Dark Souls 2 (Dark Souls successor (Demon's Souls successor))

[prettyunsmart]

Ok, so you know how I said I never invaded people?

 

I joined the Belltower Covenant since I needed the titanite and I've actually found it to be pretty fun (both on the invader and invaded side of things). I think I might have been converted to liking the PVP in this game. Also, free titanite!

[N1njaSquirrel]

 I did what I Wanted to do the other day but came back this morning to mop up. Finished now. I think. It's unusual for a game with such linear progression to leave you wondering if you're done or not.

 

For example, I could happily move on to NG+ leaving Vendrick shambling lonely in his little courtyard. Anyway, I did for him, then I went back to the assassin/merchant guy behind the fog wall and killed some people for him. Actually, I said I killed them and proved it with random trinkets. Bought a wizARRRarrarrrarrrrrr-arrrrrarrrd hat off him. Then I went to collect the Dragon Memory which I didn't realise I'd missed.

So aside from cleaning up a few purchases and killing the dragon (I don't want to), I think I'm finished. Only a couple of things spring to mind:

- those brick walls over the first bridge at Iron Keep are still bricked up - are they opened as Convenant rewards or something? Likewise, I'm uncertain how I walk through the lava to collect the items I can see.

- the knight with the blue sword hasn't cropped up to repay his debt to me. The last time I saw him was just past the Pursuer arena in the Forest, next to the memory tree.

- the second two silent knights (hehe) are still alive and well. The first one's Heide Sword served me very well, but I have no particular desire to kill the others unless there's some awesome plot point or area that opens up.

- the third merchant hasn't appeared yet, though I did find her in the Shaded Ruins. I couldn't finish her dialogue tree because some git fell down the hole after me and killed me. She's not there anymore, but she's not in the candle room in the Cove where I assume she should be. Any ideas?

 

Anything else I shouldn't miss?

 

I can't answer all of these, but:

 

- what brick walls? As for the lava, there is no equivalent flamewalker ring in DaS2 like in DaS1. Using flash sweat, highest flame resistance and gradual healing items will get you the items in the lava. also, there's a pharro's lock stone in the iron keep that fills a pool of water that you can roll around in, which reduces fire damage. 

- I saw him in the memory of said tree after exhausing the conversation with him. Did you speak to him there?

- Just kill them, they serve no purpose apart from to be killed.

 

Also, don't forget the hidden part in the Depths. you get a key which opens up those big grey doors. One of them has the third of the shrines which that old guy in a wheel chair is next to, gaining access to another covenant.

[Bjorn]

On resistances (particularly for the area being discussed in the spoilers), temporary resistance buffs don't appear to stack.  The most recent buff will override the others.  So if you're trying to make your fire resistance the highest, just pick one buff.  Flash Sweat is much better than Orange Burr.  I'm not sure it's clear whether either stacks with dipping yourself in water, but the water buff is massive.  To be the most sure, use one temp buff, then duck yourself into some water (pool or jar), then pop multiple slow healing items. 

 

 I did what I Wanted to do the other day but came back this morning to mop up. Finished now. I think. It's unusual for a game with such linear progression to leave you wondering if you're done or not.

 

- the third merchant hasn't appeared yet, though I did find her in the Shaded Ruins. I couldn't finish her dialogue tree because some git fell down the hole after me and killed me. She's not there anymore, but she's not in the candle room in the Cove where I assume she should be. Any ideas?

 

Anything else I shouldn't miss?

 

That last point blows.  She's useful. 

 

Is there a chance that she was killed by the same enemy that killed you? If so, a tombstone might appear eventually, but I'm not sure that it will do you any good, as I doubt she would become a merchant unless she had moved to her house in Brightcove.  It's probably worth double checking her original location again after a bit, tombstones can take awhile to appear.

[Dewar]

Hmm, so I finally read a bit of this as I'm about 20 hours in. I had no idea that all you had to do was press A to open up secret doors. That explains why my friend and I thought everyone was just trolling to try and get you to break your weapon. I spent last night backtracking through the entire area I'd beaten so far looking for secret doors. I found a couple of key doors I never opened as well, so in the end it was worth it, but it was also a bit discouraging. It would have been really nice to have been told that at the start.

[Sno]

The vast majority of the messages people are leaving about hidden doors are indeed people trolling, just not for that reason.

I have no idea how those false messages get so upvoted, sometimes hundreds of times, and they're everywhere too. Possibly hijinx are afoot, or people are just real dicks. Probably the latter.

[bkbroiler]

I saw a message that said "Don't Give Up!" by a bonfire that had 809 votes. That's the most votes I've ever seen, and it was just a random inspirational message.

[prettyunsmart]

Which bonfire? Maybe 809 people just really needed that at the moment.

[bkbroiler]

It was in the Iron Keep, I think? A place with a bunch of lava. I haven't gone into the area yet, so maybe it is crazy hard or something.

[prettyunsmart]

Yeah. I just got there too, and I could use some encouragement.

[bkbroiler]

Don't Give Up! therefore try wheel

[SilentBtAmazing]

So I played a lot of hours of DkS but never completed (I got past O&S and the Painted World of Ariamis). So that's a disclaimer of sorts, but...

Personally I found the beginning I this game pretty tough as the dual-wielding class. I decided to re-roll just because I did a bad job on that characters face and tried Knight and I have to say that at least through the Forest of the Giants, it's much easier.

Overall something about this game clicks with me more than Dark Souls but honestly it just might be how much better the game runs on PC versus Dark Souls on 360.

[Bjorn]

I enjoy the messages of encouragement that people leave for skeletons around the world. 

[bkbroiler]

Yeah, there was a skeleton right before the Iron Keep area (I think) that is kind of leaning up against the way with his ear against it. And someone wrote "Listen carefully, skeleton!" or something like that.

 

Also, someone wrote in a sunny spot "Praise the sun, right?" which I thought was some decent commentary on message-leaving. Deep man.

[Bjorn]

They are soooo juvenile, but I'll admit that I usually chuckle at the but hole messages.  I'm not actually a very mature person.

 

Try rear, but hole!

 

Be wary of hole, but hole...

 

Try dashing, but hole.

[dartmonkey]

No hole gag is below me

I can't answer all of these, but:

- what brick walls? As for the lava, there is no equivalent flamewalker ring in DaS2 like in DaS1. Using flash sweat, highest flame resistance and gradual healing items will get you the items in the lava. also, there's a pharro's lock stone in the iron keep that fills a pool of water that you can roll around in, which reduces fire damage.

- I saw him in the memory of said tree after exhausing the conversation with him. Did you speak to him there?

- Just kill them, they serve no purpose apart from to be killed.

Also, don't forget the hidden part in the Depths. you get a key which opens up those big grey doors. One of them has the third of the shrines which that old guy in a wheel chair is next to, gaining access to another covenant.

Thanks for your help ninja & Bjorn.

Either side of the doorway to the building over the bridge (that the dragon covenant guy is in) there are some very obvious grey bricked up walls that look very breakable. I don't know if I can be bothered to go fishing about in the lava for a trinket or two. Sorry, I did see the blue sword guy in the memory. I don't remember anything significant happening though.

Bjorn, I checked the original place and, indeed, found a tombstone. I brought them back and they seemed grateful. Now to wait and see if they turn up elsewhere.

I just had a really wonderful experience with PvP. Getting a little bored, I tried invading worlds of the guilty, but for whatever reason, they couldn't be found. So, tired of waiting and eyeing the red orbs I've had sitting in my inventory for the past 70 hours, I tried a couple of invasions in the Dragon Palace. The first guy struck me unsportingly mid-bow but I managed to finish him off (I really enjoy the comedy of bowing with my little Heide Sword in hand, then switching to my ridiculously overproportioned

Dragon Tooth

) and got my token. Satisfied, I tried another. I walked calmly down the steps towards my foe who prostrated himself on the ground and did the 'No way' gesture. I praised the sun and followed him when he beckoned me. We went to the dragon's nests and he jumped on one of those zip lines. I tried to jump on too, but it wouldn't let me. Eventually I fell to the bridge below and made my way back. He was still there and I assumed we'd put up our dukes and be done with it. But once again he jumped on the line. I cracked out my Tooth and hit him. He was knocked from the wire and flattened, but in mid-air. When he rose he froze in the repelling animation and was able to float around in the sky. I finally understood what he had wanted from me! We played about for a bit before returning to the same platform. I remembered the phrase effigy things I'd purchased and released a Thank-You and a Very-Good to which he cheered. The tiny-but-positive interaction - one that runs completely contrary to the aggression and implicit violence of an INVASION - had me grinning, like we were gaming the system to mischievously spread goodwill and positivity against all odds. But then came the moment when we'd finished and there was only one way to finish our meeting. I regretted that violence was the only option. As I ruminated I watched my new friend wave to me one last time. He then ran and leapt off the cliff. Target Eliminated (or whatever the text says) and I was returned to my world.

It sounds utterly stupid but that little digital sacrifice made me smile so much and seriously upped my faith in humanity. The multiplayer element really has made this game for me.

[Bjorn]

It sounds utterly stupid but that little digital sacrifice made me smile so much and seriously upped my faith in humanity. The multiplayer element really has made this game for me.

 

That's an awesome invasion story!  It's shit like those encounters that keeps me playing. 

 

Yeah, that's a glitch where if you get knocked off a zip line, you can fly until you touch ground again.  Videos of it are certainly funny, haven't seen it in person yet.

 

If you go back a few pages, I related a similar story about an invasion where the person prostrated and begged me not to kill them.  It ended up being one of my favorite moments so far, and once our time was done, I just Black Crystal'd out rather than kill or be killed.   Another good one I've had is having an impromptu dance party break out using shield switching and emotes while riding an elevator with two phantoms.  It's goofy, but it's also the kind of jolly interlude that makes you smile. 

 

Next time I'm in Iron Keep, I'll look for those walls.  Can't say that I've noticed them. 

[Bjorn]

Don't watch the spoilered video unless you've finished the game, it features one of the very late game optional bosses.  The player discovers that the Hex Climax consumes ALL of your souls while trying it against this boss.  I haven't messed around with Hexes yet and did not realize that's how Climax worked.  I can't imagine how many people have tried this spell without paying attention to the description on it. 

 

[Tupperward]

This may be a little dumb, but whatever.

 

Playing Dark Souls II recently I've been thinking a lot about shared mythology. It might also be that I started that one book by John Campbell again. What's it called. Hero with a Thousand Faces. Anyway, mythology has been on my mind lately. I've just been so thoroughly impressed by how Dark Souls II handles the mythology of the first game and what the player perceived to be the end results of their actions in the first game without actually explicitly saying anything. I'm not too far, just finished up the Flexile Sentry, but I've been all through the available areas so far (Except all of the Bastille, place is huge). What's really standing out to me is Heide's Tower of Flame. The layout, the architecture, even the placement of enemies is remeniscent of Anor Londo, which says to me that this might be the place that Gwynevere left to with Flan, God of Fire. Hence the whole flame tower thing. But that item that dropped by the second Old Knight (Sentinel, whatever) has the description stating that it is the remnants of someone who has rekindled the First Flame. I loved this move, it keeps with the tone of the series while still perpetuating the mythological feeling of the whole thing. At first I'm just a hero called to adventure by the need to find out exactly what this curse is and I'm immediately thrown into some weird conflict where I'm told I need to seek out the King and become the new monarch. What? Ok, whatever. So that's my B Plot. I dunno, I'm not done with the game yet. I'm getting distracted.

 

Anyway, the whole layout of that area with that item description evokes the idea of the pure mythology of the first game. The fact that the first game is myth by now in the current game adds to that fact. Heroes unknown and unnammed, their stories mostly lost to history are all over DS2 while paying homage to the first one. Hardly any of the reappearing characters are explicitly named, just titled (Dragonslayer) and there are echoes of the shape of the last location all over this one. And then there's the idea that the flame was rekindled. Then whose remains are those, Gwyn's? The Chosen Undead? Solaire? Oscar of Astora in another timeline where he didn't get crushed by the Asylum Demon? (How the hell did he get destroyed so hard anyway, I beat that fucker with starting equipment. Motherfucker had Elite Knight set and Astora Longsword. C'mon, man, gitgud). I keep getting distracted, what was I saying? 

 

Right, anyway, the cool thing about all this is that it reinforces the idea of a shared myth. This story is something that is presented to us, the fans and players of the Souls series, as something that is true. It happened and its details are not a mistake. It gives us something to talk about, share and discuss. What are the implications, what does it say, what does it mean? Is there a commentary to it? I don't think that's important, I think what is important is having a modern mythology that we can all take part in. It's something that we currently lack. It's something that writers for nearly a century have felt we lack, so much so that Tolkien set out in writing LotR and Silmarillion specifically to create a mythos for the his modern UK. And while this isn't culturally specific to Japan or North America or wherever you're playing Dark Souls, it still does set everything up in a nice way that scratches that itch. You're still going to forums, you're still asking questions and you're still fucking reading this. And that's fucking cool. Video games. 

[Sno]

NG+ playthroughs apparently expand on a lot of the item descriptions. (In addition to actually remixing enemy layouts instead of just buffing everything, though it does that too.)

 

I will say, i've enjoyed how DS2 plays around with its universe, treating the first game and its inscrutable, but imminently present history as a distant, largely forgotten creation myth. Things you know from that game are referenced in corrupted, unreliable forms and the environments are filled with allusions and teases. I've seen people assert that Dark Souls 2 is being too vague, or that there isn't anything there at all, but i think it feels very in line Dark Souls. It's that same kind of intricate world-building and story-telling that puts the onus entirely on the player to make any sense of it, just now that's happening within a setting that has existing familiarity and expectations. Really, It definitely took a few months of dedicated fans mining that first game to really put together a picture of what it was even about. Similarly, in Dark Souls 2, it definitely feels like there's a lot there, people just haven't put it all together yet.

Anyways, so match-making in Dark Souls 2 is based on "soul memory" rather than player level, and it's basically just a running tally of how many souls you've collected. It's a controversial system, to say the least. It seems the theory behind it was that it would alleviate some of the matchmaking ambiguities raised by equipment and pyromancy, and perhaps it does, but it also creates a whole host of new ambiguities.

However, the real issue is that invaders with hacked characters can be worth really ridiculous amounts of souls, and they can show up and lose on purpose, permanently raising the invaded player's soul memory by a massive amount and pushing them into an entirely different matchmaking bracket, essentially. (Or far out of range of any matchmaking, since it only searches 25% in either direction of your current soul memory.)

That's a potentially game-ruining issue, and i've seen the story repeated by quite a few people in different places. There's not really even anything you can do to protect yourself against it, if you die and lose the souls, your soul memory remains elevated. (I think so? I guess i should confirm that, but that's how i've seen it described.)

Despite stuff like this, i see people now bitching about how the game is VAC secured, and it's really just silly. Mods are great and everything, but this is an online game with a huge pvp component inescapably woven throughout. (As an aside, if VAC is working as intended for the game, VAC bans probably haven't even gone out yet since Valve issues those bans in waves.)

[osmosisch]

Man, this game. I took the past two days off from work (the two weekdays where the kids go to daycare) and just deep-dove. I'm past the first boss in Drangleic Castle, having pretty much fully cleared all the areas before it. It's been a lovely, lovely journey so far. It's just so rare for games to genuinely surprise me these days and the Souls games still manage to do so even after hundreds upon hundreds of hours invested so far, and the end apparently still isn't even in sight for me from what I've read between the lines.

The multiplayer (both coop and PvP) has also been amazing, such an improvement over the previous games.

[Trip Hazard]

My lovely, lovely girlfriend gifted this to me on Steam today, so I'll be diving into it later...and completely ignoring her. Either she's shot herself in the foot or she's having an affair. Would very much be up for some co-op if anyone is interested - my Steam ID is lesalanos

[osmosisch]

Note that it shows your character name rather than your steam name in game btw.

[eot]

I've heard the complaint that there are too many humanoid bosses in this game, but I've fought plenty of creature bosses. A lot of them have awesome designs. Where they disappoint is in the mechanics of the fight. My favourite boss designs (visually) have almost all been pushovers and the game just isn't at its best when it's not challenging. I haven't encountered anything that's outright bad the way some of the stuff in Dark Souls is, but I haven't encountered anything as memorable or awe inspiring either. It's missing the Dark Souls je ne sais quoi that made it a classic and not just a great game. Maybe it is just too big and they didn't have the time to take each boss from good to amazing, because I do think most of them are good. Or maybe it's just that I played Dark Souls first.

[Trip Hazard]

That's good 'cos I don't like my steam name. Obscure references to Peter Kay sitcoms always seem like such a good idea at the time...

[Sno]

I've heard the complaint that there are too many humanoid bosses in this game, but I've fought plenty of creature bosses. A lot of them have awesome designs. Where they disappoint is in the mechanics of the fight. My favourite boss designs (visually) have almost all been pushovers and the game just isn't at its best when it's not challenging. I haven't encountered anything that's outright bad the way some of the stuff in Dark Souls is, but I haven't encountered anything as memorable or awe inspiring either. It's missing the Dark Souls je ne sais quoi that made it a classic and not just a great game. Maybe it is just too big and they didn't have the time to take each boss from good to amazing, because I do think most of them are good. Or maybe it's just that I played Dark Souls first.

It's to the credit of Dark Souls 2 that there are basically no puzzle bosses as there were in Demon's Souls and Dark Souls, the one i can think of that came closest ended up feeling like a well-rounded boss fight by its conclusion, but scarcely few have been as dynamic and exciting as the best boss fights from Dark Souls. Additionally, the difficulty of those fights is wildly uneven. There's a possibility that might be me doing the game slightly out of order, since the way DS2 is structured prevents it from using a lot of metroidvania-style level-design tricks to guide players towards the next intended objective, so i'm on my own just constantly jumping back and forth between the various pathways extending out from Majula trying to figure out what i should do next. Even with that excuse suggested though, the end-of-path bosses, like the old iron king and the lost sinner, are total pushovers. (That might possibly be intentional though, explicitly optional bosses have been by far the most challenging fights in Dark Souls 2.)

Another thing i've been finding kind of annoying is that there are really obscure "tricks" engineered into the levels to make some of the bosses significantly easier.

Did you guys know you could drain the poison from the Mytha fight? I sure didn't. Where else in the game do you use the torch to burn anything? How could i have known that was a possible action? In retrospect, there were player messages all around the thing you need to set on fire, but the messaging system doesn't seem to provide the words necessary to articulate what you need to do there.

 

To say something nice about the game though, because i do really love it, the rebalanced combat system seems to be working out so, so much better for PVP. (The netcode also seems very good, or at least much better.)

 

Also, i didn't play Demon's Souls, but... The way Dark Souls 2 has a clear hub and has you mostly teleporting between between largely linear levels, isn't this more like Demon's Souls than Dark Souls?

So what's everybody's build? I've been using the Alva set, the Mace, the Old Knight's Shield, and pyromancy. (Chaos Storm is a way, way better spell than its DS1 equivalent.)