Recommended Posts

I have stuff I want to say about the bathhouse scene, mostly about how most of the "intriguing" details seem more like stock anime tropes to me, but I'm holding off to see if they actually are. Yeah, I'm a coward.

 

What's actually bothering me most about KILL la KILL right now is that there's no real consistency to Ryuuko's power curve. I've watched enough shounen stuff to expect Ryuuko to trust Senketsu more, to learn new techniques with the scissor blade, and generally become a better fighter. KILL la KILL pays a lot of lip service to that, but I have no idea how strong Ryuuko really is, beyond what the writers say through their various mouthpieces. As shown in her fights with Satsuki and Harime Nui (ugh), she is just as strong as she need to be for the next thing to happen how it does, with the only exception being her berserking out during the Devas fight. I hate to say it, but it distances me from Ryuuko and her arc not to know where she stands as a fighter, her central character trait, in relation to her adversaries. I don't know, does any of that make sense?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

syntheticgerbil: To be honest, the bathhouse scene doesn't... doesn't bother me at all. On the surface it's really fucking awkward, and I definitely wouldn't want someone just walking in on me watching that - HOLY WOULD THAT BE AWKWARD - but within the context of the show, I just... I sort of liked it. It felt right because it was so awkward. I don't know. U:

 

Gormongous: I've noticed the same thing, but I guess I have the complete opposite reaction? Heh. The convenience of always just being powerful enough without bothering to explain just how powerful she is makes it all the more appealing to me precisely because I've seen so much shounen stuff/crap.

 

Speaking of shounen, I'm... really enjoying Hunter x Hunter. I'm sort of ashamed to say that. But not really because fuck all y'alls.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frankly, I'd rather have a lightning paced show like Kill la Kill where Ryuuko is as strong as she need instead of the DBZ days where combat was 200 episodes of training and 200 episodes of fighting the enemy. :|

 

But the show does show that she is stronger, she can take out "one star students" without the help of Senketsu, I think the problem is with Satsuki, she's fought so little it's hard to tell how strong she really is.

 

I saw a screencap of Hunter X Hunter when on Crunckyroll when the episode of Kill la Kill ended, it was giant goofy octopus... I'm kinda intrigued about the show now? But I think Soul Eater and Dangan Ronpa and higher on my list of shows to catch up on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Speaking of shounen, I'm... really enjoying Hunter x Hunter. I'm sort of ashamed to say that. But not really because fuck all y'alls.

 

Hunter x Hunter is brill. I'm loving it. I've heard a lot of things about the Chimera Ant Arc being lame, but I'm really enjoying it. Although I'm feeling that it's slowed down a lot recently? This arc is certainly a lot longer than any of the previous ones. Maybe they're worried they'll catch up to the manga? Given the authors track record of writing no chapters for months at a time, it seems plausible. 

 

Greed Island was an awkward arc. I remember it being awesome when I watched it years ago. Now I've watched more shows, the concept feels less and less original. Fuck you SAO.

 

I'd say it's streaks ahead of Soul Eater in terms of quality. It's different from Dangan Ronpa though. I really enjoyed that show.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just watched the latest Space Dandy and I'm 130% positive the show is not condoning the main character's "perviness", he NEVER gets the girl, he never even gets to grope a girl, the girls actually DON'T WANT TO BE GROPED! 

 

Am I mistaken or did the change the name of the "great evil flaming skull guy" from episode to episode, they are literally YELLING at your face. DO... NOT... TAKE.. US... SERIOUSLY!

 

I love how they handle the zombies trope in this episode, Space Dandy just ignored the ridiculously obvious signs of trouble, it also confirmed my suspicion that the "bad guys" will keep be taken out by what ever is trying to kill Space Dandy, which will make the bad guys fear him even more.

 

But seriously, the zombie episode is brilliant...  I think from the preview of the next episode might tackle sidekicks in some way? It's still too soon to know if every episode will tackle some sort of trope or not, but seeing how well they do it, I hope they do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys, I need some recommendarions on animes. I want a more slice of life, dramatic thing, with a nice character development without a focus on fantasy and stuff.

I really want to watch something like "NHK ni youkoso", that was such an amazing series. I suffered from social anxiety, so I could relate nicely to theme.

Another animes Among my favorites are Cowboy Bebop and Evangelion.

I heard "Flowers of evil" is pretty good, been willing to check it out. Is there any other recommendation?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys, I need some recommendarions on animes. I want a more slice of life, dramatic thing, with a nice character development without a focus on fantasy and stuff.

I really want to watch something like "NHK ni youkoso", that was such an amazing series. I suffered from social anxiety, so I could relate nicely to theme.

Another animes Among my favorites are Cowboy Bebop and Evangelion.

I heard "Flowers of evil" is pretty good, been willing to check it out. Is there any other recommendation?

 

read the manga of flowers of evil. Don't watch the anime. It's awful.

 

As for more slice of life stuff, check out Clannad, then Clannad After story. Bring tissues.

 

Also Kids on the Slope (Sakamichi no Appolon) is very good. I also really liked Natsuyuki Rendezvous for a more adult slice of life with drama plot. It's about a budding romance between a flower shop owner and a guy who can see the ghost of her dead husband. Sound contrived and rubbish, but it's pretty touching and sweet. 

 

Also check out Princess Jellyfish (Kuragehime). It's about a house of neets who are into different otaku subcultures who are all girls, called the 'amars'. One lass is really into Jellyfish, tries to save a jellyfish that has been incorrectly treated in a pet shop and runs into a cross dresser and love triangles ensue. It's really good. 

 

Oh and Also Space Brothers is neato, but long running. It's about brothers trying to be astronauts. It's funded by JAXA and everything, which is pretty cool. I kinda stopped watching it, but it's really good. Very slice of life, but it's about a really interesting career path.

 

Idk if any of them appeal to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also Kids on the Slope (Sakamichi no Appolon) is very good. I also really liked Natsuyuki Rendezvous for a more adult slice of life with drama plot. It's about a budding romance between a flower shop owner and a guy who can see the ghost of her dead husband. Sound contrived and rubbish, but it's pretty touching and sweet. 

 

Also check out Princess Jellyfish (Kuragehime). It's about a house of neets who are into different otaku subcultures who are all girls, called the 'amars'. One lass is really into Jellyfish, tries to save a jellyfish that has been incorrectly treated in a pet shop and runs into a cross dresser and love triangles ensue. It's really good.

 

I'll vouch for both of these and I'm ridiculously picky about my animus.

 

If you haven't seen it already and judging by the fact you like Evangelion and NHK you might want to get on Kare Kano (His & Her Circumstances) too. It's based on an okay romance manga only for some ungodly reason Hideaki Anno ended up directing it. Like, literally straight from End of Evangelion into doing what was supposed to be a fairly lighthearted love story. Suddenly these kids are DEEPLY FUCKED and desperately clinging to eachother to keep some sort of identity afloat and there are long arthouse shots of background scenery and I swear to god they introduce AT Field theory at one point. Unsurprisingly the mangaka wasn't super thrilled and Anno ended up leaving the project before it was done. Also notable for having one of the greatest intro tunes ever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys, I need some recommendarions on animes. I want a more slice of life, dramatic thing, with a nice character development without a focus on fantasy and stuff.

I really want to watch something like "NHK ni youkoso", that was such an amazing series. I suffered from social anxiety, so I could relate nicely to theme.

Another animes Among my favorites are Cowboy Bebop and Evangelion.

I heard "Flowers of evil" is pretty good, been willing to check it out. Is there any other recommendation?

A few good starters directly from the same studios/directors you've mentioned would perhaps be:

-FLCL

-Samurai Champloo

On a more general note we have.

Slice of Life:

-Kids on the Slope

-Honey and Clover

Anything by the late and great Satoshi Kon, but considering what you've said you like these would be good starters:

-Tokyo Godfathers

-Paranoia Agent

-Paprika

Mamoru Hosoda's modern stuf so:

-Summer Wars

(With very minimal fantasy elements)

-Girl Who Lept through time

-Wolf Children

Action with character development:

-Michiko to Hatchin

-Tekkon Kinkreet (thanks to SG for the correct spelling)

-Black Lagoon

Good Character development but with quite heavy SciFi/Fantasty elements:

-The Eccentric Family

-Planetes

-Mushishi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

syntheticgerbil: To be honest, the bathhouse scene doesn't... doesn't bother me at all. On the surface it's really fucking awkward, and I definitely wouldn't want someone just walking in on me watching that - HOLY WOULD THAT BE AWKWARD - but within the context of the show, I just... I sort of liked it. It felt right because it was so awkward. I don't know. U:

I think I'm slowly coming round to the idea that my initial reaction of feeling very uncomfortable having watched this May have been exactly what they wanted.

But there is still a lot I'm unsure about it.

Firstly it's probably worth remembering this Incident is not in the least unique within the greater context of Anime, just off the top of my head Evangelion has a scene where Gendo's hand enters Rei's chest (to implant a seed of Adam.....). Which although not quite as graphic, certainly shares similar overtones.

Additionally it's not a question of if showing this sort of thing is bad however it's done, the question is whether or not this particular use has any context in the story they are trying to tell, and whether that point they get across justifies its use.

This episode also wasn't the first time her mother has shown an unhealthy interest in her body. Whether that is the interest of a human who wants to posses her sexually, or of a incomprehensible alien intellect that wants to possess her body is another matter.

There Is some discussion in the thread over the entire idea of how powerful the protagonists and antagonist of this story are. The one thing the bathhouse seemed did make clear though is that her mother's power level is overwhelmingly higher than Satsuki's.

Whether you consider the coercion that occurs to come from a implied threat of violence, parental authority, social pressure/expectations, or some combination of them it's made clear Satsuki is afraid of her mother.

Additionally it's easy to forget the dialogue which is going on at the same time as the actions but if you even think about it for a second, for Raygo to lecture Satsuki about shame while doing what she does is quite sickening.

It's also clear that Satsuki I has been traumatised by the experience. Just one look at her face after it (as the image fades back from white at the 10min mark) is as close to heartbreaking as I think this particular shows ever going to get.

How this will fully affect a character has been previously depicted as a fearless and shameless warrior is anyone's guess. But if it does cause some change in the relationship she has with her battle uniform (who is called purity FFS )it will be hard to ignore.

So can this scene be redeemed? Yes it unquestionably can.

But will it? I still don't know. I do hope this doesn't lead to her being damsels in some way (if she ends up getting saved by Sanageyama it would make a farce of everything that's come up to now).

Maybe I'm naïve but it would be great to think we could end up with a story where a young woman recovers from this event supported by friends, is not judged by society, and is able to overcome it on her own terms before the end of the series.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys, I need some recommendarions on animes. I want a more slice of life, dramatic thing, with a nice character development without a focus on fantasy and stuff.

 

I haven't seen the anime based on it, but I've been reading Wandering Son and it's exactly this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just watched the latest Space Dandy and I'm 130% positive the show is not condoning the main character's "perviness", he NEVER gets the girl, he never even gets to grope a girl, the girls actually DON'T WANT TO BE GROPED! 

You realize that was never the problem, right? It's not about whether or not Dandy is a pervert. It's about the overt and constant fanservice. It doesn't matter if Dandy never gets the girl if the audience always does, in close and incredibly detailed form. Check out the curves on that ass, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I'm slowly coming round to the idea that my initial reaction of feeling very uncomfortable having watched this May have been exactly what they wanted.

But there is still a lot I'm unsure about it.

Firstly it's probably worth remembering this Incident is not in the least unique within the greater context of Anime, just off the top of my head Evangelion has a scene where Gendo's hand enters Rei's chest (to implant a seed of Adam.....). Which although not quite as graphic, certainly shares similar overtones.

Additionally it's not a question of if showing this sort of thing is bad however it's done, the question is whether or not this particular use has any context in the story they are trying to tell, and whether that point they get across justifies its use.

This episode also wasn't the first time her mother has shown an unhealthy interest in her body. Whether that is the interest of a human who wants to posses her sexually, or of a incomprehensible alien intellect that wants to possess her body is another matter.

There Is some discussion in the thread over the entire idea of how powerful the protagonists and antagonist of this story are. The one thing the bathhouse seemed did make clear though is that her mother's power level is overwhelmingly higher than Satsuki's.

Whether you consider the coercion that occurs to come from a implied threat of violence, parental authority, social pressure/expectations, or some combination of them it's made clear Satsuki is afraid of her mother.

Additionally it's easy to forget the dialogue which is going on at the same time as the actions but if you even think about it for a second, for Raygo to lecture Satsuki about shame while doing what she does is quite sickening.

It's also clear that Satsuki I has been traumatised by the experience. Just one look at her face after it (as the image fades back from white at the 10min mark) is as close to heartbreaking as I think this particular shows ever going to get.

How this will fully affect a character has been previously depicted as a fearless and shameless warrior is anyone's guess. But if it does cause some change in the relationship she has with her battle uniform (who is called purity FFS )it will be hard to ignore.

So can this scene be redeemed? Yes it unquestionably can.

But will it? I still don't know. I do hope this doesn't lead to her being damsels in some way (if she ends up getting saved by Sanageyama it would make a farce of everything that's come up to now).

Maybe I'm naïve but it would be great to think we could end up with a story where a young woman recovers from this event supported by friends, is not judged by society, and is able to overcome it on her own terms before the end of the series.

I share many of your thoughts and concerns, but given the series so far, and how many times the show's spat on my face for feeling a sense of dread about this or that trope, I feel like I can be confident that what happened here was not without a greater purpose. Maybe I'll get spat on for believing in Trigger, this time, but I prefer to remain optimistic for now!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it really? The show itself looks down at the characters who views the girls as eye candy. You can't look down at a pervert without eye candy, in the same way you can't have a show that shows you how disgusting violence can be without being disgustingly violent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can't look down at a pervert without eye candy

That's not true at all. And even if it was, the "eye candy" here is extremely gratuitous at times. It only JUST falls short of actually showing you naked women. One step further and that's what we'd have. It doesn't matter if Dandy's a pervert or if we're supposed to look down at him for it when the show treats every viewer as if they're just as perverted as Dandy himself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it really? The show itself looks down at the characters who views the girls as eye candy. You can't look down at a pervert without eye candy, in the same way you can't have a show that shows you how disgusting violence can be without being disgustingly violent.

 

 

That's not true at all. And even if it was, the "eye candy" here is extremely gratuitous at times. It only JUST falls short of actually showing you naked women. One step further and that's what we'd have. It doesn't matter if Dandy's a pervert or if we're supposed to look down at him for it when the show treats every viewer as if they're just as perverted as Dandy himself.

 

My own feelings on dandy is somewhere between the two of you. I don't think it's particularly strong or offensive fanservice, but indeed as has been said it is quite gratuitous since I don't think it really serves much of a purpose other than to make dandy look a little silly. Even if we are looking down on him a little its not as if his lechery/sillyness actually leads him into much trouble.

 

Actually thinking a bit more on it 

at the end of the last episode the young 'sidekick' vows to "grow up quickly" so she can appeal to dandy. Which is Kinda A: Creepy verging on grooming & B: Doesn't support the idea of Dandy's not getting the girl &/or getting punished for his lechery.

 

Sidenote: I do think we are holding Dandy to a higher standard than perhaps we would if it wasn't for the Watanabe influence, and in it seems here his role is more as a producer than a director.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A character can say perverted things, butyou can't know a character's true colors until this character actually does something. Show, don't tell. 

 

Jesus, how many characters are just pretending to be something they are not? We know Dandy is a braggart and incapable of doing anything for real because when it's time for action, he fails... How would we know he's a failure without something to fail at?

 

As for consequences, you're more or less right? All the money he's making catching aliens he's spending at the "Boobies" bar, he says himself that he LIVES for this place, he is putting his life on the line to go to Space Hooters. So even when he's chasing aliens instead of "tails", he's doing for it for Space Hooters.

 

He's died twice, and since he does everything for this Space Hooters, you could claim his lechery has consequences, because he does everything with lechery on his mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually thinking a bit more on it 

at the end of the last episode the young 'sidekick' vows to "grow up quickly" so she can appeal to dandy. Which is Kinda A: Creepy verging on grooming & B: Doesn't support the idea of Dandy's not getting the girl &/or getting punished for his lechery.

I actually didn't read it that way as all. Dandy was just being himself, probably not really actually entirely serious with his remark, and the girl just looks up to Dandy and wants to join him because he helped her out so much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I clicked on the spoiler not realizing this was an episode that I've not seen yet... (It's not up on Hulu yet?) But this is pretty common trope.

The small child who wants to marry an adult when she grows up is so ridiculously common and it's also equally common for the guy to say they will marry her or think about it when they grow up.


This trope happens in even pretty innocent shows, because they sometimes think it's cute... *shrugs*

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the whole dandy just seems very content in who he is, and his whole situation. He basically is the living breathing sci fi representation of a very privileged character. Not exactly smug but certainly more than happy to keep on living life the way he is without making any effort to improve it.

 

You guys are probably both right right that it's A:not meant to read that way & B: it's a pretty common trope. It's just the tone of that really felt like they were trying to frame her response as a heartfelt declaration and so it felt a little bit creepy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know I really hope next Season has some really straight/sincere non-trope stuff, because by the time Kill La Kill & Space Dandy are over I think we are going to be burned out trying to decide when they hit or miss with their various trope deconstructions.

 

Although that's probably wishful thinking, works in any medium which try to be genuinely tell a story and are very serious about their own characters are rare as hell let alone in as self referential medium as anime.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you're in luck, because JoJo: Stardust Crusaders is next season. April can't come round quick enough. Also Mushishi and Ping-pong. an anime about ping pong. And other tropey shit. There will always be tropey shit in anime, it's just sorting the wheat from the chaff. http://anichart.net/spring

 

Also fuck yes season 2 of free. Swimming guys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The art style on Ping Pong looks interesting, very expressive, kinda like going back to Kemonozume art style (which grated a bit during the initial couple of episodes but which I ended up liking). 

Sidenote: that series had a awesome opening theme tune.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now