can purely be built by only playing good games and going after fun achievements and a system this intricate that may give a much stronger incentive for doing retarded shit.

[I_smell]

Sure, absolutely, that stuff is all true. I have to deal with that on a daily basis where I work. ARPDAU! Ugh, it's the worst.

That doesn't preclude fun and doesn't mean it's offensive. It's entirely out-of-your-face should you choose to ignore it. Valve absolutely tries to get people to buy into their shit. That doesn't automatically mean that shit is, well, shit.

It is kind of offensive to dress up customer-training as a fun treat, and I do think it's a bit shit. People are rounding up cards in this thread while the guy in that other thread is giving away the coupons at the end of the tunnel cos he doesn't want em.

...which has had no replies for the first 12 hour by the way, because these things are just here to exploit a weak, sad vulnerability and aren't actually fun or useful.

When I see people getting excited about unlocking a paid Mystery Box in TF2, or high-fiving over getting an iPhone 5 day 1, I think it's ok to feel sad about that because those people got textbook-manipulated.

I think at some level it was intentionally designed this way.

I think stuff like this is designed for efficient function at literally every level.

I'm not bleeding-heart enough to stomp my feet about everything from Fast & Furious to Carly Rae Jepsen, but when it comes to games it feels weird that the guys who were like "oh you stand up n shout McDonald's that's so dumb" are all over this just-as-transparent gamification thing.

[Twig]

And the trend of you not liking it makes it evil continues. If people enjoy it, it's fun. You don't like it. Get over it.

[mikemariano]

Absolutely not, Twig; this has the capacity for real harm.

 

Hearing Shammack upthread talk about the dilemma he faces with his trading cards was just as uncomfortable as hearing a new Scientologist say "I want to get more readings, but I'm running out of money to give to the church." or hearing someone say, "I am trying to smoke a pack of cigarettes a day, but I have too many asthma attacks to keep up that rate of smoking."  People might get genuine enlightenment or self-satisfaction out of those activities, but there's very real risk and harm built into that belief system and that habit.

 

Shammack is open to a fun experience with the Steam cards, but all of the ways to complete a set involve doing something he doesn't want to do (pay, trade, etc.).  I'm not going to tell him "It's only like $1.50 so just buy a card already."  I'm not going to tell him to get over it.

 

Valve is being manipulative without showing much of a mutual benefit from that manipulation.  They might have good intentions; the trading card system may grow into something rewarding and non-coercive.  But the rough edges are still there and will result in unhappy achievement grinders and cow clickers.

[shammack]

Hearing Shammack upthread talk about the dilemma he faces with his trading cards was just as uncomfortable as hearing a new Scientologist say "I want to get more readings, but I'm running out of money to give to the church." or hearing someone say, "I am trying to smoke a pack of cigarettes a day, but I have too many asthma attacks to keep up that rate of smoking."

 

That's a bit extreme. The result of my "dilemma" was that I decided the trading card system wasn't much fun and wasn't motivated to participate in it any further. I'm not losing any sleep over not being able to complete my set of imaginary trading cards. I brought it up because I think it could potentially be fun but I have some criticisms about the design.

[elmuerte]

The problem with these cards is that there is no activity whatsoever needed to collect them. Why playing a game they just appear in your steam inventory. At least with achievements you have to do something. And then there is this thing about only being able to get 50% of the collection for a paid game, and unlimited number of cards for F2P (as long as you keep spending money in the game). So the paid game cards will be highly valuable compared to the F2P cards. So to complete your paid game card set you will probably have to trade multiple F2P cards, and thus you have to spend a lot of money to get F2P cards.

[Gormongous]

And the trend of you not liking it makes it evil continues. If people enjoy it, it's fun. You don't like it. Get over it.

 

I think it's perfectly okay to explore why you don't like something as much as why you do like something. You wouldn't go around criticizing people for saying something's good because they like it, would you?

 

Let people talk about what they want, stop trying to railroad the content of the discussion.

[Twig]

I talk about why I don't like things all the time, and I welcome that kind of discussion with open arms. I feel like his tone is entirely dismissive and is doing precisely what you're accusing me of doing. "THIS IS SHIT AND I WILL NOT TOLERATE ANOTHER OPINION."

 

It probably wasn't intended to be that way, but what the fuck do I know. Every time I assume the best, lately, it turns out it's actually the worst, so I guess I'm just inherently negative and grumpy about life in general, and it's bleeding over into my posts. Sorry.

 

 

The problem with these cards is that there is no activity whatsoever needed to collect them.

I don't think that's a problem. It's kinda like baseball cards in that regard. A couple steps removed, sure, but they share a lot in common, I think. I guess if you consider those similarly bullshit, then whatever.

 

I think the real problem is the limited number that you can get of specific sets. Restricting Complete Sets to only half the number of people who actually get all there drops (assuming no dupes) is lame. U:

 

As far as the F2P stuff goes, I'm entirely willing to spend a few bucks here and there in Dota 2, regardless, because I play that game at least ten hours a week. Usually way more. I already spent that money. Getting some extra cards is a decent little bonus, as far as I'm concerned. I won't do it in TF2, though, because I don't play that game, anymore. I also don't care about that set, as a result. 

[Niyeaux]

Absolutely not, Twig; this has the capacity for real harm.

 

Hearing Shammack upthread talk about the dilemma he faces with his trading cards was just as uncomfortable as hearing a new Scientologist say "I want to get more readings, but I'm running out of money to give to the church." or hearing someone say, "I am trying to smoke a pack of cigarettes a day, but I have too many asthma attacks to keep up that rate of smoking."  People might get genuine enlightenment or self-satisfaction out of those activities, but there's very real risk and harm built into that belief system and that habit.

 

Shammack is open to a fun experience with the Steam cards, but all of the ways to complete a set involve doing something he doesn't want to do (pay, trade, etc.).  I'm not going to tell him "It's only like $1.50 so just buy a card already."  I'm not going to tell him to get over it.

 

Valve is being manipulative without showing much of a mutual benefit from that manipulation.  They might have good intentions; the trading card system may grow into something rewarding and non-coercive.  But the rough edges are still there and will result in unhappy achievement grinders and cow clickers.

This is possibly the silliest argument that's been presented in this entire thread. Scientology and cigarettes aren't bad because you want to do them and they're somewhat addictive, they're bad because they do tangible harm to the people using them. No one is telling you not to smoke cigarettes because yo enjoy them too much, they're telling you that because they give you fucking cancer.

 

There is no similar harm caused by idly collecting imaginary trading cards on an online gaming platform. Most of us have specified that we don't intend to spend any money on this system, and are engaging with it purely as a matter of curiosity. I don't understand people's beef with this at all.

[SecretAsianMan]

This is possibly the silliest argument that's been presented in this entire thread. Scientology and cigarettes aren't bad because you want to do them and they're somewhat addictive, they're bad because they do tangible harm to the people using them. No one is telling you not to smoke cigarettes because yo enjoy them too much, they're telling you that because they give you fucking cancer.

 

There is no similar harm caused by idly collecting imaginary trading cards on an online gaming platform. Most of us have specified that we don't intend to spend any money on this system, and are engaging with it purely as a matter of curiosity. I don't understand people's beef with this at all.

 

For me, the potential harm comes from other people.  I don't care about TF2 hats and I don't buy stuff from the store, but I still have to deal with the people who spam the chat trying to sell their crap or send me random, uninvited trade requests.  In that case, it's limited to one game and relatively easy to ignore, but I'm worried it will end up spreading across all of Steam now.  To compare it to the smoking analogy, it's the second hand smoke I'm worried about.  I don't smoke and I don't buy cigarettes, but it's still affecting me because the guy next to me did.

[Zeusthecat]

I don't understand people's beef with this at all.

 

That's fine to have a different opinion. But a few of us clearly aren't fans of the implementation and have given reasons. That statement at the end is a little condescending to those that don't share your viewpoint.