Roderick Posted July 23, 2012 When I was in the US I was confused about the term 'whole foods', when the supermarkets selling them also sold heavily refined products. You know, every culture has its own terms and hypes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vimes Posted July 23, 2012 but in the case of plants, it's pointless and just means you're paying more money to brag. That's not entirely true, I suggest you browse to the end of the wikipedia article on organic farming to learn about the benefit it has on soil conservation. Organic farming is not the panacea since it doesn't scale very well and could never be driven by demand; but it does offer efficient answers to small/medium scale problems Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twig Posted July 23, 2012 That's not entirely true, I suggest you browse to the end of the wikipedia article on organic farming to learn about the benefit it has on soil conservation. Organic farming is not the panacea since it doesn't scale very well and could never be driven by demand; but it does offer efficient answers to small/medium scale problems Actually, that's a good point. My bad. I was thinking in terms of health benefits, as that's usually the number one reason people claim to eat organic, in my experience. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salka Posted July 23, 2012 http://www.ucsusa.or...reality-of.html While a little cynicism is healthy, I wouldn't be so sure that horrible things don't end up in your milk/food. Remember BSE? Remember swine flu? Both were a result of horrific farming practices that you would like to think don't actually happen. Also: organic produce is not just about bragging. The farming practices used are far less harmful to the environment as fewer chemicals are used, etc. I buy a lot of organic vegetables from a store that sources local and seasonal produce. I don't buy them to brag or to to prevent cancer or supplement my magic homeopathic spells or whatever else people suppose you do with organic vegetables. I buy them because it's environmentally friendly, cheap and supports local farms. Also, they tend not to come wrapped in several layers of non-recycle-able plastic like most vegetables in supermarkets do in the UK. That annoys me because then I can't recycle all the surplus plastic, which makes me feel less qualified to brag to all my friends about how good I am at recycling which, let's face it, is the only reason anyone ever recycles anything. Erkki, in the UK there are quite strict rules that have to be adhered to in order to call something 'organic'. You can generally assume it means fewer chemicals pumped into the environment and more diverse eco-systems being supported on organic farms. In the UK at least, organic labels on meat also guarantees a certain standard of life for the animal (which as far as I'm aware is far higher than RSPCA-certified meat). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twig Posted July 23, 2012 The bragging bit was a joke, geez. Like, seriously, you thought that was seriously serious? X: (oh you removed that bit from your post so maybe I guess you caught on (i hate this stupid smiley)) It's surprising that you say organic is cheap. The entire reason I don't buy it is because it's expensive (relatively)! Otherwise, I might be adventurous and see if maybe it tastes better or some other magic bullshit. Or I'd buy it just because yeah I'm not a total asshole and don't mind doing a bit here and there to help the ENVIRON. But I'm poor, so I don't. Health-wise, there is "science" to support both sides, but since I've been eating non-"organic" my entire life to no detriment, I'll continue doing so until someone provides real, legitimate, fool-proof evidence that I'm killing myself by eating rotting worms. And yes, I don't think organic food could support the entire world. Quite the opposite... From what I know, it would be kind of horrible in that regard. We just got too many people. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salka Posted July 23, 2012 My recycling thing was a joke too, geez! You thought that was seriously serious? Maybe organic is cheaper when combined with being locally produced, I don't know. It also cuts out the middle man as the farms sell it directly to the shop, which is itself an independent local retailer. Also it's all just loose and on display openly instead of packaged away by machines, which probably cuts out some of the cost (and reflects well on me). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twig Posted July 23, 2012 You had something more in there! You can't hold it against me when you edit your posts after I respond!! The local thing is probably what really makes it cheap, yeah. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salka Posted July 23, 2012 Looks like we both did!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lu Posted July 23, 2012 Get a chat-room, you two! I actually saw this Dutch invention (I think), which was a fully automated machine for cow-milking. Except, the cow chooses when she was ready to get milked and walk into the machine. It was a lot less stressful for all the cows involved. I thought it was cool. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toblix Posted July 23, 2012 Yeah, the most modern farms here have all this awesome automatic robot stuff. The cows have walk-through feeding, milking and even a massage/brushing thing that looks horrible, but is apparently pleasant. I wonder how big of a difference there is between industrial farming/dairy in Norway and in the US – whenever I read about it, it's in a US context, which might be spot-on, but also outta whack. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brkl Posted July 23, 2012 Considering how expensivetastic Norwegian food is, it could be a lot better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roderick Posted July 23, 2012 When it comes to saving the environment and bettering the world: besides my already, let's face it, pretty awesome standards for not eating meat and other fantastic, character-building features, I am going to out-do most all people out there with the biggest boon to the world a person can give: not having god damned children. You want to shrink your ecological footprint? How about NOT creating additional feet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
njoos Posted July 23, 2012 Yeah, the most modern farms here have all this awesome automatic robot stuff. The cows have walk-through feeding, milking and even a massage/brushing thing that looks horrible, but is apparently pleasant. I wonder how big of a difference there is between industrial farming/dairy in Norway and in the US – whenever I read about it, it's in a US context, which might be spot-on, but also outta whack. My plan is to outbreed the stupids so we have a generation of smart people who can bail us out with some genius plan. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Laxan Posted July 23, 2012 Who says that the 'lack of food' and 'too many children' problems can't cancel themselves out? I'll show myself out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toblix Posted July 23, 2012 When it comes to saving the environment and bettering the world: besides my already, let's face it, pretty awesome standards for not eating meat and other fantastic, character-building features, I am going to out-do most all people out there with the biggest boon to the world a person can give: not having god damned children. You want to shrink your ecological footprint? How about NOT creating additional feet. I realise you're probably being all jesty, but that's not an awesome thing to say. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roderick Posted July 23, 2012 Oh yes, it's pretty jesty and proddingly provocative. I certainly don't consider not getting kids something to brag about, or feel superior to other people about. I try not to be smug about anything, really. Just tapping into the conversation. It is a fact though that in the long run, a child puts way more strain on the ecology than the sum of all the organic eggs you buy and carton you recycle. It's not entirely on-topic, but overpopulation is a very real problem that will create an immense, unforeseen amount of suffering in the world within our lifetime. Me (most likely) not getting children is ironically of the least influence, because where I live there is enough ecological support and room. But I weep for Africa, which will in the coming decades be devastated by a doubling of population. But I do realize that speaking of limiting getting children is an incredibly sensitive, taboo topic that gets people riled up like nothing else. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Twig Posted July 23, 2012 I realise you're probably being all jesty, but that's not an awesome thing to say. The problem is, it's also true. Overpopulation is a real problem to consider. Basically, what Rodi said. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salka Posted July 23, 2012 There was a guy at my uni who would always go on and on and on about how selfish people are for giving in to the desire to have children, but strangely didn't think that he was selfish for giving in to the desire to continue living, which logically seems like it should be similarly obnoxious in his eyes. I don't think there's anything that HAS to be selfish about raising a child or two, something that every living thing on the earth does in one way or another and seems to be the closest thing that we can see to life having any kind of a point at all. There are ways people can go about it to not be dicks about it, but with religious people being told to pump them out as much as possible and women in many places in the world without access to education, contraception or anything resembling equal rights, that's obviously going to be quite a challenge, not to mention that we live in a hugely consumerist, shallow-as-fuck world where people love iPhones because they're SHINY and INSTABUY!!!`111one, and so preventing your one or two children from becoming a consumerist monster is in itself going to quite a task, because everything is affordable and shiny and instabuy these days. Let alone if you have 7 children because you're Catholic, or 10 children because you've got literally nothing better to do in Saudi Arabia, because you're a woman and your job is to have children. But I don't think STOP HAVING KIDS EVERYONE is the necessarily the best answer to these things. I think EVERYONE STOP BEING SUCH A DICK is a good place to start. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
subbes Posted July 23, 2012 I physically can't have kids. I sometimes feel a bit smug about that, but then I look at the self-satisfied fuckers in the "childfree" communities on LJ and that fixes it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brkl Posted July 24, 2012 I was going to say what Salka said, except in a crass manner. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sal Limones Posted July 24, 2012 I propose we start by eliminating "why should I care" from our worldviews Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salka Posted July 24, 2012 I wholeheartedly agree with that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erkki Posted July 24, 2012 I was about to buy some meat (chicken) yesterday but decided not to, thanks to this thread. Not becoming a vegetarian though, but maybe I'll try to eat less of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
syntheticgerbil Posted July 24, 2012 The problem with having kids is that they suck away any time you'd have for video games. I don't recommend. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites