The great Valve re-play

[shammack]

Shadow of the Colossus?

[Thrik]

Wind Waker is a classic in that regard. I'm sure most fans have (mostly) fond memories of the copius amounts of unskippable seafaring that was required when going between the islands and islets that comprised the enormous game world.

There was a huge sense of discovery in that game too because you'd often come across uncharted little islands, platforms, etc that sometimes had side-quests. You could waste hours just exploring the sea and enjoying the immaculate ambience. I suspect fast travel was left out because Nintendo knew how important to the experience the sea exploration was.

That game sits so wonderfully in my memory. I'm not sure if I ever want to play it again because it's like remembering some sweet vacation or something, I don't want a second visit to damage my memories.

[SecretAsianMan]

Haha, I might have to do a yet more masochistic play through!

 

Have you ever tried getting the Half-Life 2: Episode 2 achievement for launching the gnome into space?  That was one of the most arduous things I've ever done.  I saved constantly because the gnome kept getting blasted, dropped, rammed, thrown, hit, punted, tossed, exploded, and just generally launched into bottomless pits and other unreachable places.  And he won't stay in the car at all, so driving with him turns you into the stereotypical little old lady who only goes 5 mph because go any faster and you just flung that guy into oblivion.  At times I wondered if it would have been faster to just fire him ahead with the gravity gun, get in the car and find him, and repeat.  It's probably not actually as bad as I remember but it was still a pain in the ass.

[mikemariano]

At times I wondered if it would have been faster to just fire him ahead with the gravity gun, get in the car and find him, and repeat.

You can do some of that, but firing him too far makes him really hard to find again. I mostly wedged him against Alyx.

I really do like dumb, goofball achievements like that. They are a good way of saying "You shouldn't take ANY achievements seriously."

[SecretAsianMan]

I normally like dumb achievements as well, but that in one particular did not provide the effort to amusement ratio I would have liked.

 

On the other hand, I really liked the achievement in Episode One for using exactly one bullet.  I wouldn't have thought to try it if that achievement didn't exist and it ended up being a really satisfying playthough.

[Merus]

Wind Waker is a classic in that regard. I'm sure most fans have (mostly) fond memories of the copius amounts of unskippable seafaring that was required when going between the islands and islets that comprised the enormous game world.

 

Oh man, I totally don't remember that because I would always just switch to the TV channel to see what was on and then switch back a couple of minutes later.

 

I have nostalgia for a lot of things I realise were bullshit, but I fear the day when Wind Waker sailing is one of them. They did try to give you things to do while sailing, but those little minigames aren't interesting enough to sustain the wait until you start playing the game you're there for again.

[ihavefivehat]

I'm in the minority with Wind Waker, because not only did I find the sailing totally tolerable, I also loved the Triforce hunt.

 

I normally like dumb achievements as well, but that in one particular did not provide the effort to amusement ratio I would have liked.

 

I felt the same way... I guess that was just not my particular brand of masochism.

[Twig]

I vastly preferred sailing to riding a lame horse!

[Zeusthecat]

Wind Waker is a classic in that regard. I'm sure most fans have (mostly) fond memories of the copius amounts of unskippable seafaring that was required when going between the islands and islets that comprised the enormous game world.

There was a huge sense of discovery in that game too because you'd often come across uncharted little islands, platforms, etc that sometimes had side-quests. You could waste hours just exploring the sea and enjoying the immaculate ambience. I suspect fast travel was left out because Nintendo knew how important to the experience the sea exploration was.

That game sits so wonderfully in my memory. I'm not sure if I ever want to play it again because it's like remembering some sweet vacation or something, I don't want a second visit to damage my memories.

This perfectly describes my experience with Wind Waker. I loved the seafaring for all of the reasons you mentioned and it made every discovery feel much more meaningful.

[Sno]

It bums me out so much that the HD remake of Wind Waker is going to give the boat a motor and propeller upgrade that makes it move twice as fast and without the aid of the wind.

Way to undermine your own game, Nintendo.

[Dewar]

I was not a fan of the sailing bits in Wind Waker. In the end, I wasn't a fan of the game at all though, so my opinion might be void.

[Twig]

YOU'RE VOID

 

I have no issue with a motor and/or propeller upgrade. I don't really think it undermines their own game. And I loved the sailing. Loooooved it.

[ihavefivehat]

So basically what we're saying is that Half Life 3 should be a boat simulator where you are the captain of the Borealis? Let's do it!

[Ben X]

Yeah, and once you get to be captain, it goes to a 3rd person cutscene in the style of Grim Fandango with Gordon at the helm in a jaunty captain's hat!

[Sno]

I just finished the Half-Life 2 episodes, thus completing a gradual off and on replay of the Half-Life games.

I don't think Episode One is very good. Maybe not bad, but it's definitely just rehashing the second half of Half-Life 2 in as many ways as it can imagine.

Episode Two, on the other hand, gives you glimpses of new content, but doesn't quite take as full advantage of it as it probably could.

Honestly, playing them this time, i don't think either of the episodes hold up as well as the content of the main game, but Episode Two is definitely the more interesting of the two. You even get a slight hint of Valve's changing perception of the episodes through the course of those two things. Episode One is clearly built on a philosophy of trying to get content out on a regular schedule, being a smaller add-on with a narrower scope and built almost completely from reused assets. Episode Two comes along and has a number of engine upgrades, tons of new assets, new enemies, and it's clear they've given up on the regular content release schedule they had hoped for and will instead aim for more intermittent, larger add-ons. Even then though, some of the things Episode Two introduces are kind of only hinted at, and you're left with the impression that there was definitely supposed to be more to follow soon. The hunters, for example, really only come into play in the last third of Episode Two.

Both of the episodes are way, way, way too heavy on zombies and ant lions. The ant lion hive in Episode Two, particularly, can really drag.

It's also interesting comparing the set piece finales of the two episodes. Episode One ends on an incredibly unambitious, clunky, and heavily scripted fight with a strider, while Episode Two has that fantastic, massive battle across the open-ended field.

That cliff-hanger ending in Episode Two is also way more of an asshole than i remember. Sure hope Valve delivers on that! How long could Episode Three possibly take, right? They're supposed to have one of these things out every few months, hey?

[SecretAsianMan]

Personally, I like Episode One more.  I understand, and even agree with, some of what you're saying about Episode Two.  Valve stated that they had specific things in mind when designing the episodes.  Episode One was mainly focused on character development so they did a lot of work with the AI (mainly Alyx's AI), which is why the game's environments are full of reused assets.  Episode Two was about new environments.  Both actually started development at the same time though so I don't know if they had the intentions you were getting.

 

The reason I like Episode One more is I'm a huge sucker for co-op games and I liked having an AI partner who wasn't totally helpless.  The episode could very easily have become a long escort mission, but in wasn't.  In fact, there's an achievement for Episode One called "The One Free Bullet" that you can earn by firing only one bullet (in the very beginning when you have to shoot a lock).  This turns the episode into a reverse escort mission where you're the helpless escortee and have to rely on Alyx to deal with most of the enemies.  I suspect that experience would not hold up if I replayed it now, but in my mind at least I liked it more.

[TychoCelchuuu]

Valve definitely solved the escort mission years before BioShock Infinite ostensibly did the same, and Valve did it without turning it into a "woman cannot engage in combat so she hides the entire time and is inexplicably invincible" situation.

[Sno]

Personally, I like Episode One more.  I understand, and even agree with, some of what you're saying about Episode Two.  Valve stated that they had specific things in mind when designing the episodes.  Episode One was mainly focused on character development so they did a lot of work with the AI (mainly Alyx's AI), which is why the game's environments are full of reused assets.  Episode Two was about new environments.  Both actually started development at the same time though so I don't know if they had the intentions you were getting.

I certainly wouldn't be surprised that the reality is quite different from what i am imagining, i was just relaying what i felt like i could infer from the impression the two episodes left on me.

 

The reason I like Episode One more is I'm a huge sucker for co-op games and I liked having an AI partner who wasn't totally helpless.  The episode could very easily have become a long escort mission, but in wasn't.  In fact, there's an achievement for Episode One called "The One Free Bullet" that you can earn by firing only one bullet (in the very beginning when you have to shoot a lock).  This turns the episode into a reverse escort mission where you're the helpless escortee and have to rely on Alyx to deal with most of the enemies.  I suspect that experience would not hold up if I replayed it now, but in my mind at least I liked it more.

 

Alyx is definitely quite a capable AI companion in the episodes, and it's done without cheats like making her invincible. She can still get in the way sometimes, blocking your path in Half-Life's many narrow combat spaces, but it's largely an escort mission that works. That's definitely to Episode One's credit. I also quite like some of the fights that happen in total darkness, with Alyx relying on your flashlight to find targets and such. What really drags down Episode One for me is just that it immediately retreads the mechanics introduced at the end of Half-Life 2, and tries it mix it up only by introducing a bunch of finicky and obnoxious challenges into the mix. For example, the bit where you're trying to deflect falling debris away from your elevator, or the other bit where you're trying to sidestep through the... energy ball shooting... things... There are a few other examples, but they're all mildly infuriating. The ultimate conclusion is also really weak, the scripted fight with the strider, kind of evoking the sort of thing that HL2-proper would have done in a much less scripted way by employing some clever level design.

I have some issues with Episode Two as well though, i think the whole sequence with the antlion hive really lags, it's a slog and i think there's very little interesting about that location or the newly introduced types of antlion. Instead, it's the bits when you get the new vehicle that are certainly the strongest parts of the episode, but they still compare poorly to the vehicle segments in the main game. Still, as said previously, that final battle is fantastic, all i could say against it is that some more enemy variety might have helped it. The hunters are cool enemies, but they're also massive bullet sponges, and the number of hunters you face can, especially on hard, really reduce the number of viable tactics you have for quickly clearing out enemies so you can safely throw the sticky bombs at the striders.

Perhaps more than anything else, i have a somewhat renewed appreciation for the core game, with the episodes being a slightly less polished and slightly askew version of what that game offered.

[SecretAsianMan]

Your points about Episode One are accurate.  I agree that it didn't really do much to add to the Half-Life formula.  Personally, I'm ok with that because I wasn't expecting anything like that to begin with, but I can understand wanting more and being disappointed you didn't get it.

 

My memories of Episode Two are kind of tainted, ironically by 2 achievements that I stupidly decided I wanted to get.  The first was launching the gnome into space by sticking him in the rocket, the second was not letting any buildings get destroyed during the strider battle.  The gnome one was extremely frustrating because it was nearly impossible to get him to stay in the car so I had to keep stopping.  The second one I never got at all.  It's completely unfair to say I didn't enjoy the second episode as much because of these things, but them's the breaks.

 

Also a little tip about the hunters: if you hit one with an object that has a few of their projectiles in it, it will instantly kill them.  They disintegrate as if they were hit by an energy ball.  Just hold something with your gravity gun, let them shoot it, then fire it at them.

[Dewar]

Is it wierd that I'm not interested in playing Episode 1 and 2 until Valve either releases Epsiode 3 (concluding the story,) or Half Life 3 (proving that they don't intend to conclude the story.)

[Sno]

Is it wierd that I'm not interested in playing Episode 1 and 2 until Valve either releases Epsiode 3 (concluding the story,) or Half Life 3 (proving that they don't intend to conclude the story.)

Whether it's Episode 3 or Half-Life 3, i think the story is pretty much set in stone considering the corner they write themselves into with Episode 2. (Pretty much all of which is setup for a big narrative arc that, thus far, has not happened.)

If Half-Life 3 comes out and it's just some random crazy other story that is only loosely connected to the prior events, like what happened in the jump between Half-Life and Half-Life 2, i think people would be pretty rightly upset. Episode 2 doesn't leave a lot of room for alternatives, it sets up a lot of promises and leaves a lot of threads hanging.