melmer

The Wolf Among Us

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I think it's one of those details that can be very clear or very not clear depending on how... aggressive, you are in that scene and maybe even scenes in past episodes.

 

I was extremely nice and careful when it came to Nerissa, so possibly I didn't push her enough to say certain bits of info. On the car chase in episode 5 I also

jumped on the Crooked Man's limo and did not get on top of Georgie's car, so I may have missed any confrontation possibly with Vivian and Georgie inside the club. Instead Bigby awoke and Vivian was already dead.

I suppose it is somewhat explained in the Fable entry for both Vivian and Nerissa through menu, now I feel dumb for not instantly realizing it.

 

I plan to do another playthrough again and instead be the biggest most violent asshole. I was trying hard to be diplomatic as much as I really wanted Bigby to hit so many people in the game when they were rude. I'm guessing you can't really impact the outcome of the trial stuff in episode 5 though.

 

I don't know what to say to those comments. I thought the game worked great and the choice of where to go next over who to save felt a lot more true compared to Walking Dead. I had a great time playing this, but the newer Telltale games don't seem to have as attractive properties so I haven't gotten anything after the (disappointment) of Walking Dead Season Two.

I think choosing where you want to go next was okay, my major issues were just with a lot of the timed dialogue, being locked out of dialogue, and being whisked away from crime scenes or not being able to experiment by doing something silly because I might end the scene. Instead I was just mostly playing paranoid that I was going to end every scene prematurely. I guess the game did let me open the door on those people having sex in the hotel in episode 3, that was pretty hilarious.

 

A lot of this is negatively I have I guess is because I would have loved to see this world in a more traditional adventure game. After playing Grim Fandango again recently, I just still don't see the need to make the games incredibly easy and linear in order to sway players who always complain about adventure games being too hard (As reviews often did in the Grim Fandango rerelease). Although I suppose at this point Telltale is instead not swaying anyone and has instead changed their niche to choose your own adventure movie type things instead of redefining adventure games so it's probably not fair to compare it to their previous games pre Jurassic Park and Walking Dead.

 

But haha, brkl, I may never get to Walking Dead Season 2 now that you say that.

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Yeah, I'm pretty much with you on this Syn.  TWAU was just begging for me to love it in so many ways (art, character, etc), but the actual interaction/game part of it ultimately left me feeling pretty lukewarm on the game.  So many little frustrations that killed pacing and mood. 

 

As far as  your spoilers regarding the ending:

 

Are you familiar with the comics?  TWAU serves as a prequel to the comics, and it's pretty clear the end of it needed to logically end where the original Issue #1 picks up, so nothing of any real consequence can be solved since all of the interesting conflict is already present in the comics.  It's kind of the curse of all prequels, where they aren't really free to engage in the kind of story telling that non-prequels can since so much is already set. 

 

There are moments in the game that really shine for me, exemplifying the kind of game that Telltale is capable of putting together, but they are brief flashes in an otherwise annoying experience. 

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Ah, yeah I am not familiar with the comics, but I am considering it now, since I found the characters to be the best part. I was wondering if the comic canon was why

nothing in Fabletown really evolved by the end, since it there's a big classist theme hanging over the narrative,

but wasn't sure if the game had to follow that stuff since Walking Dead was its own story.

 

Also I started a new playthrough on my asshole run, and I didn't realize how much you miss by not going to Prince Lawrence's first.

I didn't realize he had killed himself first playthrough, I'm guessing his extra head wound if you go to Toad's first was from Tweedle Dee, but I still don't really understand what the bloody knife did. Any ideas?

 

Oh wow, yeah I had a very long discussion with Georgie and Vivian.

 

Damn, I wish I had never gone that way, because upon that choice of car

you are just knocked off and the Crooked Man and Bloody Mary look like they are about to run Bigby over in the road but the screen just fades out and Bigby wakes up and walks into the club later. it didn't make a ton of sense.

Now I feel like I took two paths the wrong way first time through that cut some important content for me. I also opted to completely skip investigating the initial murder scene in episode one on this new playthrough and I guess I'll see if that makes any impact on t

he final conversation with Nerissa.

Weird the game would let you ignore that stuff.

 

Also is there any way to know what Bluebeard is up to on any playthrough? His motivations for "helping" along the narrative game all seem to center around something else going on but nothing was said in my playthrough by the end of the game. The most I got was he was looking for something in the Tweedles' office but I didn't go there first in episode 3 so I'm not sure if that would have explained everything or not. Is it something that is in the comics instead?

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I didn't really understand what Bluebeard's deal was either, but the sense I got was that he was an important character in the comics that was included as fan service. 

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I think I had pretty much the same reaction as syntheticgerbil. I loved the atmosphere and characters but I felt as though the game was lacking when you tried to get a little bit deeper. One bugbear for me, and I think this is just a trend in adventure games, is that the devs only make plot relevant items interactable. I played it a while ago so I may be mistaken, but I can't recall a time when the game asked me to make a decision as to what evidence to consider or tried to lead me off the path. I'm sure this is due to budgetary constraints, but I found myself almost ignoring the environment and instead just scanning for those little blips to do the next thing. I think going in I expected more of a detective game, whereas this was more like a mystery novel.

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I think I had pretty much the same reaction as syntheticgerbil. I loved the atmosphere and characters but I felt as though the game was lacking when you tried to get a little bit deeper. One bugbear for me, and I think this is just a trend in adventure games, is that the devs only make plot relevant items interactable. I played it a while ago so I may be mistaken, but I can't recall a time when the game asked me to make a decision as to what evidence to consider or tried to lead me off the path.

 

That's correct. Even in Ep 5 when you're asked to name the killer. It's notionally the culmination of your investigation, but if you get it wrong, the game will just tell you who it was: your deduction doesn't matter at all. It really is a mystery novel, emphasis on novel, because despite being technically a game, you're really just there to watch events unfold. The dialog tries to let you play a role for Bigby (corrupt asshole, loose cannon who doesn't play by the rules, somewhat good guy), but the game never recognizes and responds to the role you've picked. Sure it will occasionally call back to a choice you made, but it's just a callback, "Hey, remember that time you made that choice? I sure do." By the end you can have solidly established Bigby as fitting one of the roles above, but no one changes their basic reactions to him, there's no dialogue written for "If Bigby is overall an asshole", just a bunch of case-by-case "If Bigby was an asshole this one time" bits.

To complain about particular a scene, the trial at the end attracts a lot of well-deserved criticism, but I hated the big fight scene in the factory. It felt like they were trying to be an action movie (not action game, an action movie), but the fight choreography was terrible, they took punches on the chin with no sense of impact and no sense of who was winning or losing, there were tons of enemies in the scene and 90% of them stood still and politely waited their turn,

at the second transformation I exclaimed aloud to an empty room, incredulous and somewhat angry: "His beast mode has a beast mode!?", then he wins the fight by breaking out a superpower that he had no reason to not just use at the start,

and of course, quicktime event fights are garbage.

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The dialog tries to let you play a role for Bigby (corrupt asshole, loose cannon who doesn't play by the rules, somewhat good guy), but the game never recognizes and responds to the role you've picked. Sure it will occasionally call back to a choice you made, but it's just a callback, "Hey, remember that time you made that choice? I sure do." By the end you can have solidly established Bigby as fitting one of the roles above, but no one changes their basic reactions to him, there's no dialogue written for "If Bigby is overall an asshole", just a bunch of case-by-case "If Bigby was an asshole this one time" bits.

I know this is an extremely common complaint about TellTale video games, and I can empathize with why people feel that way, but... it just doesn't matter to me? Like I know that mechanically there's very little callback to the choices I'm making, and the characters don't often acknowledge my choices in a way that I might think makes sense, if I really think about it, but when I'm actually playing the game, I just don't give a shit. I'm capable of... filling in the blanks, I guess? As in, although the responses are often the same, regardless of choice, I make the mental connection so that it makes sense that they say that?

 

It doesn't always work for me, but I guess it works for me far far more than it seems it does most critics of the TellTale games.

 

I fucking loved Wolf Among Us (it's probably my favorite TT choice-chooser) and I also liked The Walking Dead Season Two (although not as much as the first season - mostly because of TWD fatigue, if I'm honest, I just would rather see something new from TellTale... and of course they've already announced a third season, and they're doing that Michonne spinoff................).

 

EDIT: All that said, I definitely would like to see them do some other types of games. I like their choice-choosers, but I love the third season of Sam and Max, unequivocally it is my favorite thing they've done. ):

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I know this is an extremely common complaint about TellTale video games, and I can empathize with why people feel that way, but... it just doesn't matter to me? Like I know that mechanically there's very little callback to the choices I'm making, and the characters don't often acknowledge my choices in a way that I might think makes sense, if I really think about it, but when I'm actually playing the game, I just don't give a shit. I'm capable of... filling in the blanks, I guess? As in, although the responses are often the same, regardless of choice, I make the mental connection so that it makes sense that they say that?

 

It doesn't always work for me, but I guess it works for me far far more than it seems it does most critics of the TellTale games.

 

I have this problem with all the TT games, but for what it's worth, it wasn't quite as bad with Wolf. I think the critical difference is that TWD needed you to care about things and stakes, while Wolf kind of functions as a mystery novel, still able to be interesting even if you're not invested.

I really don't understand how you can see the game not reacting to you and not have that be a huge problem. If you understand that the game isn't reacting to your choices, do you get anything out of playing the game that you wouldn't get from watching someone else's Let's Play of it?

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Yes because I wouldn't be making the choices.

I don't need the game to be reacting to my choices to know that it was, in fact, me that made those choices.

I guess it's kind of an imagination thing? I'm happy just knowing I made some choices. I've never demanded my games acknowledge everything I do (though I do appreciate when they do so in meaningful ways (meaningful being the operative word here - if it's going to react it better damn well make it a good reaction)). It's enough to just go through the act of making them myself.

Also it's not as if they never acknowledge choices; it's simply that they don't do so to the degree that critics would prefer. Which I guess, to each their own?

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But if the game doesn't react, why does it matter? For instance, I felt clever about correctly naming the killer until I learned that the game would have given it to me anyway if I'd been wrong. It made me think "Well that was pointless". Knowing that, I wouldn't care about the difference between me choosing the right killer and my cat walking across the keyboard while I played to choose the wrong killer.

I guess the core question is "What do you get out of making an unacknowledged choice?"

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Counter-question: why does the game have to react?

 

It doesn't, for me. It simply matters that I'm making the choice, as I said.

 

To repeat myself: To each their own?

 

EDIT: It occurs to me that you probably started responding before I edited in the last two paragraphs, 'cause I think I answer your core question as best as I personally can manage. Sorry, bad habit I have.

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EDIT: It occurs to me that you probably started responding before I edited in the last two paragraphs, 'cause I think I answer your core question as best as I personally can manage. Sorry, bad habit I have.

 

Yeah, I responded to just the first bit. The one time I don't bother to quote someone's post.

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I admit my feelings about the game are mostly informed by my expectations, which isn't really a fair standard to hold the developers to.  I will say that in playing the game I loved it, but I found the detective mechanics were kind of getting in the way of the parts I liked and that the parts I liked seemed forced as a result.  Overall I still like the game, and am looking forward to another one, and to be perfectly honest I would even prefer it if telltale just decided to remove all the detective mechanics in favor of making a more linear game.  To me the game tried to strike a balance between letting me explore a bit and have the choice-consequence moments, but as a result some of the more important plot points felt forced and the mechanic parts tended to feel like a slog more often than those elements succeeded.

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That's correct. Even in Ep 5 when you're asked to name the killer. It's notionally the culmination of your investigation, but if you get it wrong, the game will just tell you who it was: your deduction doesn't matter at all. It really is a mystery novel, emphasis on novel, because despite being technically a game, you're really just there to watch events unfold. The dialog tries to let you play a role for Bigby (corrupt asshole, loose cannon who doesn't play by the rules, somewhat good guy), but the game never recognizes and responds to the role you've picked. Sure it will occasionally call back to a choice you made, but it's just a callback, "Hey, remember that time you made that choice? I sure do." By the end you can have solidly established Bigby as fitting one of the roles above, but no one changes their basic reactions to him, there's no dialogue written for "If Bigby is overall an asshole", just a bunch of case-by-case "If Bigby was an asshole this one time" bits.

I think that's the thing, perhaps besides having you decide the dialogue you want to say in the moment, maybe Wolf Among Us didn't really need choices? If it's supposed to be at its heart a murder investigation with a trial at the end, then maybe the game's progress should have just been pushed in the traditional murder mystery adventure game manner, where the story doesn't move until you have all of the evidence you need.

 

They actually could have just done it 1:1 with Walking Dead but with evidence scouring puzzles where you find the evidence and correctly link it. Thinking about it, the reason Walking Dead felt so good to me (besides 500 Days) is I felt only rushed when it pertained to the story. You knew what you had to do to progress to get to the next point, such as fixing the train, programming a universal remote, finding a ladder, etc., so there was always time to linger and speak with characters and examine in the meantime. I never really think of detective games or shows as fast paced until the climax.

 

Now that I think of it, Discworld Noir's setup would have worked fine here, that game also happened to have a werewolf detective.

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There was one scene in I think episode 3 of this game that stood out to me, the crime scene in the motel room. You interact with objects around the room that look like evidence, the other character in the room will ask you what you think this evidence suggests, and you get 3 or 4 options for your theory. It wasn't very difficult, I don't remember getting any of them wrong, but it felt like doing actual detective work, piecing together how a crime probably played out. It was a neat mechanic that helped the game feel unique, but for some reason it was only really used that one time.

 

I think this game was hindered a bit by being the follow-up to the massive hit The Walking Dead, and ended up borrowing more from that that it maybe should have. I still think it's a great game, but I wonder if would have had a stronger mechanical identity if it were made today.

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Haha, yeah I do like the idea of piecing together the evidence, however I just played that hotel crime scene again and I was just picking all of the wrong answers on purpose (the killer has a food fetish and the killer is a crossdresser) and Beauty did not seem to care and the scene still played out the same. I had also intentionally gave far out answers on some parts before. I'm guessing the more incompetent answers I give still won't have any impact on the final trial which seems to be hinged upon both mob rule and an unexpected witness rather than any kind of investigating you do along the course of the game. It's kind of a shame.

 

I doubt there will ever be a season 2 at this point but I wonder if there's any chance of Telltale backtracking a bit on their formula and trying again with Fables.

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Ah, yeah I am not familiar with the comics, but I am considering it now, since I found the characters to be the best part. I was wondering if the comic canon was why

nothing in Fabletown really evolved by the end, since it there's a big classist theme hanging over the narrative,

but wasn't sure if the game had to follow that stuff since Walking Dead was its own story.

I hadn't read the comics either when I played this. I've since gone through the first two trades and am really enjoying it so far.

 

Also I started a new playthrough on my asshole run, and I didn't realize how much you miss by not going to Prince Lawrence's first.

I didn't realize he had killed himself first playthrough, I'm guessing his extra head wound if you go to Toad's first was from Tweedle Dee, but I still don't really understand what the bloody knife did. Any ideas?

 

Hmm, I went the Lawrences's place last on my play through, and I don't remember what you're talking about there. Reading a wiki

He apparently attempted suicide twice, and the first time didn't take, thus the multiple wounds.

Also, that's a good pointer to the fact there are things you can change about the story, as

he can survive if you play it right.

 

Also is there any way to know what Bluebeard is up to on any playthrough? His motivations for "helping" along the narrative game all seem to center around something else going on but nothing was said in my playthrough by the end of the game. The most I got was he was looking for something in the Tweedles' office but I didn't go there first in episode 3 so I'm not sure if that would have explained everything or not. Is it something that is in the comics instead?

He was a well known murderer of wives in his fairy tale days, though no one has proved if he's done anything since the amnesty.

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Yeah Bluebeard is one of those characters you kind of have to know about (either from his actual story or from reading Fables) for it to really make sense why they'd suspect him so strongly.

 

As a reader of Fables, it definitely struck me as weird that he came up so quickly, before they even show him on screen, no less!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluebeard

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Well the backstory for Bluebeard is in the description menu. I just don't really understand why he

forces himself to be a part of the interrogations, the trial, and will search whatever place you don't when looking for Crane's witch (and messes up whichever place as well). If you don't go to the Tweedles' place first, Flycatcher says he stole something and you never actually find out what he stole. His story is always he funds the Fabletown offices and so he should be a part of it, but the way he acts seems like he's always jumping the gun because he wants to cover something up or has business to take care of he doesn't want Bigby or Snow to know about it. It's bizarre. He otherwise has little bearing to the actual plot since he's discounted as the actual killer middle of episode 2.

 

Since he never actually does anything productive nor does he ever report anything he found when searching either Crane's or the Tweedles' office after beating you there, you are lead to believe he's up to something. Maybe something involving him later was cut?

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In the comics he's a power-hungry piece of shit who wants to know everything about everyone else without ever divulging any information about his own activities. I guess that's what they were going for here.

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They won't let him do it anymore! Poor guy. ):

 

EDIT: It's also possible they were setting him up to play a bigger part in a follow-up season that I guess will never happen at this point.

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Has there been an announcement about season 2 not happening, or is it just age of the title at this point?

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I guess it's just age. It always feels to me that they tend announce sequels pretty quickly when they're happening. TWD S3 was announced like a month after the final episode of S2.

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