Starcraft 2

[CaptainFish]

I just can't agree. The story elements of StarCraft II are completely unbearable to me. I really find some of these scenes, like the

one where Kerrigan and Zera-Tul meet

to be almost embarrassing to watch in their stupidity and awkwardness.

See, now I'm wondering if it's just me having bad taste or lower expectations, but I rewatched that specific scene in question (the high quality cg one), and while it's very movie trailer-y (and Zack Snyder-y), I don't find anything reprehensible about it. Is it the monologue/dialogue, the whole prophecy angle being clichéd, the way the scene is an action scene/conversation? With what that cinematic is trying to set up, I'm not sure how they could've made it less dumb. I guess I could've checked out as soon as they start mentioning prophecies, but it's mostly just a rehashing of what was already foreshadowed/said in SC and Brood War.

Although I did have problems with parts of it, I overall liked the story stuff of SC 2, but with these strong reactions against it, I'm starting to worry that I'm giving it a free pass because it's Starcraft.

Edited August 15, 2010 by CaptainFish

[Roderick]

Chris and Karimi, thank you.

As for the story, I partly agree. I liked it just fine, especially the ingame cutscenes. I didn't mind good old boy Raynor at all, I liked it for what it was. The prerendered cinematics though were almost without exception really off. I couldn't quite tell why, but where earlier Blizzard games always had me drooling over them, this time they seemed so lame. Perhaps it was the added 'cartoony' element (

Zeratul and his anime antics, or Kerrigan goofily talking into her microphone during her downfall, asking where the backup is

) that didn't gel with the high fidelity graphics, or that they just don't fit the tempo of the rest of the game. They were completely overshadowed by the fantastic ingame cutscenes in any case.

How could you not like that barfight between Tychus and Raynor?

[Hero Protagonist]

Blizzard's stories are usually melodramatic and trite. I honestly can't recall ever enjoying the story in a Blizzard game; luckily the polish and gameplay makes up for it.

There are certainly elements of the respective universes that I enjoy, but they tend to be the more obscure and less fleshed-out aspects. I don't think this is a coincidence, as I think it relates to an aspect of writing that most writers (should) understand. Half of the story takes place in the audience's mind, and when you write something that doesn't jive with the the audience's preconceived notions it can be a pretty big disappointment.

Unfortunately I just really, really dislike the fundamental direction they took with Scraft II's direction. That paired with the over-the-top style really makes me generally disinterested in the game. Hopefully it improves with the coming campaigns, but I've all but written them off already.

The thing that bothers me the most is actually the voice overs, but most especially the Zerg. In Scraft each Zerg unit had a distinct callout sound, but I have a lot of trouble distinguishing them in 2. Anyone else notice or feel this way?

[Forbin]

I just can't agree. The story elements of StarCraft II are completely unbearable to me. I really find some of these scenes, like the

one where Kerrigan and Zera-Tul meet

to be almost embarrassing to watch in their stupidity and awkwardness. I'm sure it sounds like I'm playing it up for the sake of hyperbole, but I'm really not. I can't remember the last time I found a game's story so poor. I do agree that Dawn of War II's story is certainly no better, but the difference is that Dawn of War II really doesn't have that story front and center at all. Blizzard REALLY wants me to know what's happening in its universe, in a way Relic doesn't seem as obsessed with highlighting.

I don't know what you were expecting, but I feel like maybe you've got a higher standard for this game for some reason. Maybe it's because Blizzard is so in love with it's story, and I'd say that's a fair complaint. But when you hold this up to other games, there's nothing really that jumps out at me and says "this game has shit story".

I can name a few that are better, certainly in the dialogue department, but I wouldn't say SC2 is sub par. On an overall level, the setting is fairly unique (or at least was when it was first established for SC), the plot is fairly straightforward, but the sub-plots provide some variety. The characters (other than maybe Valerian and the Doctor) have some semblance of reason and motivation. There are cliches, terrible one-liners and some crude allegory, but in my opinion it doesn't really ever get in the way of the game.

I don't think it's great, but I don't see why you think it's so bad. Especially when you compare it to any other game.

Mass Effect 2 had better dialogue in general, but it also had all the same weaknesses that SC2 has. Some characters were just painful to interact with. It's ending was a fucking mess, with the

human terminator

. And though I enjoyed the world, the plot really was kinda simplistic.

Some aliens are attacking humans, build team to attack their home base. But surprise, there is an even bigger enemy behind it, and they're coming for the sequel.

I could list more, but my point is that even the games that people consider to be the highest quality have a lot of weaknesses, and are just as guilty as StarCraft of being video games.

[Lu]

Not so much a higher standard for this game in specific (not talking for Chris), but a higher standard from Blizzard. For a game that is so polished on almost all fronts, it's the story/storytelling and writing that sticks out like a sore thumb.

Does comparing it to other games somehow make it less awful than it is? It's absolutely useless to me, to point to other games and compare, as those are not games we are talking about. It's a bit of a non-point to me.

Edit:

Uh, sorry if I came off as a bit strong there.

Edited August 15, 2010 by PiratePooAndHisBattleship

[Forbin]

I think it's valid to compare it to other games, the context is implied whenever you're talking about anything. Take any game, and tell me you would be able to sit through it as a movie, or read through it as a book. There's a complex balance of gameplay, immersion and exposition that makes up a games story, so it's kind of unfair to compare it to anything else but other games without some allowances.

All I'm saying is that if you're looking for a game that is going to re-invent story telling, then that expectation should be focused on games like Heavy Rain that make it their main goal.

What does SC2 do so poorly that almost every other game hasn't done in the past 2 years?

[Karimi]

What does SC2 do so poorly that almost every other game hasn't done in the past 2 years?

Innovative gameplay for one ?

The writing in general is terrible for a game of its production values, sure other games may not be as good but they aim to do what SC2 set out to.

[Lork]

I think it's valid to compare it to other games, the context is implied whenever you're talking about anything. Take any game, and tell me you would be able to sit through it as a movie, or read through it as a book. There's a complex balance of gameplay, immersion and exposition that makes up a games story, so it's kind of unfair to compare it to anything else but other games without some allowances.

All I'm saying is that if you're looking for a game that is going to re-invent story telling, then that expectation should be focused on games like Heavy Rain that make it their main goal.

What does SC2 do so poorly that almost every other game hasn't done in the past 2 years?

I think it's a matter of there being a certain threshold of quality beyond which it really doesn't matter what's better than what. Is the story in Starcraft 2 better than the one in Gears of War? Maybe, but they're both so bad that I can't bring myself to care at all about either, so the differences between them are largely academic.

[Hero Protagonist]

It's really a non sequitor argument; because other games have terrible stories SCraft 2's horrible story gets a pass? Absolutely not.

Regardless, the superiority of story in other games is too subjective a topic, I could point to a dozen games that I feel were more compelling and you could dismiss all of them for purely subjective reasons.

I will briefly touch on the example you raise, Mass Effect 2, because I do feel it is superior for a number of reasons. Is it perfect? No. Terrible characters like Jack are really obnoxious and detract from it greatly. However, for ever Jack there is a Garrus - a character that I feel was a really complex, motivated, and engaging. Mass Effect 2 is superior because it is so sprawling and open; even if you hate Garrus there are probably 2 characters that you really enjoy, and I believe that this is what BioWare was trying to do. They create a wide variety of stereotypes so that there is something for everyone.

There is none of that in SCraft 2; I can't avoid Raynor or Kerrigan in SCraft2's story.

[Karimi]

It's really a non sequitor argument; because other games have terrible stories SCraft 2's horrible story gets a pass? Absolutely not.

Regardless, the superiority of story in other games is too subjective a topic, I could point to a dozen games that I feel were more compelling and you could dismiss all of them for purely subjective reasons.

I will briefly touch on the example you raise, Mass Effect 2, because I do feel it is superior for a number of reasons. Is it perfect? No. Terrible characters like Jack are really obnoxious and detract from it greatly. However, for ever Jack there is a Garrus - a character that I feel was a really complex, motivated, and engaging. Mass Effect 2 is superior because it is so sprawling and open; even if you hate Garrus there are probably 2 characters that you really enjoy, and I believe that this is what BioWare was trying to do. They create a wide variety of stereotypes so that there is something for everyone.

There is none of that in SCraft 2; I can't avoid Raynor or Kerrigan in SCraft2's story.

Same is true for Dragon Age, and maybe even Planescape. Sometimes what makes an RPG or a story in general is not the major plot, but the side-quests and characters. I know a few people who thought HK-47 made KoToR for them.

[Forbin]

It's a shame you can't avoid Raynor, 'cause his over the top alcoholism is really the weakest point of the whole game. That and

Tychus' sudden but inevitable betrayal

.

I'm not saying that other games are bad so SC2 isn't, what I'm saying is that SC2 is pretty much on par and doesn't deserve to be specifically called out. From the second we saw our first space trucker the tone was set on this franchise, and though the guys at Blizzard may get carried away about how awesome their storylines are, I don't see why people are expecting much more.

And if we're not going to compare it to other games, why not compare it to the original? StarCraft had a bunch of crap, and that goes double for Brood War. Maybe it was because some of us were young, maybe it's because nobody else really put that much effort into the backstory of their games, maybe we were more tolerant.

I can see how some characters could be grating, and I'm not saying it's Citizen Kane*. But giving it the leeway I give every other video game, I felt compelled to go through every dialogue option after each mission, the same way I did in Mass Effect.

*Metroid Prime

[Karimi]

And if we're not going to compare it to other games, why not compare it to the original? StarCraft had a bunch of crap, and that goes double for Brood War. Maybe it was because some of us were young, maybe it's because nobody else really put that much effort into the backstory of their games, maybe we were more tolerant.

Brood War was terrible but I thought SC1 by and large was pretty well put together. Just as an example - Mengsk's speeches and outbursts from the first game seem much more menacing than his rage-quit during his press conference in SC2.

[Roderick]

Yup. SC1's Mengsk speeches (and Brood War intro cinematic) were spine-chilling and struck the right tone. Mengsk never seemed quite as bad this time.

[Sleepdance]

The interesting thing about DoW2 is that it tells the story inside the world, that the player has to take for granted, with all of(from real life perspective) violent, hardcore stuff. If the player wants to expirience the story he has to agree with the game about the rules on which the wold operates. And inside those rules, the story of DoW2 is very, very good.

Starcraft on the other hand just throws at you tons of story, without ever caring for the player's emotions(aka, how he should as Raynor fell about specific things). The cuonseqence is that player is completly lost and doesn't have the energy to process the good parts of the narative because he is just mentally overburdene.

[Forbin]

The interesting thing about DoW2 is that it tells the story inside the world, that the player has to take for granted, with all of(from real life perspective) violent, hardcore stuff. If the player wants to expirience the story he has to agree with the game about the rules on which the wold operates. And inside those rules, the story of DoW2 is very, very good.

Starcraft on the other hand just throws at you tons of story, without ever caring for the player's emotions(aka, how he should as Raynor fell about specific things). The cuonseqence is that player is completly lost and doesn't have the energy to process the good parts of the narative because he is just mentally overburdene.

I am stunned you can assert that "the story of DoW2 is very, very good", and then turn around and slam StarCraft. Besides the fact that DoW2 is prettymuch StarCraft + space orcs (which i guess is just WarHammer40k - Space Orcs to begin with), DoW2 has terrible mission briefings.

"We believe that the Ork Rippa Splitta, is in this town, go kill him."

[Sleepdance]

In Starcraft the story just fells forced, while in DoW2 it fits perfectly in the world(if it would stand on it's own it would be realy realy bad).

[Hero Protagonist]

I'll certainly agree that DoW2's narrative is consistent with the setting, but I don't know if I would agree that it's better than Scraft2. It's harder to judge Scraft, since there are really only 2.5 entries in the setting, versus the hundreds in Warhammer 40k.

[Lu]

So here is this bag of shit and here I have another bag of shit; which smells worse?

[Forbin]

http://www.pentadact.com/index.php/2010-08-18-this-is-all-i-can-think-during-starcraft-2s-cut-scenes

I love the comments.

they're all curled like babies in the chest compartment and work the arms/legs with little game pads.

[Irishjohn]

In Starcraft the story just fells forced, while in DoW2 it fits perfectly in the world(if it would stand on it's own it would be realy realy bad).

I agree with this. DOW2 is definitely goofy, but to be fair, they kind of got there first.

I don't mean for this devolve into "this scene good, that scene bad" but I actually didn't mind

Kerrigan and Zeratul

at all, while I thought the

Tychus/Raynor barfight

was unbelievably bad.

[Irishjohn]

...and though the guys at Blizzard may get carried away about how awesome their storylines are, I don't see why people are expecting much more.

They really, really do. They love talking about how into the "lore" the fans are. Granted, that's a suitable term for fantasy franchises, and there's a lot of WOW fans (as well as Diablo and SC fans) pumping stuff out, but it's a bit much.

[elmuerte]

Is it just me or is the music in this game quite terrible?

I mean, it sounds like they just grabbed a bunch of songs a put it in the game.

Note: I've only listened to the OST so far, haven't actually played the a real game (just a few tutorials).

[Hero Protagonist]

I didn't mind the music in-game, the voice overs are more jarring for me.

[elmuerte]

actually.. in game I don't really notice the music, but the western theme on the bridge and stuff is just unfitting.

As for the voice overs.. yes, they could use a better randomizer.

Anywho. It has been a long time I've really played an RTS. The last RTS games I actually completed were Warcraft 2 and C&C1.

So far I'm enjoying SC2.

[Sleepdance]

I see no reason criticising game's soundtrack outside the game, since the hole pourpuse of it is to contribute to the players enyoement of the game. But it is also nice when you can listen to it outside the game and still be amazed(Bioshock).