Wii too wee?

[toblix]

So, do you think Nintendo hit the right spot, technologically, with the Wii? It's obviously selling well, but could there be a growing number of people who bought one because "it was so fucking awesome, at half the price of the two others, and there's only one left in the store!", but are now missing more games, and the wiimote isn't that exciting anymore? I don't even have one, and I guess I'd like to play some more RE4, and Super Mario Galaxy seems really cool, but other than that I feel even the PS3 is starting to look more interesting.

Are developers (or publishers, rather) shunning the Wii? At first I thought that they were almost forced to make Wii games since it was so popular, but it's still just Nintendo making the good games for it, right? Is the hardware too weak, or is the wiimote too weird? Was it like this with the DS?

Do you think the big three will do the same thing with the next generation of hardware, with MS and Sony pushing pure power and Nintendo making the cheaper alternative?

[Roderick]

Interesting questions

I must admit that a year after its release [in Europe] it would appear so that it is once again Nintendo itself that dominates the scene qua games. A pity, actually. I couldn't easily conjure up an impressive list of third-party titles with the same status as a good Nintendo one. RE4 and Umbrella Chronicles. Raving Rabbids. And that's about it. I'm sure there are a few more, but the times seem eerily reminiscent of the Gamecube. Which is strange, because there should be huge third party support for one of the most popular machines.

It can't really be compared with the DS, because the Nintendo handhelds have always been supported quite well by third party stuff. The Castlevanias and the Phoenix Wrights; that sort of thing has always gone strong.

Personally, the Wii Remote has become a normal, functional, controller for me, but that was to be expected. I actually prefer it if a game makes subtle and light use of the moving and pointing tech nowadays than if it tries to be wild and Wario Ware-like. That was nice when we were all still excited about moving on our sofas, but now I like it if it's used as in Galaxy; verrrry subtle and verrry precise, and only tiny movements necessary. Something like Battalion Wars 2 is already far too involved; you really have to swing the Nunchuk left and right and up for the movement to be registered, and playing with those features is actually a pain in the ass, so I avoid jumping and rolling around.

Technologywise, I do think Nintendo made a wise move with the level. This way they could keep it cheap, and Galaxy easily proves you can do some brilliantly beautiful stuff with it. Just because most developers go for Gamecube-level graphics doesn't take away the fact that the Wii is capable of (what was it?) 5, 6 times that quality.

What will happen in the future is that the other consoles will drop in price and there will be an equilibrium, basically. I do hope third party support for the Wii blooms in the future, and by all means it's not so bad as I painted above because I just remembered a host of decent games like Trauma Center, Kororinpa, Zack & Wiki, etc. So the Wii will survive and it'll remain a perfectly valid console. Maybe not with the graphical longevity as the others, but I shouldn't worry for the next 3 years or so.

[Nachimir]

It went from no to yes (literally just before they sold out everywhere in the UK) to 50/50.

I played Far Cry Vengeance on one a few weeks ago and it *looked* a bit shit. I'd need more practice to tell if FPS with a wiimote and nunchuk is any good, but for now a wii isn't on my wishlist.

[Spaff]

remember that no one was developong for wii, but then switched over to it after the sales convinced them too, i guess those games will be along any time soon...

[SpiderMonkey]

No one I know wants to make Wii games. I guess it's that whole "it's not next-gen!" shit - from an artist's perspective or a programmer's perspective, it isn't. It's what you've already been doing since 2000, and you're ready for something new.

Spaff's point is solid - the crop of "oh shit we really missed the boat on this one" games should show up next Easter and then next Christmas. But it'll be interesting to see if the dev teams have been inspired to create awesome things, or if the publishers have said "oh it's a casual market, we needn't bother trying, so let's skimp on budget and dev time".

[twmac]

Still seeing a slow stream of shoddy PS2 ports entering shops.

The general trend right now seems to be 'Well we have to realease something for the Wii as it is so popular.'

This has not been translating to good third party games. Nintendo aren't helping any by not releasing some sensible and clear Manufacturer guidelines so that devs and publsihers can successfully submit their games either. Thus people are spending more time on game banners and handling error messages than dealing with game content.

[Scrobbs]

I'm waiting for Zak and Wiki: Barbaros' treasure hunt or something. Eurogamer gave it a 9 and they're generally quite tight. They also said the control system is more inventive than what nintendo themselves have come up with. Due for release in jan.

[brkl]

I expect great things from WiiWare. Also, Wii would be the system I'd be most interested in developing for. Then again, I'm not and likely will never be a game developer.

[Scrobbs]

Did I mention I have one for sale?

[Nachimir]

Yeah, I hear that for the next few months Nintendo are selling them all on ebay instead of sending them to retailers.

[Thrik]

The Wii has definitely met my expectations and delivered some fantastic games, with fantastic ones on the horizon. Unfortunately, as with most Nintendo consoles they're all first-party titles, and I honestly can't imagine more serious games like the type you get on the other two consoles (Assassin's Creed, Kane & Lynch, etc) working with the relatively limited hardware.

Even complex physics and such would be tricky as the CPU isn't that great either, as well as environments with a shitload on the screen at once (Mario Galaxy cleverly evades with this its planet concept).

I'm sure I'll feel I've gotten my money's worth over the life of the console (Mario Kart and Smash Bros alone will give me a lot of joy), but I definitely look forward to the future of the next generation more than I look forward to the future of this one.

The PS3 and 360 have great graphics, but that controller will never become something I'm comfortable with using for the crazy FPS and RTS games I enjoy on the PC.

Conversely, the Wii's controller is absolutely ideal for such games and the concept bridges the gap between PC and console controls a lot, but the hardware isn't capable of running the crazy FPS and RTS games I enjoy on the PC.

What I really want is a console that employs both. I'm hoping Nintendo themselves will succeed the Wii with a console that's more competitive on the hardware front as they did with essentially other home console before the Wii, and has a fine-tuned iteration of the Wiimote concept. Of course, I'd be just as happy with Sony and Microsoft both ripping the Wiimote concept off so the whole pointing thing becomes just as standardised as d-pads, analogue sticks, and game pads.

The Wii's biggest problem is basically that you sacrifice hardware for the lovely controls, while with the PS3 you do the opposite. I see this generation as a time of great innovation, and think we'll enjoy the fruits of that after this generation.

[Erkki]

I agree with Thrik.

[a bit off topic rant]

Also, I think the Wiimote is such a great concept that it could even work for many other living-room devices, such as digital TV boxes, TVs, DVD players etc. -- of course it would probably need a few more buttons, but most interfaces could be moved to the screen. I'd really like to get rid of the pile of different remotes on my living room table, but would the hardware manufacturers ever agree on a standard remote?

[miffy495]

I'm not so sure. As much as I love the Wiimote for shooters and (if I were into the genre) probably would for RTSes, I don't think I'd be completely ok with having the pointer/motion-sensor/remote design become the standard and be adopted by Sony and Microsoft. It has it's place, certainly, but so do the more traditional controls. I can't see myself feeling entirely comfortable playing something like Earth Defense Force, Crackdown, or even Forza 2 with a remote setup. Bioshock on the other hand would have been great, especially with the dual hand mechanic being supplied by the remote and nunchuck. While I wish the Wii was a bit more powerful and could handle the upper end graphical stuff, I also think we'd lose a lot of playability on the sorts of games that I got my 360 for were the interface brought in to them. Some styles of gameplay just aren't meant for pointers, ditto for controllers. While it's fantastic that we have the option for it, widespread adoption of the wiimote mechanics would do more harm than good in my opinion.

[Thrik]

I honestly can't see this from your perspective at all, miffy.

Playing those games with a Wiimote sounds great to me, and much more intuitive than the game pads. It's not like you have to actually use the pointing mechanism or motion sensing in every game; simply falling back to the analogue stick and buttons is perfectly acceptable, and already happening in Wii games. That wouldn't make it that much different from using the existing pads, except more comfortable. Critically though, the pointer would be there for games that do make good use of it.

I now absolutely hate the game pad way of playing games, where your hands come together to hold it and you're kind of rigid in how you can hold it. The beauty of the Wiimote is that you can hold it in practically any totally-relaxed position you like, even when using the pointer (you don't have to do it like those dicks on the TV adverts -- resting it on your leg/lap/anything and moving your wrist is still perfectly fine).

I honestly see no benefit of the older game pads over the Wiimote, and cannot think of any game where the controls couldn't translate over just as well or better. I am vehemently for seeing it completely take over.

[brkl]

Turns out the Wii is 13.5x more awesome than I ever suspected:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw

Watch all of it.

[manny_c44]

Turns out the Wii is 13.5x more awesome than I ever suspected:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw

Watch all of it.

It would be so cheap to implement, I bet developers will seriously consider using such a system pretty soon. I mean all that the player requires is an extra controller, a little plastic stand to aim it at himself and some 50 cent packed-in LED glasses.

[Nappi]

That's pretty much the most awesome Wii trick I have ever seen.

[vimes]

This guy is a genius at HCI.Period.

[Nachimir]

He's excellent, check his other videos to see some finger tracking he did with a wiimote a while ago.

[miffy495]

Ho. Ly. Fuck. That is so damned cool.

[ThunderPeel2001]

This. Guy. Is. A. GENIUS!!!!

[Thrik]

Excellent!

[twmac]

Someone showed me his website:

johnnylee.net

It has info on making the things as well as helpful videos.

I would love to use this system to draw stuff on my laptop as it would be better and more feasible than carrying a scanner around with me all the time.

[Roderick]

One of the few really good third-party games on the Wii, Zack & Wiki, got put into the 'puzzle and parlor games' bracket in the Gametrailers game awards for 2007. Jesus

I didn't know where else to put this, and a new topic would have been excessive.

[Marek]

It's not a puzzle game?