"Ethics and Journalistic Integrity"

[Twig]

I can't believe that anyone would sign up to let something like that tweet for you. That's just asking to be hacked.

It's the same as letting a game tweet or post to facebook or google+ or whatever. Even Steam has a similar thing where you can allow third parties to access your information, like http://www.steamcompletionist.net/ or http://astats.astats.nl/ or any number of inventory analysis services, or http://www.tf2wh.com/ for trading, etc.

 

It's got a NAME and I KNOW THE NAME but I can't remember it and now it's driving me crazy. EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OAuth OAuth.

 

You're not actually supplying your username and password, but a token that gives permission to the associated app to access info or perform actions for you. I mean, you're right in that you should be careful who you give permission, but you can log into your account at any time and revoke said permission to these apps.

[Nachimir]

I've only blocked 34 gaters, and now, whenever I tweet the Official term for #GibberGland, I only get one or two responses at most. It seems to have died down a lot as more people ignore it… or they recognise my avatar

[Bjorn]

[Dewar]

It's the same as letting a game tweet or post to facebook or google+ or whatever. Even Steam has a similar thing where you can allow third parties to access your information, like http://www.steamcompletionist.net/ or http://astats.astats.nl/ or any number of inventory analysis services, or http://www.tf2wh.com/ for trading, etc.

 

It's got a NAME and I KNOW THE NAME but I can't remember it and now it's driving me crazy. EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OAuth OAuth.

 

You're not actually supplying your username and password, but a token that gives permission to the associated app to access info or perform actions for you. I mean, you're right in that you should be careful who you give permission, but you can log into your account at any time and revoke said permission to these apps.

 

Yeah, but all someone has to do is hack that website to send out millions of tweets at once. Even if I authorize a game to tweet for me (which I don't) the copy of the game on my machine (except MMOs I guess) would have to be hacked to then send as me. Who's going to go to all that work for one tweet. I don't mind services that want to read my information, because Google has everything already, but sending things as me? No thanks.

 

Regarding the other three recent posts, I don't understand what's even going on there. Where are those quotes coming from? What happened to GaymerX?

 

Edit: Hmm, only mention I can find is in this, somewhat questionable, Forbes article. http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2014/10/09/gamergate-is-not-a-hate-group-its-a-consumer-movement/

[Bjorn]

Regarding the other three recent posts, I don't understand what's even going on there. Where are those quotes coming from? What happened to GaymerX?

 

This blog post kinda explains it.

Some of the tweets have been deleted and one of the co-founders of GaymerX deleted his Twitter account, so it's not entirely clear. But it sounds like some (and don't quote me on this, I'm piecing it together) gaters tried to rope GaymerX into #notyourshield, the GaymerX twitter hem-hawed and called for peace or took a centrist/middle ground stance, and then everyone lost their shit, Milo jumped in, and they got attacked by both sides pretty heavily.

 

And just remember how the gaters are all about being inclusive, non-harassing and not insulting....and that they do such a good job of policing their own.

Edited to add: I'm spoilering these, as Milo uses an anti-gay slur in his tweets.

[Twig]

Yeah, but all someone has to do is hack that website to send out millions of tweets at once.

I mean... I guess? Yes, that is technically true? You're of course free to be wary of anything you want, but it just seems sorta weird to single this one out.

[Dewar]

It feels like the only people really left in this argument are the people on both sides who just really like arguing. Things feel like they're getting pretty nasty on the anti-GG side to match the nasty that was already there on the GG side.

[Justin Leego]

Two points I appreciated from a David Jaffe response:
 

I am not saying to TOLERATE asshole/crappy journalists. I am saying the way to ACTUALLY make them go away is to cut off their funding by supporting other sites that do things the way you would like them to be done.

 

the truth is, GG is NOT a joke but only because the good ones in GG ARE actually talking about important stuff (ethics in ALL journalism should be SUPPORTED and PAID FOR and REWARDED and the bad stuff should be shunned)

[Denial]

It feels like the only people really left in this argument are the people on both sides who just really like arguing. Things feel like they're getting pretty nasty on the anti-GG side to match the nasty that was already there on the GG side.

 

Citation required, I think. 

[Denial]

Like, the thing here is that a lot of people are not in "this argument" by choice - they are in it because they either are currently or are at risk of being selected as targets. That is, mainly indie devs and journalists, mainly although not exclusively women.

 

The GaymerX thing seems to be a good example of that. As far as one can tell, they were initially contacted by some gaters who wanted them to come out in favor of Gamergate, with the implicit threat of dropping the hashtag on them (bear in mind that GaymerX is run on a shoestring by a small staff). They responded with a conciliatory attempt at minimum appeasement, which led to a group of their traditional supporters essentially asking why they were suddenly praising a group that seemed antithetical to their philosophy. At which point they admitted that they had been afraid of a full-scale attack, and stated that they did not support Gamergate. At which point the hashtag started spinning that GaymerX had been bullied by SJWs into recanting their earlier and sincere support. GaymerX didn't ask to be involved in that, nor did the people who were startled and disappointed when they tried to avoid getting monstered.

[Dewar]

First off I say that I feel that way because that's the impression that I get from reading more articles today (mainly some of those Forbes ones.) I don't really have a ton of facts to back it up, but I'll do my best.

 

I don't feel like too many people here are fighting about it anymore. There have been quite a few posts of people who have commented that they don't engage on twitter or other social media about it anymore. We're certainly having a great discussion here, but this isn't really what I think of by people "fighting." As time grinds on, more reports of GGers getting harassed are coming out. While I'm sure that some of it is made up and none of it is as severe as that which Zoe and Anita have run into, it's still quite believable. I choose to believe that it's because the more reasonable folks are leaving the discussion, leaving the more abrassive ones to continue to argue.

[Bjorn]

First off I say that I feel that way because that's the impression that I get from reading more articles today (mainly some of those Forbes ones.) I don't really have a ton of facts to back it up, but I'll do my best.

 

My gut reaction agrees with you. I'm sure that there are still some reasonable voices left, and Denial is right that some people are still being dragged into it against their will. But an awful lot of people have just completely disengaged from any public discussion on it.

[Twig]

I think that's not an entirely unfair assumption to make that most people left on either side are just the type who want to argue (was there ever any other type on the gater side?), BUT unless you can point out a gomergooper who receives as much vitriol as Anita or Zoe or Leigh every single time they say anything in public, I will continue to not give a shit about the feelings of a bunch of assholes who refuse to admit their "movement" is harmful, even if they didn't support the original platform of misogyny or were previously unaware of it. There's no way they don't know now.

 

As far as I'm concerned, they deserve any and all conflict thrown their way.

[Denial]

But an awful lot of people have just completely disengaged from any public discussion on it.

 

That I'd definitely agree with - and it's one of the ways in which, if Gamergate actually has a message, the way they've gone about this has basically ruined their chances of getting that message out. The relentless use of the hashtag almost certainly flagged it as campaign spam for Twitter's trending algorithms (which are going to knock out hashtags tweeted many times a day from a relatively small number of recently-created IDs). And the insistent sealioning meant that pretty quickly anyone not to some extent in lockstep with them (enough to get lovebombed rather than hassled and insulted, at least) gave up on having anything resembling a sensible conversation.

 

So, a lot of people I know have either just blocked/muted literally hundreds of Twitter IDs by now, or have installed a filter that removes all mention of Gamergate - reckoning that, since people who want to discuss it without getting sealioned don't use the word anyway, very little signal is actually lost. Obviously, gamergaters are very upset at the idea of being blocked, muted or filtered, but they've also conspired to make it very easy and largely consequence-free to do.

[tegan]

Identifying as a GG supporter because you have issues with ethics in the games industry is at this point kind of like identifying as a Nazi in the fifties because you disagree with unearned income and debt-slavery.

 

(I know, I know, Godwin's Law)

[Dewar]

I wasn't going to draw that parallel, but it did come to mind.

[tegan]

I'm TURRIBLE

[Bjorn]

And the insistent sealioning

 

??

 

This is a new one, I don't think I've ever encountered that phrase before. 

[Problem Machine]

This whole thing has revealed a problem with Godwin's Law, in that it makes it really hard to be taken seriously when the people you're arguing against are are trumpeting their support by someone who is literally a nazi.

 

 

??

 

This is a new one, I don't think I've ever encountered that phrase before. 

Told you, dude. Sea lions.

[Bjorn]

Told you, dude. Sea lions.

 

Right!  I actually saw that comic awhile back, but didn't connect the dots. 

[Nachimir]

I'm seeing the same as Dewar, a lot of people who've disengaged. A few developers I know took that stance from the beginning, purely because they saw that as the quickest way of defusing it. Unfortunately, silence from the industry has left the more vulnerable people in it feeling threatened and lacking confidence of any support from their peers.

 

Outside of silence, the closest thing I'm seeing to an effective counter at the moment is the attempt to show GG's support as small. The thunderclap seems pretty humiliating for gaters in that respect.

[Nachimir]

And on that subject: http://cathodedebris.tumblr.com/post/99675407383/so-just-how-popular-is-gamergate-how-many-of-them-can

 

A bunch of different things seem to be pegging it at around ten-thousand total supporters.

[Mangela Lansbury]

 Edited to add: I'm spoilering these, as Milo uses an anti-gay slur in his tweets.

milo.JPG

Milo2.JPG

 

I'm glad that more people are seeing that Milo is a sack of shit. He's been on my radar for a while because of some comments he's made as a general commentator on Chelsea Manning, Wikileaks, and all the general electronic security/freedom of information issues that go along with those, but it's really good to see that he's willing to spread his shit stained reputation as far as it can go.

[aeolist]

Another female developer has gotten death threats, called the cops, and has been forced to leave her home for fear of herself or her family being harmed (trigger warning for violent misogynist language in her screencaps): https://twitter.com/Spacekatgal/with_replies

[aeolist]

And the inevitable claims of her faking it: https://twitter.com/Mislu_Kravin/status/520739931422208000