Fund Tim Schafer's next game YOURSELF!

[brkl]

A three million dollar DOS game? AGS would make a whole lot more sense actually. I don't know what the limitations of Scumm are specifically, but twenty years of progress in APIs, IDEs and such has borne some fruit.

[Erkki]

Both Ron and Tim have extensive experience with SCUMM, so it would make perfect sense for them to use it.

What brkl said. And also that they made awesome games with it 15 years ago (or more recently in case of Ron?) doesn't mean they could reuse that experience immediately right now (or maybe they could). Although there is SCUMMVM, so that might make it more realistic, but I don't think it is any way obvious that SCUMM would be perfect for this, or that we even can have a clue as outsiders what would be.

[Jayel]

Do Monkey Island special editions use SCUMM? Maybe they could licence whatever that is - it supports all platform (except android) right?

edit: or even Telltale engine.... it's 3d but seems to do 2d pretty well, lookin at puzzle agent games.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Jayel

[ThunderPeel2001]

A three million dollar DOS game? AGS would make a whole lot more sense actually. I don't know what the limitations of Scumm are specifically, but twenty years of progress in APIs, IDEs and such has borne some fruit.

I'm baffled. "A three million dollar DOS game?" Plenty of SCUMM games have been made for Windows. I have no doubt that Curse of Monkey Island probably cost around $3 million (given that Full Throttle cost $2.2 adjusted). What do you imagine the biggest budget an AGS game has had?

Given the quirks and limitations of AGS, and also the fact that some of us are paying $100 for this game, I'm not sure how the world would react if they revealed it was an AGS game. I personally think it feels cheap and not professional, but maybe that's just me.

Given what I've been told about developing in AGS, I hardly think it shows the 20 years of progression you imagine, though. Plus, the last SCUMM game commercially released was in 2002, not 1992.

Finally, SCUMM is already completely portable to all the target devices (Windows, OSX, Linux, Android, and iOS) thanks to the work of ScummVM -- which is all open source, and free to use.

I've no idea what you're so resistant to them using SCUMM, it clearly makes the most amount of sense given what they want to accomplish.

Edited February 27, 2012 by ThunderPeel2001

[syntheticgerbil]

I wasn't trying to hate on Ron!

Sorry, I was just making a bad and obscure joke referring to another thread, possibly the Deathspank one, where I said similar things and was responded with accusations of me hating Ron Gilbert.

[Tanukitsune]

What else is there...? AGS? A three million dollar AGS game?? Yikes.

Maybe? Will the fans want pixel art? Can it handle hand drawn graphic? There is an engine to make adventure games in flash, but I don't remember it's name now.

Maybe they could use whatever engine WadjetEye used for Emerald City Confidential?

[ThunderPeel2001]

Maybe they could use whatever engine WadjetEye used for Emerald City Confidential?

Yeah, I was wondering what that was. It seemed to work well for that game. Was it a modified version of AGS, I wonder?

[elmuerte]

3 million $ games?

I don't have time to play that many games.

[ThunderPeel2001]

3 million $ games?

I don't have time to play that many games.

They're only an 1/8 of a second long, though.

[Tanukitsune]

I looked it up out of curiousity, it was made with Playfirst's SDK, does that means it's the same engine as Diner Dash?

[juv3nal]

Yeah, I was wondering what that was. It seemed to work well for that game. Was it a modified version of AGS, I wonder?

I don't know about ECC, but he uses AGS for the Blackwell series and Gemini Rue also uses AGS.

[ThunderPeel2001]

I don't know about ECC, but he uses AGS for the Blackwell series and Gemini Rue also uses AGS.

Yep, I was well aware of that. It's why I wondered if Emerald City Confidential used a modified version, as it had a better interface and graphics, but I know Gilbert's background. Ben There, Dan That also used AGS. As did Time Gentlemen Please.

Do Monkey Island special editions use SCUMM? Maybe they could licence whatever that is - it supports all platform (except android) right?

Yep, they do! Or at least a modified version of it. That means the last commercially sold SCUMM game was less than two years ago. Good point!

What brkl said. And also that they made awesome games with it 15 years ago (or more recently in case of Ron?) doesn't mean they could reuse that experience immediately right now (or maybe they could).

Let's not forget something: Ron co-CREATED the Scumm engine. He worked with it professionally for FIFTEEN years. And, as far as we know, it was the only real "programming" that Tim ever did.

I know if I'd worked with something that long that I'd find it easier to go back to it, rather than learn a whole new system.

[elmuerte]

They're only an 1/8 of a second long, though.

Still 104 hours of gameplay.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Still 104 hours of gameplay.

It'll be the Skyrim of 2D Graphic Adventures.

[BigJKO]

I looked it up out of curiousity, it was made with Playfirst's SDK, does that means it's the same engine as Diner Dash?

Oh, my.. That's scary.

RE: The Engine!

It could possibly make most sense for them to use whatever tech they already have developed at Double Fine. Of course I'd want them to use as little resources as possible on engine code. But if Tim and Ron have some new gameplay mechanic ideas, going for a new engine might even be a more sensible choice, considering how evil the SCUMM engine can be when you try to do more complicated stuff (like Full Throttle's demolition derby)

[ThunderPeel2001]

Wouldn't it make most sense for them to use whatever tech they already have developed at Double Fine. Of course I'd want them to use as little resources as possible on engine code. If Tim and Ron have some new gameplay mechanic ideas, going for a new engine might even be a more sensible choice, considering how evil the SCUMM engine can be when you try to do more complicated stuff (like Full Throttle's demolition derby)

I believe Tim has already Tweeted that their engine isn't suitable, so they'll be using something else. Plus they pretty much explicitly stated it in the video that they'll either have to build something or license one.

Don't forget that the recent Monkey Island: SE's used the SCUMM engine, from what I've read on the SCUMMVM forums, so it's clearly capable of more complicated things. And Curse of Monkey Island didn't have any icky Demolition Derby style moments.

Also noted from the video: A third of Full Throttle was cut out! I never knew that before.

Edited February 27, 2012 by ThunderPeel2001

[Erkki]

Let's not forget something: Ron co-CREATED the Scumm engine. He worked with it professionally for FIFTEEN years. And, as far as we know, it was the only real "programming" that Tim ever did.

I know if I'd worked with something that long that I'd find it easier to go back to it, rather than learn a whole new system.

That's a good point. I had forgotten how long that period was when he made adventure games. Also, I realize you know more about SCUMM than I do so perhaps my idea that it's aged is false. I didn't know (or forgot) that it was used in the Monkey Island Special Editions.

Anyway, it still doesn't mean it would be perfect for the project. That depends on a lot of stuff. If the AGS engine is really (going) open source with a sane license, they could easily work out the kinks of that. Or whatever, maybe Ron has been working on a SCUDFA in secret.

[BigJKO]

Don't forget that the recent Monkey Island: SE's used the SCUMM engine, from what I've read on the SCUMMVM forums, so it's clearly capable of more complicated things. And Curse of Monkey Island didn't have any icky Demolition Derby style moments.

Yes, Demolition Derby was icky! I only meant if they wanted to do something complicated, requiring calculations, perhaps simple physics, etc. At that point the SCUMM engine starts being a bit cumbersome.

Also, the only "modern" thing about the Special Edition Monkey Island's is the resolution and portability. The rest is all 90's Monkey Island. Although, technically that's all they'd need to create a modern adventure game.

I don't know.. I'm hoping they at least try to push the boundaries of what we consider adventure games to be, especially now that they have a pretty nice budget.

I loved the adventure games that Tim made back then because of their story but also because back then it was fresh. I hope he can still surprise me, not just with his awesome wit and storytelling but also in the gameplay mechanics, even if it stays completely within the confines of classic point and click!

[ThunderPeel2001]

Yes, Demolition Derby was icky! I only meant if they wanted to do something complicated, requiring calculations, perhaps simple physics, etc. At that point the SCUMM engine starts being a bit cumbersome.

Also, the only "modern" thing about the Special Edition Monkey Island's is the resolution and portability. The rest is all 90's Monkey Island. Although, technically that's all they'd need to create a modern adventure game.

You're forgetting the ability to flawlessly switch between high definition art and old school graphics. That was pretty technically impressive.

[Thrik]

There's also a relatively sophisticated lighting system in the Special Editions, particularly in MI2. Characters are coloured and shaded differently depending on where in the scene they are, so as they go past lanterns and stuff the light illuminates them appropriately. It's fairly gorgeous and something I'd like to see in any modern 2D game.

[toblix]

You're forgetting the ability to flawlessly switch between high definition art and old school graphics. That was pretty technically impressive.

I initially thought so too, until I realised they had limited the new graphics engine severely so as to not conflict with the old one. So, all the hotspots were the same, the timing and framerate of everything; basically just a graphics switch. Not that impressive.

[ThunderPeel2001]

I initially thought so too, until I realised they had limited the new graphics engine severely so as to not conflict with the old one. So, all the hotspots were the same, the timing and framerate of everything; basically just a graphics switch. Not that impressive.

Well that was done on purpose to show how "pure" it was being... in MI2 there was extra frames of animation, extra animated background details, and other things they added, though. Plus, I still think it was technically impressive and far from "clunky". I can't think of another 2D Graphic Adventure that did as much, technically.

[toblix]

Well that was done on purpose to show how "pure" it was being...

Oh, I got more of an impression they were rushing out the art big time.

in MI2 there was extra frames of animation, extra animated background, and other things they added, though. Plus, I still think it was technically impressive and far from "clunky". I can't think of another 2D Graphic Adventure that did as much, technically.

I don't remember if I played the MI2:SE. Even if they did add extra animation and better graphics, it's still an engine created with the weird requirement that it has to map 1:1 to an old-timey point and click adventure. I agree that it felt more polished and smooth than, say, an AGS game, with it's laughable configuration dialogues and desktop destroying full-screen modes.

I think no one has mentioned Broken Sword 2, which had a great engine, with lots of beautiful animation, parallax scrolling and some (for its time) advanced graphical effects like transparency and anti-aliasing. Anyway, getting the graphics right is probably a trivial job compared to wiring everything up to a scripting API that compares to SCUMM.

[Thrik]

Well the hotspots are obviously going to be the same, but I do think MI2:SE went a lot further than MI1:SE with regards to swanking everything up. MI1:SE very much feels like the same game with switched sprites, and while MI2:SE still does it also feels like a lot more work has been done on adding life and depth to each scene.

MI2:SE is pretty much one of the most beautiful 2D adventure games I've played, which is in no small part down to the quality of the original art direction but nonetheless it looks fantastic. MI1:SE was merely OK, I'd say.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Oh, I got more of an impression they were rushing out the art big time.

I seem to remember its "authenticity" being used as a selling point... I'm sure they rushed out the art, though.