Super Metroid Appreciation Station

[Henroid]

I played about 3 hours of Prime over the weekend.

 

I think it's a better game, if only because it was easier to get immersed in the world than Super.

I have a hard time picking a favorite between Super and Prime. They offer totally different experiences though, so maybe they can both be my favorite. Definitely agreed on Prime being better with immersion. That was more or less what it seems to have been built on. The Space Pirates are tremendous in that game.

 

All I know is I busted my ass to be able to speedrun both because that's what games eventually devolve into, and the Metroid games are probably the easiest (as far as skillset goes).

[Sno]

Metroid Prime's commitment to a diegetic UI presentation and an incredible attention to detail in its environments is fairly remarkable. (That detail is not just as a matter of visuals! The soundtrack is just fantastic, but try turning it down and appreciating the incredible complexity of the environmental soundscapes they build.)
 

Super's definitely still my favorite in the series though, since i have some small issues with Prime where i have none with Super. First thing is a bit of an edge case these days, but the first few print runs of the game were known for being a bit crash-prone, there's also the item-hunt victory lap at the end that most people seem to be united in disliking, and i also think the scan mechanic tends to overstay its welcome. (Going for 100% log completition can be tedious and at times even a little infuriating because of some very easily missable ones.)

Really though, Metroid Prime is phenomenal, it's an easy #2 to what i will argue is legitimately one of the best games ever made.

[Griddlelol]

I'm biased towards 3d games, so it's unsurprising that I think I prefer it. I've obviously not finished it yet, so we'll see. I'm not going for 100%, it sounds like it'd be quite boring and doesn't really add any value to the experience of the game. I don't know how interested I'd be in speed running it. I'm trying to play without a guide, but I feel I'd have to use a guide to speed run the whole thing. 

 

Come to think of it, the only genre where my favourite game is 2d is stealth - Mark of the Ninja is just a perfect stealth game. Everything else (other than Rogue-likes, but that's not fair) the top game is 3d. 

[SecretAsianMan]

I constantly flip back and forth between Super and Prime for which game I like more (currently Super).  They're both amazing and are full of details that I adore.  I will say that Prime is one of the few games I've purposely gone for 100% because I wanted to get everything out of that game.  I really loved being able to scan things and get all the information out of them.  It also lets you do some sequence breaking by combining the lock on mechanic and clever jumping.

[JonCole]

Metroid Fusion is the best Metroid game.

 

[Badfinger]

Metroid Fusion is the best Metroid game.

 

 

If we were purely ranking Metroid games based on the criterion "Amount of hours Badfinger has invested into each game" then this would be true. I really like that game. It is a much more linear experience than Super, yes, but as far as gameplay feel I think it's the closest. I put a lot of hours into that one college semester.

[GavinTheAlmighty]

Prime is a fabulous game, one of the best of the 21st century so far.  

 

My theory is that they took a cue from Super Metroid and focused on creating a world that creatures lived in first, and that you played in second.  I know that this is a conventional concept, but they really succeeded at it. They focused on the ancient, lush environment first and foremost, and it really showed. Create a space that not only tells a story, but also has a reason to exist in the first place, and that goes a long way towards creating a game that sticks with people.

 

It also helps that they didn't need to go for too much in the way of realism. As such, Prime is a game that has aged fabulously well.

They did so many things right and so few things wrong that I could focus forever on the minutiae, but I really think that the world they built is the key.  It's a world that is teeming with life, where things don't really feel out of place just for the sake of making a game.  Plus, the soundtrack is an achievement in and of itself.Yeah, there are weird things, like shooting a door to open it, or the morph ball controlling mechanisms, but that can be rationalized with "Chozo tech lol".  

 

It also helps that Prime has a very similar flow, artistic vision, and gameplay style as does Super Metroid, the greatest video game of all time.

 

If I had to dredge up a complaint about the game, it would be that movement across the world can be  slow, which is irritating, especially for tracking down the keys at the end, where you have to go to the far corners of the map again.

 

Prime is, to my mind, 3D Super Metroid, and that is extremely high praise.

[Griddlelol]

So I'm at the collection part of Metroid Prime. Er...this is kinda tedious. The clues are pretty weak, and you don't get anything cool for your trouble. 

 

The only thing that's good about making me revisit areas, is that I can go pick up any power-ups I missed. The collection reminds me a lot of Wind Waker's Triforce hunt at the moment, in that it's a crappy way to extend an excellent game. 

[SecretAsianMan]

So I'm at the collection part of Metroid Prime. Er...this is kinda tedious. The clues are pretty weak, and you don't get anything cool for your trouble. 

 

The only thing that's good about making me revisit areas, is that I can go pick up any power-ups I missed. The collection reminds me a lot of Wind Waker's Triforce hunt at the moment, in that it's a crappy way to extend an excellent game. 

 

I kind of have to disagree with you here.  I can understand not liking having to collect things for seemingly arbitrary reasons, but in Metroid's case I feel there's a gameplay benefit that's more than just padding out the length.  Going back for missing power-ups is one of my favorite parts of any Metroid game because I get to use all the awesome gear I have.  I really dislike the idea that you should be getting something cool for your effort because it overlooks the enjoyment of actually playing in favor of a reward (even though I often fall into that trap myself).

[mikemariano]

So I'm at the collection part of Metroid Prime. Er...this is kinda tedious. The clues are pretty weak, and you don't get anything cool for your trouble. 

 

The only thing that's good about making me revisit areas, is that I can go pick up any power-ups I missed. The collection reminds me a lot of Wind Waker's Triforce hunt at the moment, in that it's a crappy way to extend an excellent game. 

 

That's where I gave up on both games and never looked back!

[Griddlelol]

I kind of have to disagree with you here.  I can understand not liking having to collect things for seemingly arbitrary reasons, but in Metroid's case I feel there's a gameplay benefit that's more than just padding out the length.  Going back for missing power-ups is one of my favorite parts of any Metroid game because I get to use all the awesome gear I have.  I really dislike the idea that you should be getting something cool for your effort because it overlooks the enjoyment of actually playing in favor of a reward (even though I often fall into that trap myself).

I've only actually collected one artefact (other than the one you can't avoid) so far, so I'll reserve my judgement as to whether this collection process is good or bad for when I'm done. I can totally see where you're coming from, as I've slowed down a lot because I didn't want the game to end yet. It's not the fighting or bosses that made me want to slow down, it's the exploration and feeling of discovery. WW's collection was fun in that I loved the sailing, but it wore thin fast, I hope prime doesn't.

[SecretAsianMan]

WW's collection was fun in that I loved the sailing, but it wore thin fast, I hope prime doesn't.

 

It was the opposite for me in a way.  I hated sailing in the original WW.  Collecting the Triforce pieces was the most dreadful part of that game for me.  I found sailing to be really boring and tedious because of all the wind changing and lack of actual stuff to do on the water.  The islands themselves were interesting but the boat just made me want to avoid everything.  WW HD helps fix a lot of that though.

 

In Prime's case, by the time you're collecting the artifacts you have all the really cool movement abilities and weapons so traversing the world was a lot of fun to me, plus all the item collecting along the way.  Granted, by the time you're getting Triforce pieces in WW you have a lot of gear as well but you're still stuck in the boat which means most of those items aren't useful at all.

[Griddlelol]

I did a bit of collection last night - I got 3 or 4, I can't remember - and yeah, it's pretty fun.

 

Some of the clues are terrible though, I had to look up a guide for a particular artefact:

 

I had to topple a tower. I was in the right area I was sure of it, but had no idea I had to shoot a rocket through a window to a tower miles away.

 

It was pretty cool, but I would never have figured that out by myself. 

 

When it came to WW collecting, I really enjoyed using the map to decipher where to go, and the sailing was so relaxing to me that I'd sometimes just do it for the hell of it. The second time I played it, I'd get home from work, immediately turn on my GCN and collect a shard or two before making dinner. It was a good experience. 

 

I tried to play WW a third time recently, but I really can't deal with the GCN control scheme. Is the WiiU control scheme modernised?

[Henroid]

So I'm at the collection part of Metroid Prime. Er...this is kinda tedious. The clues are pretty weak, and you don't get anything cool for your trouble. 

 

The only thing that's good about making me revisit areas, is that I can go pick up any power-ups I missed. The collection reminds me a lot of Wind Waker's Triforce hunt at the moment, in that it's a crappy way to extend an excellent game. 

The collection in MP pretty much consists of going to rooms you previously couldn't, when you gain particular power ups. There's definitely some Artifacts in rooms you pass through normally though, yeah.

 

Basically the hint system is based on room names. I can't think of any that are particularly hard to figure out in that regard. But reading about that tower thing... yeah I suppose it's a little vague about that. I would say that your scanning visor should help point out things in the environment that can be shot at.

 

As for the comparison to Wind Waker, I think it's legit, but Wind Waker's is far more boring (even though it's my favorite LoZ ever).

[miffy495]

The tower is the only one that's a pain. I just beat Prime on Sunday myself, no guide. I had an 83% collection rate, but 100% scan, so I'm ok with that. I actually found the collection no problem at all (except the tower) because I knew ahead of time that I'd need to do it so I went and got all the clues as soon as I could and then paid attention to room names going through. There were actually only 4 that I wasn't able to pick up while going around normally. Three of those were in Phendrana, so that was the only place that I really had to do a victory lap of. I didn't mind though, because going back to Phendrana once you have the plasma beam is IMMENSELY satisfying.

 

As an aside, I really loved that you can only actually scan the clues for artifacts that you have the gear to collect. If you scan early on, you can see like 6 things. As you're geared up, the other 6 reveal themselves. I just had to remind myself to take a quick detour through the crater entrance room whenever I went through the overworld to see if there was anything new I could get.

[Griddlelol]

I beat Prime! It's entered the important list of Griddlelol's top 10 favourite games of all time. It's so good.

[eot]

It's that good eh? I guess I'll have to play it some day.

Regarding SM though, I actually liked it a lot more the second time when I had a better grasp on the game and saw how well everything came together. It's also quite a fun game to 100%.

[SecretAsianMan]

I don't know if I just missed it, or if it's not there, but in Prime, I didn't manage to find any special moves like in Super (e.g. wall jumping, the boost thing and the health=ammo thing). It doesn't detract from the game not having them, but I went in expecting them. 

 

I'm going to reply to this here instead of the completed games thread.

 

There isn't a direct version of wall jumping, shinesparking (the boost thing), or crystal flash (the health=ammo thing) in Prime so you didn't miss them.  You can do some tricky jumps using the lock on mechanic to do some sequence breaking and because it's a 3D game you can clip out of bounds if you know how but those aren't intended features (maybe the jumps are).  The closest thing to the special techniques is probably the beam combos for each weapon. 

• The Super Missile is the Power Beam combo and the only required one. 
• The Ice Spreader is the Ice Beam combo that shoots a bigger version of a charged shot with a slight homing effect and a huge blast radius but an extremely slow projectile. 
• The Wavebuster is the Wave Beam combo that shoots a stream of electricity.  It fires continuously for as long as you hold down the button and have ammo.  It homes in on targets and paralyzes them (think of the proton pack from Ghostbusters). 
• The Flamethrower is the Plasma Beam combo and acts like the name suggests.  It shoots a short range stream of fire out and like the Wavebuster will continue to fire as long as you have ammo.

Prime 2 also has beam combos for each of the weapons.  Prime 3 has a different mechanic that replaces the beam combos.

 

Also as a bit of extra trivia, the screw attack was originally planned for the game but had to be cut due to time constraints.  It does appear in Prime 2 and 3 and incorporates the space jump into it allowing for several consecutive jumps (but not infinite).  It also allows for wall jumping, but only off of certain walls.

[Griddlelol]

I did come across the super ice missile, and I had assumed there were more weapon upgrades, but I never found them. The electricity and fire one sound pretty cool.

I think I'll play it again, maybe once I've cleared my back log and try to not only 100%, but also do some sequence breaks.

[undermind9]

with all the excited talk about Metroid i also finished Super Metroid this weekend for the first time. I think we had rented it on the SNES many years ago, but never put any serious effort into it.

 

Control mechanics (wall jumping especially) were a little challenging, but thoroughly enjoyed it.  I'll probably end up playing it again for a better time ending, although I don't think i'd beat the end boss w/o a couple reserve tanks and most of the energy tanks

 

I played all the Primes at their release, this talk has me thinking about getting the disks back from my brother.  I have a save for Prime 1 100% on hard going that never finished - I think stuck on the Ripley fight.

[SecretAsianMan]

I did come across the super ice missile, and I had assumed there were more weapon upgrades, but I never found them. The electricity and fire one sound pretty cool.

I think I'll play it again, maybe once I've cleared my back log and try to not only 100%, but also do some sequence breaks.

 

The Wavebuster is a lot of fun to use, but it eats up your ammo really fast.  If memory serves, it takes 10 missiles to initialize and consumes about 5 per second after that.  It's extremely powerful though because once it finds an enemy it will stay locked on.  The Flamethrower doesn't work quite as well because it's kind of hard to gauge the distance and the plasma beam is already so powerful.  I also really like the visual effects generated by the Ice Spreader.  Shooting a wall with it will basically cover the entire screen in ice.

[miffy495]

I'm really excited to play Echoes sometime in the near future. I only ever got a couple of hours into it on the GCN. Replaying Prime gave me the fever.

[Henroid]

Echoes is Prime 2, right?

 

I finally got around to playing that this past year, and I was not pleased with it at all. It was pretty badly balanced when it came to fighting bosses, mini-bosses, or even the more durable enemies of the game. Thematically, the Light World / Dark World thing was just... out of the realm of Metroid. I mean, it makes me think back to what people say about Majora's Mask - how it's cool because it has a different vibe / atmosphere. Well, in both instances I don't like it at all.

[SecretAsianMan]

Echoes is Prime 2, Corruption is Prime 3.

 

I also didn't care for Echoes.  It has all the guts of a Metroid game but it didn't suck me in nearly as much as Prime did.  The story, the setting, the enemies, it just felt... off to me.

 

I never actually finished Corruption.  I should do that someday.

[GavinTheAlmighty]

I liked Echoes, but I have to qualify that sentiment a bit.

 

I didn't consider the games to be a "trilogy" of sorts.  I know they all played the same and had a cohesive story (of sorts), but I generally didn't consider them to follow from each other, aside from Dark Samus.  That is to say, after having played them all, I felt like I could have played them out of order and it wouldn't have mattered.

 

I appreciate that they felt they needed to do something different, but I didn't like the light/dark world theme.  The world was already quite large, and adding in the dark world bit, while unsettling, made for seriously long travel times, especially near the end when you have to hunt for the keys (that's not a spoiler).  

 

I also didn't care about the Ing as enemies.  

 

The boss battles were interesting enough, and Quadraxis was cool because it was so large, but the game just felt like a disparate series of elements all tacked together.

 

I did like the music though - the dark world variations on the light world themes were terrific.

 

Corruption failed to grab me for several reasons.  It's still a decent, above-average game, but it didn't feel as much like a Metroid game as I felt it should.  The number of speaking and friendly NPCs eliminated the sense of isolation that should pervade a Metroid title.  I didn't like that you could call in the gunship to take out targets - that seemed out of place and also nonsensical - why couldn't I just bomb the hell out of everything?  Also, the soundtrack felt lacking.  It felt a little too ambient, and I always consider the soundtrack to be a very important atmospheric element in Metroid titles.