Transistor

[Twig]

The game crashed on me. ):

I haven't read this thread much since I knew I'd be playing the game soon. And now I am. Is this a common problem? A crash is always such a killjoy. I'm really into it otherwise, but I guess I'm taking a break now.

[coaxmetal]

  On 6/2/2014 at 4:51 PM, Twig said:

The game crashed on me. ):

I haven't read this thread much since I knew I'd be playing the game soon. And now I am. Is this a common problem? A crash is always such a killjoy. I'm really into it otherwise, but I guess I'm taking a break now.

 

I haven't heard about that, that sucks. It didnt' have any issues for me. Supergiant tends to be pretty good if you contact them though, i'd just ask them directly via email or something

[Dewar]

  On 6/2/2014 at 4:16 PM, ariskany_evan said:

A theory about the country:

 

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Going away to the country does seem to be this society's euphemism for death/disconnection.  That word might be used because their current lives are completely controlled.  There is no nature.  There is no change that isn't chosen.  So the country representing overwhelming nature becomes the metaphor for heaven, because it's something that no longer exists.  (It could also be that in the non-virtual world (I'm assuming Cloudbank is a virtual world) humans have obliterated nature, and it becomes a myth to them).

 

The fight at the end with Royce (I keep seeing people mention that they fight Grant, but he was one of the two men who committed suicide) is odd.  First and foremost, I found that Supergiant gave us a final boss fight with different mechanics than the rest of the game to be a weird choice (such a video game cliche!).  I feel like they wrote that AI in an interesting way.  He paused, he fumbled.  It felt like a real person.  It also felt like somebody who had just gotten their own Transistor.  Royce obviously understands how to use it, but lacks the finesse that Red has gained.  So the final fight felt off and weird, but it makes sense with the story.

 

So Royce and Red are inserted into the transistor, but as power users?  As administrators of the transistor?  They're running around a bunch of circular pylons that we can guess represent the funtions() that the transistor gains/can gain.  But the setting is in the country with a barn that matches the barn of the ending shot.  That makes me think that Red and Royce are battling it out for admin rights.  Whoever wins gets full control over the transistor, and can leave.  But Red noticed that she was able to shape the setting of the transistor to match her idea of heaven, of the country.  This made her suicide an easy decision.  If she is accepted into the Transistor as an admin, then she can "free" her man.

 

One thing that was confusing is that you can gain Royce's function() prior to meeting him at the end.  This leads me to believe that Royce inserted himself ALIVE into the transistor long ago, but in such a way that allowed him to make use of a proxy.  It would make sense for him to be the first test of his own invention.  And he could still have the proxy to help the Camerata with their plans.  And that might make more sense of the final boss?  Both Royce and Red are inserted while they're still alive?

 

Sorry about the jumbled writing.  Just wanted to get some thoughts down before work.  I'm still very confused about the Spine of the World.

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I always assumed that the final fight takes place in what is left of Cloudbank. With only two people left in the whole world, both in control of part the transistor, the process shapes the world to be half Royce (the transistors everywhere and the general power motiff) and half Red (the country parts of the simulation.) I guess, in a lot of ways, it doesn't matter whether the end fight is inside the transistor or not. Maybe you were inside the transistor the entire time....

On a side note, I believe that Royce specifically mentions, in the dialog leading up to plugging the transistor into the socket, that he took a look inside the transistor once and didn't see much of anything. Perhaps losing that part of himself to the Transistor is what started his trajectory toward ending the world.

[coaxmetal]

  On 6/2/2014 at 5:08 PM, Dewar said:

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I always assumed that the final fight takes place in what is left of Cloudbank. With only two people left in the whole world, both in control of part the transistor, the process shapes the world to be half Royce (the transistors everywhere and the general power motiff) and half Red (the country parts of the simulation.) I guess, in a lot of ways, it doesn't matter whether the end fight is inside the transistor or not. Maybe you were inside the transistor the entire time....

On a side note, I believe that Royce specifically mentions, in the dialog leading up to plugging the transistor into the socket, that he took a look inside the transistor once and didn't see much of anything. Perhaps losing that part of himself to the Transistor is what started his trajectory toward ending the world.

 

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I was always pretty sure that final fight was inside the Transistor though, especially given that the traces that were in the transistor for the functions were in the mounds where the fight was

[ariskany_evan]

  On 6/2/2014 at 5:12 PM, coaxmetal said:

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I was always pretty sure that final fight was inside the Transistor though, especially given that the traces that were in the transistor for the functions were in the mounds where the fight was

 

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Though I like Dewar's interpretation, I think the monolog pre-fight points that they're the Transistor, too.  Royce says "It's just, well, someone's going to have to rebuild. But we flew a little close to the flame there so... Now... We're here not there.  We're stuck.  And unfortunately the only way back I'm aware of, is, well... Unpleasant."  Also I didn't notice this when fighting, but when they go into planning phase you can see the outlines of "beings" inside the pylons.

 

But of course they could just be in some other space that is neither Cloudbank, nor the Transistor, but I'm having trouble finding a link to some other place that isn't those two.

 

More questions:  Anyone know comp sci in such a way to make sense of the space Red plugs the transistor into?  Is that some sort of terminal?  Some sort of primary code base that can function without the rest of the program?  I'm guessing the red airlocks could be firewalls?

[Twig]

  On 6/2/2014 at 5:02 PM, coaxmetal said:

I haven't heard about that, that sucks. It didnt' have any issues for me. Supergiant tends to be pretty good if you contact them though, i'd just ask them directly via email or something

In fact, it crashed again, and I forgot to come back and note that it's not just crashing itself... it's crashing Steam.

[Dewar]

  On 6/2/2014 at 5:38 PM, ariskany_evan said:

ariskany_evan, on 02 Jun 2014 - 10:45, said:

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Though I like Dewar's interpretation, I think the monolog pre-fight points that they're the Transistor, too. Royce says "It's just, well, someone's going to have to rebuild. But we flew a little close to the flame there so... Now... We're here not there. We're stuck. And unfortunately the only way back I'm aware of, is, well... Unpleasant." Also I didn't notice this when fighting, but when they go into planning phase you can see the outlines of "beings" inside the pylons.

But of course they could just be in some other space that is neither Cloudbank, nor the Transistor, but I'm having trouble finding a link to some other place that isn't those two.

More questions: Anyone know comp sci in such a way to make sense of the space Red plugs the transistor into? Is that some sort of terminal? Some sort of primary code base that can function without the rest of the program? I'm guessing the red airlocks could be firewalls?

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There's no reason that the landscape inside the Transistor couldn't be shaped in the same way that I assumed Cloudbank was. There's basically two people that had a hand in making the Transistor as it is now, so it makes sense that the inside of it would reflect both of them.

As for your additional questions, I assumed that all of Cloudbank is inside one ultra-computer, thus it wouldn't be a firewall as such, but some sort of wierd internal security measure. Maybe gates that represent getting admin access to the system? Since the Transistor has USB prongs on it, I think the socket is simply a USB plug of sorts, plugging a controler into a system to change the settings (and stop the process) much as you would a keyboard or Xbox controller.

As I've ruminated on it more, I've come to the conclusion that a lot of the specifics aren't as important as the overall concept. Oh, that and the fact that Red is crazy selfish in killing herself rather than rebuilding the world.

Edit: Apologies if my brief inability with BBCode spoiled anything for anyone.

[ariskany_evan]

  On 6/2/2014 at 9:43 PM, Dewar said:

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There's no reason that the landscape inside the Transistor couldn't be shaped in the same way that I assumed Cloudbank was. There's basically two people that had a hand in making the Transistor as it is now, so it makes sense that the inside of it would reflect both of them.

As for your additional questions, I assumed that all of Cloudbank is inside one ultra-computer, thus it wouldn't be a firewall as such, but some sort of wierd internal security measure. Maybe gates that represent getting admin access to the system? Since the Transistor has USB prongs on it, I think the socket is simply a USB plug of sorts, plugging a controler into a system to change the settings (and stop the process) much as you would a keyboard or Xbox controller.

As I've ruminated on it more, I've come to the conclusion that a lot of the specifics aren't as important as the overall concept. Oh, that and the fact that Red is crazy selfish in killing herself rather than rebuilding the world.

Edit: Apologies if my brief inability with BBCode spoiled anything for anyone.

 

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So to expound on your thought that her not rebuilding Cloudbank is selfish (thanks for keeping it at that, as it allowed my thoughts to spiral out a bit):

 

One of the Camerata obliquely mentions being brought into the Transistor is a permanent thing.  As if otherwise disconnecting from Cloudbank is not permanent.  All of the people that became functions are super users; the best of the best Level 80 WoW raiders that spend as much time in the game as they possibly can.  In Cloudbank you never have to disconnect, and the power users never do (and maybe a good bunch of the common citizens, too).  Though if you disconnect from Cloudbank having been subsumed by the Transistor, there’s no way back in.  You can look at it as a bit of hacking.  Someone logging into your WoW account and stealing your fully leveled character from you for their own gains.

 

This makes it seem that Transistor (the game) is playing with the idea of taking a piece of interactive art seriously.  We see the world only through the eyes of those who take Cloudbank as their reality.  The viewpoint of the common citizen is only expressed through the majority or through news reports.  So we, the player, feel the same confusing viewpoint that the power users feel.  Cloudbank is the only world that matters.  And as you noted, Red subverts that idea by being selfish.  Cloudbank is now just a broken piece of software that no one knows how to reprogram manually on the outside.

 

Which leads to:  Developers have long left this project, as whatever commands the process are given are executed without additional coding.  DLC is immediate as long as they get enough votes.  Cloudbank has now been around for long enough that no one remembers how it was all started.  Maybe in some ways Cloudbank was originally developed and sold as a truly free and democratic society.

 

One thing I'd like to pay more attention to in Recursion:  the language of the reporter.  Is she talking about this like when an MMO gets shut down?  You know that empty-hearted feeling you get when you really, truly connect with a world of fiction, and then that world ends? It usually happens to me with books.  Or the loss you feel all day when you wake out of a particularly vibrant and lovely dream?  Curious to see if that’s what the language is like.

 

------

 

And an answer to one of my earlier questions: A thread on Reditt posits the idea that the Spines are large Processes.  In order to wipe the entire system clean, there have to be larger beings doing the heavy lifting.  They make the Transistor slow and glitchy by being near, much the same way running a really process-heavy application slows down and heats up a computer.  That makes sense enough for me!

 

btw, I liked Transistor.  

[Reyturner]

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Wasn't there a line about how Red now had the power to remake the world but that she would be alone with the Transistor?

[Arathain]

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I don't think Red is selfish. That's a little harsh, given what she went through. The world she lived in is gone. Even is she was able to rebuild something (and what? She's a singer) everyone she knows has been absorbed by the Process, the Transistor, or fled to the Country. Who would it be for? There's another option. She can be with the one she truly, deeply loves. The one who stuck by her in the most desperate times. She just has to make one last, final, desperate sacrifice, on top of everything else she's lost- herself. I think that's what she wanted all long. She sought out the Camerata, rather than fleeing, so that she could master the Transistor to find out what it took to be with her love. That's incredibly, gloriously, courageously romantic.

 

I'm interested in piecing together the events that took place immediately before the player takes over. Red is attacked by the Camerata at (just before?) a show. The Transistor has begun processing her, stealing her voice, when her lover intervenes, somehow sacrificing himself instead of her. He is someone unusual- not a Cloudbank resident at all, but a User. Someone who has been visiting Cloudbank regularly enough to form a deep relationship with Red. Something in the manner of his intervention, either the fact of it or his different nature, means he isn't absorbed into stasis, but instead becomes the Transistor, and transfers control to Red. In doing this, the Camerata lose all control of the Process, which goes wild, consuming Sybil on the spot, and beginning to overwrite (preserve?) Cloudbank. 

 

Any details I missed?

[Dewar]

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I'm still not convinced that there is an outside world, or that the country is a real place. In my mind, these folks live in Cloudbank and die in Cloudbank. The country seems to me to just be a euphamism for heaven. If I missed hints to the contrary, that might be why I have different feelings about the story (and Red's selfishness) than others.

[Twig]

I've not read any spoilers in this thread, because I only just beat the game earlier today, but Dewar's theory in the post immediately above mine is exactly what I thought. Now I'll go back and read other posts to see if I change my mind!

[coaxmetal]

Has anyone mentioned how good the challenge rooms are? A lot of the ways abilities can combo together are never told explicitly, but a lot of the challenge rooms give you a certain set of abilities and require you to complete a task, and in order to you often need to figure out how to combo them together, which can get really interesting. Especially when you start using Get() in conjunction (not necessarily combination) with other things.

[ariskany_evan]

  On 6/3/2014 at 7:59 PM, coaxmetal said:

Has anyone mentioned how good the challenge rooms are? A lot of the ways abilities can combo together are never told explicitly, but a lot of the challenge rooms give you a certain set of abilities and require you to complete a task, and in order to you often need to figure out how to combo them together, which can get really interesting. Especially when you start using Get() in conjunction (not necessarily combination) with other things.

 

I enjoyed the challenge rooms quite a bit!  I was glad that they gated them, otherwise I would have completely paused the narrative in order to get through each of them all at once.  They're all fun, too!  Survive, beat the timer, change your build per round.  A lot of games make the challenge rooms feel prescriptive (turning an action game into a mechanical puzzle game), but Transistor somehow made me learn new combos while still feeling like I had room to play around.

 

Anyone do a build that didn't rely on Jaunt()?  I loved attaching the Corruption function to it, so every time I dashed she'd shoot out little enemy-seeking bullets.  Couldn't live without it.

[Dewar]

  On 6/3/2014 at 9:18 PM, ariskany_evan said:

I enjoyed the challenge rooms quite a bit!  I was glad that they gated them, otherwise I would have completely paused the narrative in order to get through each of them all at once.  They're all fun, too!  Survive, beat the timer, change your build per round.  A lot of games make the challenge rooms feel prescriptive (turning an action game into a mechanical puzzle game), but Transistor somehow made me learn new combos while still feeling like I had room to play around.

 

Anyone do a build that didn't rely on Jaunt()?  I loved attaching the Corruption function to it, so every time I dashed she'd shoot out little enemy-seeking bullets.  Couldn't live without it.

I was able to build a setup that relied on cloaking instead, but I didn't use it for long.

As for the challenge rooms, I found them pretty fun besides the part where they assign you functions and you have no way to know the effects of the skills you've got. I especially enjoyed the room that gives you a limited set of abilities and RAM, but still lets you choose how to configure them.

[coaxmetal]

  On 6/3/2014 at 9:18 PM, ariskany_evan said:

I enjoyed the challenge rooms quite a bit!  I was glad that they gated them, otherwise I would have completely paused the narrative in order to get through each of them all at once.  They're all fun, too!  Survive, beat the timer, change your build per round.  A lot of games make the challenge rooms feel prescriptive (turning an action game into a mechanical puzzle game), but Transistor somehow made me learn new combos while still feeling like I had room to play around.

 

Anyone do a build that didn't rely on Jaunt()?  I loved attaching the Corruption function to it, so every time I dashed she'd shoot out little enemy-seeking bullets.  Couldn't live without it.

 

yeah, I often used jaunt, but it wasn't vital to my build, just a bonus. My build toward the end relied on get and void and high damage attacks/aoe

[dibs]

  On 6/3/2014 at 9:18 PM, ariskany_evan said:

Anyone do a build that didn't rely on Jaunt()?  I loved attaching the Corruption function to it, so every time I dashed she'd shoot out little enemy-seeking bullets.  Couldn't live without it.

 

Yes, that was the best! Or sometimes I went with love hearts instead so that dashing through a jerk would charm them. The duration is pretty low in that case.

The only alternative i found was to use the invisibility power. Pretty hefty cooldown on it though, so you have to make sure to use your Turn() properly to get out of trouble. It also amplifies your next attack when you come out of stealth which is nice.

[undermind9]

ive been using Jaunt() w/load() or spark() to create a minor damage where jaunt lands.  i have problems clearing out shielded cells after big combos on ladies or men.

 

although i may move Cull to my passive to just have damage on contact

[Arathain]

I a pleasantly hard time working out where to put Pierce. Used as a primary with Spark it becomes a really good up close blast, kind of like a shotgun. Used in a passive slot you get a generous amount of extra time in Turn. Used in Jaunt you slice through anything you speed through like an anime samurai. 

 

My head says passive, but my heart says Jaunt. It's my vote for most stylish finisher in the game.

[SuperBiasedMan]

Just started this last night after getting it in the end days of the sale. So far it's mooostly hit my expectations with the world, the storytelling narrator and the art.

 

Gameplay does work better than I expected, though it's also harder. I lost 2 abilities on my boss fight, and I just don't get how I'm supposed to effectively maneuver when I lose Jaunt? My character is so slow, but the actual process are moving at what I'd consider a 'normal' pace. I'm not sure if it's just me fumbling as I learn or what but for now jaunt is kinda necessary.

 

As for the story, (spoilers for me speculating mostly, I've only gotten an hour-ish in)

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I like the obscurity of it, Bastion was kinda straight up and if this did the same I might find it less engaging to be honest. The narrator trick can hardly work the exact same way twice. I'm not sure if this was everyone's experience but to me it already seems like the process is an evil company's (maybe not actually a company but the evil company archetype fits for this) attempt to control people while placating them with modern digital advances. That's presumably why they need Red's voice, the media is a good way for a villain to 'talk' to the people and give them something to appease them at the same time.

 

I do not have a clue what or who the Transistor is, so that I'm looking forward to learning more about. Though I do wonder why they wanted to stick Red in the Transistor... unless it was entirely to get rid of her since she'd lost her voice and his voice seems to be all the dude in the Transistor has. I kinda wonder at this point whether the criticisms of being vague and confusing are supposed to apply to this point of the game, or later when the game adds more information without hinting enough at real answers.

[Niyeaux]

  On 6/3/2014 at 5:59 PM, Dewar said:

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I'm still not convinced that there is an outside world, or that the country is a real place. In my mind, these folks live in Cloudbank and die in Cloudbank. The country seems to me to just be a euphamism for heaven. If I missed hints to the contrary, that might be why I have different feelings about the story (and Red's selfishness) than others.

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Yeah, I think this is implied by the way they use "see you in the country" as a euphemism for never seeing them again until the afterlife or whatever. "The country" seems to be a place that exists only in fictions/belief systems, rather than a place anyone can actually go.

[undermind9]

im hoping in the coming months there is some added replayability.

 

i loved playing through it the first time and recursion even more so with the duplicate functions.  i even had 9 limiters going through the bulk of the game (no thanks -6 mem)

 

 

Bastion got a score-attack mode and the trips-to-who-knows-where were a great sandbox challenge without having to start a fresh playthrough.  In Transistor the beach was a great set of challenges...but the doors are closed now.  

 

I dont think the solution is score-attack challenges, but i'd take most anything to get back into cloudbank and some turn() time

[Arathain]

There are ways to work around having Jaunt as a primary. Make sure you put some distance between you and your enemies at the end of your turn is the main one. In cover, for preference. Any ability with Jaunt as an upgrade can be used while charging up, so you could put it in something defensive like the one that converts enemies to your side (name escapes me). There are a couple of the passives that are defensive, so they'll help tank some damage. 

 

That said, I mostly ran with it as one of my four.

[Dewar]

Cloak is pretty awesome as well.

[Latrine]

I've actually played a lot without Jaunt, it can be tricky but it's possible. It helps to have some defensive passives like the shield from Bounce and reduced damage from Crash. Also it helps to to spec something that you can spam with Jaunt slotted in it while Turn recharges, Spark is a good choice here. Even if you don't have Jaunt available a playstyle where you spam an ability until you have to use Turn to avoid damage can work pretty well and in fact is something you might have to do in some encounters with lots of limiters on because otherwise you get overwhelmed with Cells during Turn's cooldown. In this playstyle it's not always a good idea to use the full meter of Turn because then it takes longer to recover. 

 

The last build I was using with full limiters and was pretty powerful had passive Crash and Bounce, Tap with Get which seems to do crazy damage on the edge of the AoE, Spark with Spark and Jaunt for huge AoE spamming, and Void with I think Crash to just do ridiculous damage with Tap during Turn. I spam Spark to get rid of all the little annoying enemies and only use Turn when I have to avoid damage or burst down a high health enemy.