Nextbox 1080: The Reckoning

[Henroid]

Remember way back when people were ripping on the PS4 for being a nonentity post-announcement? Turns out there's something worse, and that something is multiple mixed messages from Microsoft execs creating a Frankenstein's monster of mistrust and despair. Sony's silent strategy suddenly seems smarter, somehow.

Incidentally it's the same strategy Activision has been following (and just for some extra credit, Electronic Arts has been as loud and stupid as Microsoft, minus the mixed-messaging part).

[Merus]

And this is why you don't announce shit before it's done!

 

I suspect Microsoft were expecting to coast to victory based on their previous strategy, to wit: make the platform as attractive as possible to develop on by getting rid of as few development bottlenecks as possible. The problem: Sony actually learned from their mistakes! So they made an x86-based platform with several iterations designed to get rid of as many bottlenecks as possible! Which means that all that carefully cultivated advantage Microsoft thought they had is gone, because now Sony has the same advantage and internal teams used to sharing techniques, tricks and tips! And all the disadvantages Sony brought upon themselves in the last console cycle are no longer a factor, and the audience is more open to Sony because the audience doesn't yet believe Sony intends to screw them over!

 

It's a good bit of fun to watch.

[Ucantalas]

My reaction to hearing about all of this XBone stuff is as follows:
 

 

[niwrA]

No drama like E3 drama!

But the main event is still to come (soon thankfully) and the fat lady has yet to properly sing. I'm going to reserve judgment until then. I look forward to seeing more on Forza 5 and that it is a launch title helps my willingness to get the XBO at launch (I'm fairly likely to get both, as always, though so far the Playstations have been used way, way more than the Xboxen. This no doubt has partly to do with being in Europe, and partly with no real online gaming community to 'Party' with.

I think the online requirement holds for most platforms that have digital only versions (including Vita, iOS). The onky point of contention imho is if they can get away with doing that for discs as well, which I think would be unfortunate and limited only to installs that don't require the disc afterwards.

[Ucantalas]

I think the big difference is that the XBone needs to connect every 24 hours.

My iPod Touch needs to go online once to get the game(s), but after that I never need to connect to the internet ever again. I have gone several weeks at a time without Internet before, and if that happens with the XBone then I suddenly have no console.

[Thrik]

Am I the only one that is thoroughly expecting a SimCity-esque fuck up of epic proportions to happen with this 24-hour connection thing? What happens if Microsoft experience downtime (it can and has happened)? Or if someone's internet connection stops working for a little while when the check is done? Or what if someone's moving home or internet provider and they have no internet for a week or so? These are all things I've experienced when using my 360, UK internet connectivity ain't all that.

This just seems so anti-consumer that it pisses me off regardless of what justifications Microsoft use. The only reason that services like Steam are accepted is because they deliver overwhelming value in addition to any negatives they might bring. What Microsoft's doing is purely shit and offers no benefits to consumers whatsoever.

[Roderick]

 

Shall I prepare the guest room for Mr. Cock-up, my lord?

[Dewar]

I like some of the DRM features they've announced, like being able to lend games to a friend, having the family group accounts so everyone can play games wherever they are, and confirmation that anyone can play the game on the xbox it was downloaded on. Those go a long way to making me more comfortable with the Steam-ize-ing of my console. 24 hours though is pretty damn lousy.

[melmer]

It's strange as I was so bummed out by the last press conference, I was 100% not interested in getting one... Now slowly over these last couple of weeks I've somehow managed to talk myself round. I wonder if Microsoft can again dash all interest for me on Monday.

I don't mind owning both the new consoles, what it comes down to is that I don't want to have to pay two subscription services. It seems like you get a hell of a lot more for your money with ps plus. This month they're getting Xcom and uncharted 3 for free, I wonder if that stuff will care over and they'll be available to stream for free?... Doubt it.

My 5 years worth of xbox gold run out last month and I really can't say I miss it, although it was highly annoying when I booted up final fight the other day and wanted to jump into someone's game and got a big NO message. Fuck you Microsoft, you can stuff lococycle up your ass

This is what the next generation of games looks like:

http://www.allgamesbeta.com/2013/06/twisted-pixel-announce-lococycle-as.html

[Dewar]

I liked the PS4 announcement a lot and it got me enthused for the new generation when I was pretty apathetic before. All this XbOne stuff has succeded in making my apathetic again. I hope that E3 has some cool stuff, I hate feeling so meh about the whole thing.

[Roderick]

What's pretty funny to me is that over the last month, in my head, the Wii U has gone from an uninteresting has-been, to the most promising of the new consoles and the one I will definitely buy in a year. Everything I hear about the Xbone and PS4 makes me super giddy about switching to the PC for my big gaming needs.

[JonCole]

I'm actually on a similar tip regarding the Wii U. It will hopefully deliver the most varied offerings of the consoles as compared to the PC, so it's the next in line for my purchase above the XB1 and PS4. Those consoles have me excited about the future of gaming, but by the time they're coming out of the womb the Wii U will have some serious exclusive offerings and a much more appealing value proposition.

[Sno]

What's pretty funny to me is that over the last month, in my head, the Wii U has gone from an uninteresting has-been, to the most promising of the new consoles and the one I will definitely buy in a year. Everything I hear about the Xbone and PS4 makes me super giddy about switching to the PC for my big gaming needs.

I'm on the same tract right now. I feel like i built a new PC at just the right time, i want to get more back into PC gaming.

I'll probably get an XBO, speaking honestly, but i don't think i'm going to be on board with it like i was for the 360. I also think the PS4's online infrastructure is likely to be every bit as offensive to people as the XBO's theoretically is. Sony's been super smart to be as quiet as they are. They made some lofty promises, showed some neat games, and then shut themselves the fuck up until E3. Microsoft, on the other hand, every bit of news that comes out about the XBO is just making people angrier and angrier. They might have been better served to stay quiet until they had games to show at E3, or, hey, opened with the games like Sony did.

 

As for the Wii U, it still needs to show that it has games, literally any interesting games, this is going to be a very important E3 for Nintendo. I think we'll know if the Wii U has a future or not by the time the show is over. So hopefully they'll show off a bunch of great games and then cap it off with a brief jab about how their games still work without an internet connection. Drop the mic, exit stage. (Can't i dream?)

[tegan]

On top of needing games, the Wii U needs release dates for games. Most of the games that we've known about since before the console hit stores still don't have concrete dates set for them.

[Frenetic Pony]

I'm actually on a similar tip regarding the Wii U. It will hopefully deliver the most varied offerings of the consoles as compared to the PC, so it's the next in line for my purchase above the XB1 and PS4. Those consoles have me excited about the future of gaming, but by the time they're coming out of the womb the Wii U will have some serious exclusive offerings and a much more appealing value proposition.

 

Meh, the Wii-U, the thing with no games and no prospect for games, is suddenly the answer to some slightly anti consumer practices? Let's not kid ourselves. If the PS4 get's it "right" it will be launching with a good PR lead for first adopters, how that will translate into the long run I don't know.

 

But the ball is in Sony's court. I wouldn't blame them for allowing publishers to decide whether or not used games should be a thing. At this point they just have to offer up a console that doesn't have to connect to the internet to play games and they appear better than MS. And since they actually HAVE games, unlike the Wii-U, they appear better than Nintendo as well.

 

I can see a DRM scheme where you can either just register the disc to your console, and you're chip locked into that console (there are chips on these discs for IDs) and have to have to the disc in to play the game. Or you can choose to register the game to your PSN account, and the chip locks itself up permanently but you don't have to have the disc in to play. It still allows install only games that can be played without the disc actually being in, and it simultaneously allows anyone freaking out about not having an internet connection (for however long) to play the games as well.

 

Meanwhile, while I buy used games and even sell them occasionally, I've zero sympathy for anyone whining about used games going away. It's the publishers and devs right to charge whatever the fuck they want, and you don't have any "right" to say what they can and can't do with their products anymore that there's a "right" to tell a car manufacturer how much it can charge for a car. If it bothers you vote with your dollars, don't buy their games! But I suspect most people are also whining because they know their going to buy them anyway, and just want more value out of them. "We're going to change nothing, but we won't be happy about it!"

[Dewar]

I will never buy a Nintendo console again while purchases are still irrevocably (at least without shipping in to Nintendo) attached to the console they were purchased on.

[Sno]

What's this about shipping anything to Nintendo?

Their consoles all have license transfer tools built-in, i've done the process a few times.

That doesn't make it not dumb, but still miles less dumb than what you're suggesting.

It's also only digital content that is handled like that, retail games are not tied into anything.

[JonCole]

Meh, the Wii-U, the thing with no games and no prospect for games, is suddenly the answer to some slightly anti consumer practices? Let's not kid ourselves. If the PS4 get's it "right" it will be launching with a good PR lead for first adopters, how that will translate into the long run I don't know.

 

But the ball is in Sony's court. I wouldn't blame them for allowing publishers to decide whether or not used games should be a thing. At this point they just have to offer up a console that doesn't have to connect to the internet to play games and they appear better than MS. And since they actually HAVE games, unlike the Wii-U, they appear better than Nintendo as well.

 

I can see a DRM scheme where you can either just register the disc to your console, and you're chip locked into that console (there are chips on these discs for IDs) and have to have to the disc in to play the game. Or you can choose to register the game to your PSN account, and the chip locks itself up permanently but you don't have to have the disc in to play. It still allows install only games that can be played without the disc actually being in, and it simultaneously allows anyone freaking out about not having an internet connection (for however long) to play the games as well.

 

Meanwhile, while I buy used games and even sell them occasionally, I've zero sympathy for anyone whining about used games going away. It's the publishers and devs right to charge whatever the fuck they want, and you don't have any "right" to say what they can and can't do with their products anymore that there's a "right" to tell a car manufacturer how much it can charge for a car. If it bothers you vote with your dollars, don't buy their games! But I suspect most people are also whining because they know their going to buy them anyway, and just want more value out of them. "We're going to change nothing, but we won't be happy about it!"

 

I'm the biggest critic of the Wii U, so let's not blow what I'm saying out of proportion. Pragmatically, I know that I'm going to own every console at some point. I'm simply saying that in four or five months time, the Wii U will have a one year software head-start on these other consoles and has a first-party offering that almost by default outclasses everyone else.

 

It doesn't solve any DRM problems or anything like that, it's just that the Xbox One has done enough at this point to deter me from buying it until I see exactly how it works in the real world and whether or not it has games I really want to play over the PC. Add to that the simple fact that the Wii U will be at most $300 this holiday season and the Xbox One and PS4 are likely to be floating around $400, and it's a little bit of a no-brainer what the budget-conscious, lower-to-middle class gamer that already owns a modern PC like myself should choose at the moment.

 

Or to put it in your terms, I'll vote with my dollar. I should also say that I think it's entirely unlikely that the PS4 will have any specifically tailored benefits for first adopters like you mentioned. The first wave is full of people who are already going to buy it no matter what's in the box. It's the same reason why there are essentially no bundles at launch; bundling a game in is only useful if it demonstrates the function of the system (Wii Sports, NES w/ Zapper, etc), otherwise it's just a pro-consumer choice that might buy you brand-loyalty or pride in purchasing but not additional sales.

[Roderick]

So hopefully they'll show off a bunch of great games and then cap it off with a brief jab about how their games still work without an internet connection. Drop the mic, exit stage. (Can't i dream?)

 

I'm going to scream like a little girl if they pull that one out of their hat. "Oh, and finally, you know when you have a machine that plays games, and you buy a game on it and it plays your game, always, regardless of what big companies want? That's US now." BOOM.

[brkl]

Meh, the Wii-U, the thing with no games and no prospect for games, is suddenly the answer to some slightly anti consumer practices? Let's not kid ourselves. If the PS4 get's it "right" it will be launching with a good PR lead for first adopters, how that will translate into the long run I don't know.

But the ball is in Sony's court. I wouldn't blame them for allowing publishers to decide whether or not used games should be a thing. At this point they just have to offer up a console that doesn't have to connect to the internet to play games and they appear better than MS. And since they actually HAVE games, unlike the Wii-U, they appear better than Nintendo as well.

I can see a DRM scheme where you can either just register the disc to your console, and you're chip locked into that console (there are chips on these discs for IDs) and have to have to the disc in to play the game. Or you can choose to register the game to your PSN account, and the chip locks itself up permanently but you don't have to have the disc in to play. It still allows install only games that can be played without the disc actually being in, and it simultaneously allows anyone freaking out about not having an internet connection (for however long) to play the games as well.

Meanwhile, while I buy used games and even sell them occasionally, I've zero sympathy for anyone whining about used games going away. It's the publishers and devs right to charge whatever the fuck they want, and you don't have any "right" to say what they can and can't do with their products anymore that there's a "right" to tell a car manufacturer how much it can charge for a car. If it bothers you vote with your dollars, don't buy their games! But I suspect most people are also whining because they know their going to buy them anyway, and just want more value out of them. "We're going to change nothing, but we won't be happy about it!"

It's kind of the opposite. The EU at least has laws to stop companies from trying to take away consumers' right to resell the products they purchase.

[Thrik]

I was going to say... the right to resell is pretty universal at this point outside of games and digital purchases. I don't think people would be happy if something were somehow put in place that controls reselling their cars, houses, etc.

[I Saw Dasein]

I was going to say... the right to resell is pretty universal at this point outside of games and digital purchases. I don't think people would be happy if something were somehow put in place that controls reselling their cars, houses, etc.

Not really. There are many kinds of property interests that are non-transferable. You can't "resell" a leased car, for example. Of course you don't own a leased car, but you also don't own a licensed piece of software. 

[Thrik]

Perhaps in the Americas, but in Europe the right to resell is a very real thing and not just a concept. Here's some relevant reading:

 

European Court confirms the right to resell used software licences

 

So assertions like this by Frenetic Pony:

 

 It's the publishers and devs right to charge whatever the fuck they want, and you don't have any "right" to say what they can and can't do with their products anymore that there's a "right" to tell a car manufacturer how much it can charge for a car.

 

...are absolutely false. I do in fact have a literal right to do whatever the fuck I want with their product after I've bought it. In fact it seems I didn't understand my own right fully myself, and falsely assumed it doesn't cover digital purchases when actually it does. Microsoft are going to end up in some pretty messy territory if they don't think through carefully how they implement all this on this side of the ocean.

[Zeusthecat]

At this point I think Microsoft's statements and clarifications have pretty much guaranteed that I will be spending my money elsewhere. With confirmation that you lose the ability to play games if you don't check in every 24 hours, mandatory Kinect (although they claim you can turn it off in some fashion), severe limitations on borrowing a game from a friend, and the additional headache and cost that will be associated with selling games or buying a used game (I agree with Thrik's statement, especially considering there is almost a 40 year precedent of being able to sell back games and buy used) I don't see any reason why I should give them my money.

 

As I've stated before, none of this would actually have any impact on me. I have great internet, never buy used, and rarely borrow games. But when I see a company impose all of these restrictions without providing any additional benefit to the consumer it kind of feels like a giant middle finger. I cringe every time I hear them justify it by saying something like "We are doing this to ensure that people will always have the latest updates and have the best possible gaming experience". It just feels dishonest. I also find it kind of weird that their target demographic has started to shift away from people who play video games considering those people are primarily the ones that were responsible for the success of their previous two systems and are still likely the majority of people who will buy Xbone.

 

I am very interested to see what Sony's plans are for the PS4. I'm sure there will be some similar measures but if they have at least one less restriction than Xbone (it sounds like they won't have the mandatory internet connection at least) then that is where my dollars will go. I am a lifelong gamer and a sucker for new consoles with cutting edge technology so I will purchase one and will just have to accept some of this shit if I want to continue to play console games.

 

I might also get a WiiU at some point when they have a good library of games but it isn't as interesting to me because of the outdated tech. But I applaud Nintendo for not giving me a big middle finger.

[shammack]

you also don't own a licensed piece of software. 

 

This is such an absurd idea. I know that legally that's the way they claim it is but I can't believe people are so willing to go along with it. It makes me hate everything.