Dark Souls(Demon's Souls successor)

[Golden Calf]

I beat the game without upgrading my armor once. It never seemed that valuable to me.

[bkbroiler]

I beat the game without upgrading my armor once. It never seemed that valuable to me.

Yep. Never upgraded a shield either. And it's not like I'm crazy good at the game, either. I get hit all the time. I just never found it necessary.

[JonCole]

Yep. Never upgraded a shield either. And it's not like I'm crazy good at the game, either. I get hit all the time. I just never found it necessary.

 

Upgrading shields is totally worth it, at least the ones that get stability increased with upgrades. Anything that maximizes stamina conservation is good, in my experience.

[BenLuke]

DON'T NEED ARMOR IF YOU NEVER GET HIT

Fashion Souls best souls.

 

Also I don't know what I'm doing in this game but I've discovered upgrading armor and shields is a good thing to do TM.

[Korax]

I didn't realize the final boss was so soon after opening the Lord Vessel door. I put down my summon sign and five minutes later I was helping someone beat the game!

 

Had fun doing some co-op with Cine and ROCKING some Forest Hunters.

 

I finished the Artorias of the Abyss DLC, explored the Great Hollow & Ash Lake, and I even encountered an Evil Vagrant (http://darksouls.wikidot.com/vagrant)! I've been so absorbed by this game that I've missed a couple Spelunky Daily challenges, as well.

[Griddlelol]

I'm back in the saddle!

 

Fired up DS today after a few weeks of not playing and realised I was at a tough boss - Manus. The first attempt was me poking him, relearning his mechanics and eventually dying after very slowly chipping him down to about 20%!

Second attempt I killed him using the patented Griddlelol's One Last Hit Out of Panic tactic. He had about 10% left and I was full HP so I just two-handed my katana and went to town on him. One more hit and I would have been dead though! What a great fight. Once you learn Manus' tells he becomes pretty easy. Now for Kalmeet, which is proving to be another of those "learn the tells and you'll be fine" fights. Still tough though! 

 

I did have a sudden moment today though.

Speaking to the giant who shoots down Kalmeet, I realised that the story behind this all is fascinating. I want to know why this blind giant has a fucking huge bow and is adept at (or adept at helping with) dragon slaying. Also, that rather potentially bland characters like...a giant, have been made really interesting.

[Gormongous]

Fired up DS today after a few weeks of not playing and realised I was at a tough boss - Manus. The first attempt was me poking him, relearning his mechanics and eventually dying after very slowly chipping him down to about 20%!

Second attempt I killed him using the patented Griddlelol's One Last Hit Out of Panic tactic. He had about 10% left and I was full HP so I just two-handed my katana and went to town on him. One more hit and I would have been dead though! What a great fight. Once you learn Manus' tells he becomes pretty easy. Now for Kalmeet, which is proving to be another of those "learn the tells and you'll be fine" fights. Still tough though!

 

I'm kinda glad you took the break, I'm almost caught up with you now. I just beat Kalameet (online consensus is to circle and roll, but I was able to tank him with the Greatshield of Artorias after cutting off his tail) and am now standing outside of Manus' room. Good to know his is not a tricky boss fight. I got really angry again, like I haven't since the Catacombs or Blighttown, fighting the Bed of Chaos. Puzzle bosses are never fun, but puzzle bosses fought while parts of the environment are falling away are the least fun. It was such a huge contrast to the Demon Ruins and Lost Izalith, which felt like a resounding confirmation and celebration of my build and skills and knowledge.

 

I also got invaded twice in the Oolacile Township, making it six times total I've been invaded. I know there's been a lot of talk in the Dark Souls 2 thread about how much random invasions are missed there, but I think I've come to the conclusion that they just don't work for me, not how they're implemented in the first Dark Souls. Here's the pattern for every single time I've been invaded:

• I find a new bonfire at the start of a new area.
• I go human to kindle it, but get kicked out of the bonfire menu instead.
• I walk to and from the bonfire a couple times, looking for enemies that might have interrupted the prompt and trying to get it back.
• I realize I'm being invaded and pull out my smartphone, because invaders take at least five minutes to connect and spawn.
• I fight them for a bit.
• I get killed, because I don't have much PvP experience and don't want to just go for backstabs.
• I respawn next to the bonfire, go human, kindle it, and retrieve my souls.

I understand the idea behind invasions. They're supposed to add a chaotic element to spice up what can otherwise be the extremely methodical playstyle of an experienced Dark Souls player, while making there be a downside to being human for the summon ability and curse resistance. But even though I've spent multiple hours of the past few levels human, I've never been invaded like that. It's always some dude ambushing me while I'm doing basic character upkeep and hence making me wait for ten or fifteen minutes until I can get back to playing my game, minus the humanity I just spent. The last guy that invaded me bowed when he saw me and then shot me full of poison arrows while I returned the bow. Encouraging that kind of play to be restricted to certain areas with understood bounds sounds like a positive design choice to me.

[Sno]

From has been on the record multiple times about how they were not at all happy with the version of Bed of Chaos that ended up in the game, it just ended up that way because of time restrictions. (If i'm recalling this correctly, the original plans called for a kind of mobile vine monster slithering around a large and open arena.)

 

Persisting latency woes aside, the PVP combat generally works much better in DS2. Backstabs are much, much harder to initiate and rolls are generally much less abusable. Still, somebody coming in with a PVP-centric build to mess with you and your likely PVE-centric build still puts you at a significant disadvantage. Estus is disabled for phantoms though, and the adaptability stat lets you chug estus like crazy. There's also a covenant that automatically summons a protector for you from another related covenant. (There's even an item that lets you turn monsters in your world hostile towards invaders.)

Invasions being an always present threat also kind of makes them less predictable, you don't really run into "I've just restored to human aaaaand i'm being invaded." (Though you definitely get shades of that when going into the Bell Towers or the Rat King areas.)

However, as you allude to, invasion items in Dark Souls 2 are very limited and going through with it doesn't really have much of a pay-off anymore, so people just kind of aren't doing it in DS2.

[Griddlelol]

I think I did a bit of a hybrid of your strategy and whatever the online consensus is for Kalmeet. I tried my hardest to avoid everything by side stepping but I had my shield up most of the time. I didn't cut off her tail though. It was too high in the air for me to hit most of the time.

My weapon wasn't great for such a defensive fight. I would have preferred something slower that hit much harder, but DEX build!

I also got kicked out the fight ankhs to GFWL disconnecting. It was a perfect run too, I didn't get touched and got her down to like 20%. I was pretty angry. I managed to kill her on the reconnect, but it was horribly sloppy. I was constantly getting hit and healing up. Really enjoyed the DLC fights though. All of them were memorable.

I just need to head back to the undead asylum, upgrade my equipment then venture past The Lord Vessel.

The invasions do sound like a pain, but I wish I had some. Similarly, I wish I could go help so,e people out using coop. Playing completely single player diminishes the experience.

[Sno]

Are you playing offline?

 

The general problem with invasions is that, even when the game is hitting you with them semi-frequently, they happen just infrequently enough that you can never quite become comfortable with the ways a pvp fight is different from the pve combat.

Spending some time with one of the pvp covenants, or conducting some invasions yourself, is the surest way to get a handle on it, if you don't want to just perpetually be stomped by invaders whenever invasions happen.

Anyways, if you haven't done the return trip to the undead asylum, you haven't done the painted world either, so don't forget that. It's actually one of the more entertaining areas of the game. Have you done everything else?

[Griddlelol]

Painted world? I just tried Gwyn for he first time. I actually let him kill me because I wasn't ready for the end of my play through yet. Good job! Can you back stab him? I tried but never managed to do it. Is it possible to parry him?

Everything else? I've pretty much stuck to the main path except for the DLC. So I'm not sure. I don't want to miss out on anything!

Had a quick look and it appears I've not killed "Dark Sun Gwyndolin" nor have I killed Priscilla. Apparently there's a drop in the asylum that I missed. So I'll go back and grab that. It sucks that killing the final boss ends the game. I'd really like to be able to explore some and take on optional things after the final fight.

Yeah offline, but not intentionally. GFWL just fails for some reason.

[Sno]

If you find a "peculiar doll" in the undead asylum on the return visit, you can use it to interact with the large painting in the temple to the left of the main path through Anor Londo.

What about the ash lake, or the valley of the drakes? Ash lake is pretty cool and well worth seeing, it's hidden in the tree at the far end of the swamp beneath blighttown. Valley of the Drakes is mostly just connective tissue between several other areas, but at no point is it actually required for you to traverse it, so it's easily missed by most players.

Also, yes, you can parry Gwyn. Quite easily, as it so happens. It kind of breaks an otherwise very difficult fight.

[Griddlelol]

I've been to the Valley of the Drakes. Killed most the drakes thinking it was an area I needed to go through. The ash lake looks interesting, although there's no bosses there from what I can tell. I might as well have a look see. I'll probably look up how to get to these places as I didn't notice anything other than the knight in the Asylum. 

 

I actually found Gwyn to be pretty easy without parrying. Sure he does a lot of damage, but he's easy to stagger and my weapon was chewing through him without me bothering to learn any of his attack patterns. Hence why I let him kill me! Still going out on a parry would be a cool way to end the game. 

[Dewar]

I'm kinda glad you took the break, I'm almost caught up with you now. I just beat Kalameet (online consensus is to circle and roll, but I was able to tank him with the Greatshield of Artorias after cutting off his tail) and am now standing outside of Manus' room. Good to know his is not a tricky boss fight. I got really angry again, like I haven't since the Catacombs or Blighttown, fighting the Bed of Chaos. Puzzle bosses are never fun, but puzzle bosses fought while parts of the environment are falling away are the least fun. It was such a huge contrast to the Demon Ruins and Lost Izalith, which felt like a resounding confirmation and celebration of my build and skills and knowledge.

 

I also got invaded twice in the Oolacile Township, making it six times total I've been invaded. I know there's been a lot of talk in the Dark Souls 2 thread about how much random invasions are missed there, but I think I've come to the conclusion that they just don't work for me, not how they're implemented in the first Dark Souls. Here's the pattern for every single time I've been invaded:

• I find a new bonfire at the start of a new area.
• I go human to kindle it, but get kicked out of the bonfire menu instead.
• I walk to and from the bonfire a couple times, looking for enemies that might have interrupted the prompt and trying to get it back.
• I realize I'm being invaded and pull out my smartphone, because invaders take at least five minutes to connect and spawn.
• I fight them for a bit.
• I get killed, because I don't have much PvP experience and don't want to just go for backstabs.
• I respawn next to the bonfire, go human, kindle it, and retrieve my souls.

I understand the idea behind invasions. They're supposed to add a chaotic element to spice up what can otherwise be the extremely methodical playstyle of an experienced Dark Souls player, while making there be a downside to being human for the summon ability and curse resistance. But even though I've spent multiple hours of the past few levels human, I've never been invaded like that. It's always some dude ambushing me while I'm doing basic character upkeep and hence making me wait for ten or fifteen minutes until I can get back to playing my game, minus the humanity I just spent. The last guy that invaded me bowed when he saw me and then shot me full of poison arrows while I returned the bow. Encouraging that kind of play to be restricted to certain areas with understood bounds sounds like a positive design choice to me.

 

The problem with DS1 right now is that only the hardcore PvPers are left still invading. It's better in DS2 where you get invaded by people of all skill levels. Also, the comparison of soul levels to matchmake is fundamentally broken, as you could spend tens of thousands of souls upgrading your equipment but still be at a low soul level. The matchmaking in DS2 is based on total souls collected.

[Sno]

The problem with soul memory is that if you're struggling with the game and losing all your souls, your soul memory is still going up.

It's a permanent record of every soul you collect.

It's still kind of a bad system.

[osmosisch]

I think it's a vast improvement over the soul level system, but yeah that doesn't exactly make it great.

[Sno]

If they could do something that calculated the soul value of your stats and your currently equipped gear and gear upgrades, that'd probably be closer to making a proper amount of sense. I guess they would have to disable the equipment screen once pvp or co-op has commenced though, to avoid that being easily broken as well. Or does that already happen? I've honestly never tried.

[Bjorn]

If they could do something that calculated the soul value of your stats and your currently equipped gear and gear upgrades, that'd probably be closer to making a proper amount of sense. I guess they would have to disable the equipment screen once pvp or co-op has commenced though, to avoid that being easily broken as well. Or does that already happen? I've honestly never tried.

 

They made it so you can't take off the PvP covenant rings in DS2 once in PvP, which was a tactic a lot of people used in the forest covenant in DS1.  Get summoned in, then quickly switch over to a useful ring.  But with 4 ring slots, having a covenant ring on isn't nearly as punishing now. 

 

I think it would be too punishing to not be able to switch equipment in PvP.  I don't do it a lot, but have occasionally.  I try to keep my inventory really pared down, and if I get into PvP and see a hexer, if I have a chance to switch to a good Dark shield, I will.  I've also been summoned in to the Bell Tower, and realized that my halberd was near breaking from PvE.  I'd be hosed in those situations if I couldn't switch.  There have also been a few times I've changed out to the Silvercat ring if I ended up way above an opponent, and wanted to be able to drop down without eating half my health. 

 

I don't know why they don't use a hybrid system.  For co-op, make a match based of either SM or Soul Level.  There are definitely some co-op places I really like, and would be glad to do longer if not for gradually moving out of soul range.  And for PvP, use just Soul Memory for the first one million souls, then move over to using both memory and level. 

 

The logic behind Soul Memory makes some sense.  It means that you can continue to have PvP and co-op even at high soul levels, which was something that didn't happen in DS1.  But I'm one of the people who likes PvP to be capped, as I think it's more interesting when you have to pick multiple dump stats to build a character. 

[Gormongous]

If they could do something that calculated the soul value of your stats and your currently equipped gear and gear upgrades, that'd probably be closer to making a proper amount of sense. I guess they would have to disable the equipment screen once pvp or co-op has commenced though, to avoid that being easily broken as well. Or does that already happen? I've honestly never tried.

 

Nah, you can switch gear during the spawning animation and once it finishes. I often do it to switch out the Cat Covenant ring for the Cloranthy.

 

I think all the time now about the total souls I've lost while playing, which is probably well over two hundred thousand, and how most of those were lost in the midsection of the game, when I was trying to get my feet under my build and when it would have sucked the most to be overestimated by the game.

 

 

EDIT: I beat Manus! You were right, Griddle, that he has really obvious tells, even though I wasn't very good at dodging them. I didn't up until this point in the game, but I think I'm beginning to understand why anyone would do an SL1 run, because I definitely shouldn't have beaten Manus with my level of understanding, stats, and gear, but Lightning Zweihander and Greatshield of Artorias save all faults.

 

According to the internet, I have nothing left undone except to kill Gwyn. Is there any reason I should be holding off? I tried farming for one last titanite slab to get my Elite Knight set up to +10, but got bored after maybe an hour of it.

[Griddlelol]

Well looks like you're ahead of me. I still have the Painted world left. I might check out the Ash lake, but frankly I really want to finish it. 

I'm using the elite knight set too. Everything is +5 but I don't really feel the need to farm. I have so much HP and Gwyn isn't particularly difficult at my current soul level. Hopefully I'll have Dark Souls finished by the end of this week. Feels good to say that!

 

Will you be picking up DS2 immediately Gormongous? I feel like I need a break, but then again I bet I'll be thinking about it constantly.

[Bjorn]

Well looks like you're ahead of me. I still have the Painted world left. I might check out the Ash lake, but frankly I really want to finish it. 

 

I'd vote for making the run to Ash Lake.  It's not that far from the bonfire you can warp to, and it is well worth it.  It's actually one of my favorite areas in the game in terms of atmosphere. 

[Griddlelol]

Fair enough. I will have a look. Hopefully tonight! I'm currently on the cusp of finishing two fantastic games that I'm massively late to. Obviously Dark Souls, but also Persona 4. 

Interestingly both are Japanese, and I've always told myself I do not like Japanese games (Nintendo is the exception). Also I'm much more of a PC gamer which limits the Japanese games you have access to. However after playing both of these, which I'm now feeling are going to be two of my favourite games ever, I need to pick up some more games from the east.

[Sno]

Japanese action RPG's generally have a level of crisp, precise control that i don't think you ever, ever see in western equivalents. Maybe some of that legacy with fighting games and character action games bleeding over.

Dragon's Dogma might be worth checking out, if you like what Dark Souls did. It's definitely a very distinct game from Dark Souls, but would probably scratch the same itch. It only came out on PS3 and 360 though. (Look for the re-release, Dark Arisen.)

[Dewar]

It might not help you much now, but Dragon's Dogma was free on PS+ a while back. So, if you obsessively download PS+ games without knowing what you're getting (like me,) you might already have it laying around.

[Griddlelol]

I actually played Dragon's Dogma but got fed up with backtracking through the rather boring world.

Also I had no clue what was going on most of the time, and the quests were really lame too. Go here, kill this dude, pick up his special thing, return to the quest giver. I was having fun with it at first but I just got tired after about 3 or 4 hours feeling like I wasn't moving the narrative nor my character forward.