V The Elder Scrolls

[elmuerte]

Hmm... just had my 4th crash.

@Sno concerning that NPC chatter, I found out that it's not only happens with random chatter but also with proper quest dialogues. I had one quest dialogue going on about 100m away from me. My map was updated, I received items and hat not. But I missed half of the quest story. I'm about 9 hours in and I'm still struggling with the 'E' key. I keep pressing it to close the thing I'm searching. And I'd wish I could bind items to the number keys rather than going through the favorite menu.

[Sno]

I also unexpectedly ran into M'aiq while playing, his metatextual silliness fills me with glee.

"M'aiq has heard the people of Skyrim are better looking than the ones in Cyrodiil. He has no opinion on the matter. All people are beautiful to him."

And I'd wish I could bind items to the number keys rather than going through the favorite menu.

I was informed by a friend who is playing the game on the PC that you can, but that there's some odd roundabout way to do it. I don't remember the specifics, but you can do it.

[Laxan]

I was informed by a friend who is playing the game on the PC that you can, but that there's some odd roundabout way to do it. I don't remember the specifics, but you can do it.

While in the favourite menu, NOT the inventory screen, highlight the item you want to bind and press 1-8 to bind it to that key.

[Gwardinen]

I wish the frequency of the NPC random chatter was turned down a whooole bunch. It was annoying in Oblivion, and it can be even worse here. Walking down a street and having three or four NPC's try to start a conversation with you, all of them talking over eachother, is completely ridiculous. Spend enough time in a town and they all run through their dialogue options really quickly.

I've noticed that they try to talk to you less if you don't go too near them, so I give a comically wide berth to a lot of NPCs these days.

I am terrified by the perks system, there's just so much shit going on there, there's hundreds of perks to sort out before can figure out what your build should be. Very glad they don't force you to spend your perks on a level-up, you can keep them for later. (I believe i had heard that there are 250 perks? The theoretical level cap for the game would have you top out around 70-80 perks.)

...

The new and changed crafting mechanics are cool. I like the changes to alchemy, not sure how i feel about the changes to enchanting. Smithing is neat and there's a lot to it, but seems like it will be hard to level. It also more or less requires a significant investment of perks to be particularly useful. Cooking is super nifty, kind of an early-game stand-in for alchemy.

Yeah... perks are freaking me out but I'm doing my best not to think about it. I'm just putting perks in whatever interests me at the time and hoping it adds up to a cool character. That said, I did end up putting perks into bound weapons and using them more specifically because I looked ahead and saw a perk (that I now have) that basically makes them automatically steal souls. So now I'm farming souls with my bound weapon (as long as I have enough gems) and then using them to spam enchantments to level enchanting with the end goal that I might be able to apply some of my neat magical robe enchantments to actual armour at some point.

I completely love the overhauled magic system, but the hard level limits on illusion spells have been making those spells pretty useless. Still, a pure mage build would probably be a hell of a lot of fun in this.

I'm playing a weird conjuration/destruction/melee mage hybrid thing right now. I don't really know how it's going in terms of effectiveness, but it's both pretty and entertaining. Having a companion most of the time makes such things way more viable than in Oblivion.

The melee feels fine to me, and maybe about the same as Oblivion, but perhaps a bit more... tactile is maybe the word? It's not as floaty, hits have more weight. It also probably seems poorer than it really is for having come out a few weeks after a game that significantly raised the expectations for this kind of bashy dudes-in-armor fantasy melee. The combat here isn't especially deep by itself, but throw in all the other mechanics, there's still a lot going on.

Might just be memory tricks, but to me it feels exactly as floaty and stupid as Oblivion. Also, yeah, having played Dark Souls recently just makes the melee combat feel even more underwhelming and ridiculous. It also makes me block too much.

[Sno]

A couple more thoughts on the game -

I'm undecided on how i feel about them removing all the attributes. I guess they were essentially just an unnecessary extra layer of statistical modifiers, but i kind of liked having all those fiddly numbers. Fiddly numbers are great.

What i am glad has changed is the complete removal of the major/minor skill divide. That was always a really dumb, broken part of their leveling mechanic. It was always either easily abusable for min-maxing or, if mismanaged, bound to leave you severely underpowered and unprepared for anything actually challenging.

I mean, they were SP games with a difficulty toggle, so it's not like it really ever mattered. It was just dumb, bad design that always really bugged me.

Also, i sort of dig the randomized quests. They stand out quite obviously and they seem to settle pretty hard into a predictable routine, but as a way to incentivize you going out and exploring non-quest dungeons, it's kind of awesome. (Because the dungeons themselves frequently actually are interesting.)

Has anybody figured out all the economics stuff seeded throughout the game? Every shop has a ledger in the back, for example. I haven't really tried messing around with it at all.

[Irishjohn]

A couple more thoughts on the game -

I'm undecided on how i feel about them removing all the attributes. I guess they were essentially just an unnecessary extra layer of statistical modifiers, but i kind of liked having all those fiddly numbers. Fiddly numbers are great.

Yeah, me too, and I've never thought of myself as a hardcore RPG guy, at all. I wanted to play as a thief but have basically become a kleptomaniac mage with a decent fire spell who is otherwise rubbish at fighting.

Speaking of which, I was kind of enjoying combat a little, then got to a point where I died a couple of times in a dungeon and promptly made combat novice so I could get to content. I find the combat so boring there is absolutely no incentive at all for me to bother having it at any level above novice. I did that immediately with Oblivion but assumed I'd stick with normal this time, only to go back to making combat as much of a formality as possible. Am I alone in this?

[Sno]

I had always just played Morrowind and Oblivion on the default difficulty, which is what i am doing for this as well.

Protip - Alchemy is your friend, and now cooking is too, because it allows you immediate low-level access to healing items. Pause the game and heal. Pause the game and buff. Pause the game and eat a steak. (The poisons are pretty great too.)

If you're playing a mage, having a shield can actually be pretty useful. (The shield bash move staggers enemies, giving you time for casting.)

Also, i understand that this game doesn't scale such that you could beat the main quest at low levels like people always did in Oblivion, they have purposefully soft-gated the main quest path with tougher enemies.

Which is awesome, that's the way it should be.

Edited November 13, 2011 by Sno

[elmuerte]

Speaking of alchemy. how can I figure out the formulas? I have yet to figure out the formula for a health potion. And in stores I can only find formulas for stuff I'm not interested in.

[Sno]

Speaking of alchemy. how can I figure out the formulas? I have yet to figure out the formula for a health potion. And in stores I can only find formulas for stuff I'm not interested in.

Just experiment, when you stumble onto a combination, the relevant effects are revealed on the ingredients involved.

It just starts coming faster once you have a base to start from. Even if a combination doesn't work, every combination you've tried is remembered by the game, so you just have to work through it.

I really like it, i think it's a cool change for Alchemy.

Just eating the ingredients raw probably randomly reveals effects too? I haven't really bothered with that. (It probably also still raises your alchemy skill a tiny bit, which it did in Morrowind and Oblivion.)

[elmuerte]

I just did that (simply trying various things) I like it.

Also, I'm a weak mofo :/ I decided to explore a random cave, which had a nice glowing ceiling. But I encountered some very strong creatures which I could only beat one at the time. The second part of the cave contained 2 such creatures, so I kept dieing. Had to exist the cave without clearing it

[Gwardinen]

I just did that (simply trying various things) I like it.

Also, I'm a weak mofo :/ I decided to explore a random cave, which had a nice glowing ceiling. But I encountered some very strong creatures which I could only beat one at the time. The second part of the cave contained 2 such creatures, so I kept dieing. Had to exist the cave without clearing it

I don't know if you actually want to do this, but it's worth pointing out that the difficulty can be changed at any time. Also if you're not a hardass warrior spec I recommend taking an ally with you pretty much all the time. There are a few you can get via quests, and some inns also have a mercenary chilling in them who can be hired.

[elmuerte]

I don't want to do that. I just need to become more bad-ass.

I'm not really in favor of companions. I'm supposed to be the guy that saves the world. I shouldn't need help with that :/

[Erkki]

I have skipped most of your posts in fear of spoilers. I read that elmuerte had some crashes, but are there many bugs besides flying mammoths? even if it shows up in local stores in 2 days, maybe it would be smarter to wait for patches?

[JonCole]

Just eating the ingredients raw probably randomly reveals effects too? I haven't really bothered with that. (It probably also still raises your alchemy skill a tiny bit, which it did in Morrowind and Oblivion.)

It's actually only the first effect, so eating an ingredient for the first time is essentially the equivalent of the base attribute being visible in Oblivion at Novice level.

[Sno]

I have skipped most of your posts in fear of spoilers. I read that elmuerte had some crashes, but are there many bugs besides flying mammoths? even if it shows up in local stores in 2 days, maybe it would be smarter to wait for patches?

In twenty hours of play, the worst thing i've seen is a dead dragon skeleton kind of shuffling around and clipping through stuff. So standard ragdoll quirks.

The game seems incredibly solid, but i say that it "seems" to be solid because there's so much content to see that i haven't seen. So i just don't know. (I have a friend telling me that he thinks he broke a quest in Riften.)

Also, nobody is really talking about story things, so i'm sure you're not at risk of spoilers right now. If i personally start discussing any of the quest line narratives, i'll make proper use of the spoiler tags.

Edited November 14, 2011 by Sno

[Forbin]

Yeah I've got to say that there's an excellent level of stability compared to all other Bethesda games. I had one sketchy moment where I zoned into a new area, it auto-saved and i hit quick save at the same time, but I feel like that was somewhat reasonable. The fact that I felt comfortable doing something like that should be an indicator of their improvements.

I'm trying to debate the benefits of becoming a warewolf. I'm fairly certain that if I do, I'll end up fighting vampires. I do not want to catch vampirism.

[Sno]

I'm trying to debate the benefits of becoming a warewolf. I'm fairly certain that if I do, I'll end up fighting vampires. I do not want to catch vampirism.

I've heard repeated stories of people thinking being a vampire would be awesome, going and becoming a vampire, and immediately spending the next many hours trying to undo it because it makes the game so much more difficult.

Which is sort of awesome, that it actually matters and changes the game, but doesn't seem like something people should be trying for when they first start playing.

I have no idea what being a werewolf entails in the game.

[Murdoc]

Which is sort of awesome, that it actually matters and changes the game, but doesn't seem like something people should be trying for when they first start playing.

I have no idea what being a werewolf entails in the game.

Being a vampire ended my game in Oblivion, it was a real downer and the cure was impossible.

I didn't want to become a werewolf in Skyrim but did. So far, I can completely ignore it because the drawback is minor and being one isn't great... I just wanted to see the quest line keep going. So far... I could have done without it.

[Sno]

Being a vampire ended my game in Oblivion, it was a real downer and the cure was impossible.

Really? It's been a while since i played Oblivion last, but as long as you kept feeding on NPC's, it shouldn't have interfered with anything.

It seems they've made the downsides significantly more pronounced for Skyrim.

[Orv]

I am absolutely in love with this game.

Potential Kinda-Spoilers

On the subject of werewolves V. vampirism, becoming a werewolf is actually a Once Per Day power in Skyrim, as opposed to an uncontrollable transformation every night at 9PM. Vampirism still has the incubation time, so as long as you can get to a temple in time, you'll be fine.

As for being a werewolf itself, I don't know what you're talking about Murdoc. The power attacks as a werewolf against humanoid enemies are absolutely amazing. You get such a huge Stamina boost while being a werewolf that you can keep entire groups of people bowled over while you leisurely murder them.

[Gwardinen]

As for being a werewolf itself, I don't know what you're talking about Murdoc. The power attacks as a werewolf against humanoid enemies are absolutely amazing. You get such a huge Stamina boost while being a werewolf that you can keep entire groups of people bowled over while you leisurely murder them.

Yeah I use werewolf form for when I'm having trouble with a humanoid or a group of humanoid enemies. As a mage it's nice to have a button that makes me into a crazy physical monster (literally). That said I never use it if I don't have to since you can't skill up at all in werewolf form and you have to go back over any ground you cover in a dungeon in your natural form to actually search and loot everything.

[.Automatisch]

I didn't want to become a werewolf in Skyrim but did. So far, I can completely ignore it because the drawback is minor and being one isn't great... I just wanted to see the quest line keep going. So far... I could have done without it.

This has been a sort of running theme in my playthrough. I felt like the game was making choices for me, and there were times where my character was doing something that I didn't exactly decide on. There should be a way to finish a story without taking all the control away from the player.

Either way, beat the main quest and some of the bigger ones so now I'm just sort of blowing through the guilds and messin' around. Not a big fan of the leveling system but I'm sure some mods will fix that down the road.

[Brannigan]

I almost never werewolf just because I can machine gun arrows and make people stagger with them now. I basically have used it to run fast through a dungeon, but then had to wait for it to wear off so I could actually do the thing I was going to do there.

[.Automatisch]

I haven't activated Werewolf outside of one time when I was just testing it out. It was okay I guess, but with a ton of armor and 2h specialization I never had any problems killing things in this game outside of Giants. Dragons are 10x easier to kill than Giants, which makes absolutely no sense.

[juv3nal]

Do I need to keep the dragon scales and bones from that first dragon for anything? Or are there enough dragons around later on when you actually do need them that it doesn't matter if I don't hang onto this first set?

They're heavy and my mage is weak. So far, I've been offloading stuff on Lydia while around town, but I kind of don't want her to come along adventuring because I'm afraid she's squishy and I'd rather not be responsible for her death.