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I think we understand what your problems are — we just don't agree with them. Us agreeing with you doesn't equate to you satisfactorily explaining your perspective. :yep:

I can understand why you might expect more from a game that could be anything and still sell well, but I've not played Starcraft 2 yet because I knew it'd be a lot like Starcraft 1. And while I respect what SC1 achieved, it's just not my type of RTS. I prefer something more stategic, slower, and macro. That doesn't mean that SC2 is inferior to the type of RTS I'd prefer it to be, it's just I'm in a different market.

It's important to remember that RTS games aren't just a single type of game where everyone plays every single one (although that wouldn't be too difficult nowadays) and judges them all as a single linear evolution. If you want something else than check out what Relic, Gas Powered Games, and even EA have been doing. Just like some people preferred Commandos to Command & Conquer back in the day (Me!), some prefer Starcraft 2's formula to whatever you wish it was. That fact it is just a refinement of SC1 is exactly what those people want.

It's a bit like expecting the new Call of Duty: Black Ops to be anything but more of what CoD: Modern Warfare and CoD: Modern Warfare 2 offered. Sure it could be some insanely innovative first-person shooter that evolves the series and genre in all sorts of unexpected ways, but that's not really what Call of Duty is. CoD is actually archaic in its design and continues to massively resemble its 90s Medal of Honor roots, but people continue to love it because they know what they're getting and they're getting what they know.

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*Thrik's post*

Yeah, that about covers it.

I think another major problem for me is that I'm sort of bitter. While I was playing AoE2 and RoN and even Empire Earth The First, everyone else in the world was playing SC:BW. And any time for the last decade that "excellent strategy games" comes up. . .SC:BW.

I don't like the damn game, partially because I don't want to sink 300 hours into it to be able to compete effectively, partially because by the time I got into it, it was violently dated (graphics don't bug me in RTS, but the systems certainly did) and partially because Fuck Starcraft, FFS. ("Can you recommend a good RTS?" "Duuuuude *Puff* have you tried Starcraft, maaaaaan?")

So yes, reverse-old man. I'm sticking with that theory.

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I don't like the damn game, partially because I don't want to sink 300 hours into it to be able to compete effectively, partially because by the time I got into it.
But this is exactly what Bnet 2.0 solves. First, the 50 practice matches are filled with absolutely nobody but newbs, you have rocks protecting you base and will never be rushed. Then you play 5 placement matches to put you in a division, and within a few matches you should be playing against only people at your own ability.

If you don't want to play SC2 that's fine. But it is strange to criticize it for things it's actually fixed, and call it old-fashioned.

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But this is exactly what Bnet 2.0 solves. First, the 50 practice matches are filled with absolutely nobody but newbs, you have rocks protecting you base and will never be rushed. Then you play 5 placement matches to put you in a division, and within a few matches you should be playing against only people at your own ability.

If you don't want to play SC2 that's fine. But it is strange to criticize it for things it's actually fixed, and call it old-fashioned.

But see, I am a crazy person. I put thousands of hours into Age of Mythology, learning everything about every civilization/major god pairing. I got my ass kicked constantly for several months. But I genuinely enjoyed the process.

Another example is my recent stint in Mount and Blade Warfare mod cRPG, which forces you to level up and buy equipment. I've been dying horrible, bloody deaths for a couple days now, and just now have started killing people.

I enjoy those activities. I do not (to a point of headaches and anger whilst playing) enjoy SC2 enough to do that. And the rocks in "noob matches" is foolish and stupid (IMO.)

As for the criticism of it being old-fashioned, I think everyone has sufficiently picked that apart, but I still do not feel it has contributed anything to the genre aside from a giant wave of "OMG STARCRAFT" all over again.

I'm weird, I have weird views that don't really make sense. Whatever. Human. Etc. Suffice to say, I am not pleased with SC2.

P.S. Upon reading the above post, I sound like a bloody zealot. I stick by it.

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Hey, there's a Starcraft II demo out!

Is it worth it to give Blizzard all of my personal information and play it if I didn't like any of their previous games?

I did play through the Warcraft and Warcraft II demos years ago, so that's something, I guess.

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Anyone still playing the ladder? I've been on and off the ladder since launch, playing 2-3 games a week or so and still in bronze. However I did just find these beginner guide videos, and they're awesome: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=330787

He really lays it down simply and provides firm benchmarks to aim for. I really like his approach and am having more success on the ladder after following his guide.

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Anyone still playing the ladder? I've been on and off the ladder since launch, playing 2-3 games a week or so and still in bronze. However I did just find these beginner guide videos, and they're awesome: http://www.teamliqui...topic_id=330787

He really lays it down simply and provides firm benchmarks to aim for. I really like his approach and am having more success on the ladder after following his guide.

My forays back in are sporadic at best. I simply don't have the time to keep up unlike when I was a studentor unemployed.custom gamesare still great though, I have a lot of fun with mono battles and star battle. I will try and back in come hots.

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My forays back in are sporadic at best. I simply don't have the time to keep up unlike when I was a studentor unemployed.custom gamesare still great though, I have a lot of fun with mono battles and star battle. I will try and back in come hots.

The difference with StarCraft II I feel is the matchmaking. Is there another game that still has enough players 2 years after launch and still matches you with players of equal skill. I'm still having 40 minute games of full on panic mode and then I end up winning. That goes for team games as well, had a 40 minute close 2v2 game just yesterday.

That's at least what keeps me going... love it.

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I actually had a fairly long stint of SC2 for a while, contrary to my opinions expressed... man, a year and a half ago now, and enjoyed it reasonably well. I didn't stick with it though, because I found a different problem with SC2 in that at a certain level it becomes too mechanical and spreadsheet. But I enjoyed what I played of it, and have been considering going back, especially since a couple friends are on the warpath to get me to be the Zerg to their 'toss in 3v3. And with the negation of an MMO in my daily gaming routine, I need something to just pop on and play a few minutes of, and a match-made RTS fits the bill nicely.

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Starcraft 1 is my favorite game of all time and I kept trying to find the time to dedicate to getting good at SC2, but I always had that ladder anxiety to actually just go and play the damn game, and eventually i've drifted away

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Starcraft 1 is my favorite game of all time and I kept trying to find the time to dedicate to getting good at SC2, but I always had that ladder anxiety to actually just go and play the damn game, and eventually i've drifted away

I feel the conflict within you. Let go of your fear. The fear of loss is a path to the Dark Side.

:) I always have goals other than victory, at least do one sweet drop or something with a cloaked unit, nothing more satisfying than catching a base without detection. Or be creative...

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The incoming expansion could be a very good reason for someone who have left the game to come back to it. For me this series has always been the most fun to play at the time when new strategies could be invented - not just the... execution of existing strategies. Let's see what kind of new tactics will open up with the new units... So, how do you like them so far?

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The incoming expansion could be a very good reason for someone who have left the game to come back to it. For me this series has always been the most fun to play at the time when new strategies could be invented - not just the... execution of existing strategies. Let's see what kind of new tactics will open up with the new units... So, how do you like them so far?

I can see Zerg becoming way too strong and protoss have become too strong. I won't be able to tell until the beta, but the terran units, seem crap.

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If you're looking for ways to improve your play I'd recommend this guide by CecilSunkure, How to Improve Efficiently. It has some sections about mindset that are very useful in getting over ladder anxiety.

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"I'm gone. And you'd better come with me. There's no telling who Arcturus'll screw over next."

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Sweet! Blizzard has so much money, when they host a tournament it's awesome. I'm really happy that blizzard has gotten into supporting the esport scene in SC2, they pretty much ignored it in SC1 and that scene grew huge despite that.

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Awesome, DeMuslim and Bling should be the favorites, don't recognize any other names there, apart from Lau maybe I've seen his stream before.

Ziktomini went to Dreamhack and got to Ro32, he went as JonnyRecco couldn't. Plus Tastosis!!

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