Deus Ex 3

[Nachimir]

Yeah, the bosses are a massive shame.

I've been reading FAQs specifically for them because they're so annoying. I only got through that one by keeping a few praxis kits back to get the dermal upgrades just before.

[Irishjohn]

Ok. Sorry Internet. I'm ready to be a grown up again.

So....

I had enough Praxis points from a slightly earlier save to invest in the Typhoon aug, which I had ignored. It makes the boss fight beyond simple. Feels like an exploit at normal difficulty.

But I'm past it, thank God. Back to enjoying the game.

I'm definitely going to take a leaf out of your book Nachimir and do a little reading ahead for the next boss.

[Brannigan]

Keep a stock of explosive mines, makes the next boss super easy. I found him to be a lot easier than #2 actually.

[toblix]

My experience was very similar, Irishjohn. I got really frustrated with the first boss because I haven't specced for combat one bit, so I thought "never again" and got the Typhoon, which makes the second boss fight almost trivial since you can just spam it a couple of times and pow.

[JonCole]

I never tried the Typhoon... maybe on playthrough 2 or if I ever get the DLC, considering how much you guys say it helps.

[elmuerte]

Typhoon sucks, but it makes boss 2 easy as fuck.

[miffy495]

I beat the game without Typhoon. Maybe I should check it out if I do a replay, but for me it was barrels for the first guy, electric resistance for the second, and kiting the third dude into mines. Got the job done, but damn if the only reason I didn't start a replay of the game was the thought of seeing those fucking bosses again.

[toblix]

Seriously, the Typhoon makes the bosses trivial. Just get close to the enemy and fire. There's the whole fancy animation, so just spam Typhoon continuously to fire again right after, and you'll beat the boss after a couple of times.

[elmuerte]

Took me 2 typhoons and some bullets. I just wanted to be done with it.

[Nachimir]

Completed this the other night. The last levels felt kind of weird and rushed, especially as they started using horror conventions. Some nicely done bits, but they weren't all that hard. Maybe because I typically stockpile stuff in games.

Took down the third boss with a grenade,

laser rifle

, combat rifle, then a typhoon when he jumped over a wall right by me. I'd read that you can do a takedown on him as he hops down from a wall, but I guess there must be some finicky timing and positioning on it, because I tried it a few times and each time he reversed it for an instant kill on me.

At the end of the game, I tried out each ending. Liked that they're all

made of footage from real things in our recent past

. I thought the fiction didn't really plumb the issues it was dealing with amazingly. Never mind

antagonists from huge modernist conspiracy theories

; the idea of hacking a single person is really interesting and horrible. (EDIT) Likewise, the things that might make someone accept those risks. Why weren't the augs in Deus Ex having to contend with malware on an everyday basis, let alone espionage and hacking? It all had to be SIMULTANEOUS SUPER DRAMA WORLD CHANGING EVENT. There was a ready audience for conspiracy theories in the late 90s when the first Deus Ex was made, I think most people have moved on a bit now though. Syndicate looks like it's going to explore this kind of thing a lot more provocatively than DX:HR did.

That said, I did really enjoy Deus Ex. Beautifully built, and quality stealth gaming

[Sno]

Never mind

antagonists from huge modernist conspiracy theories

; the idea of hacking a single person is really interesting and horrible. Why weren't the augs in Deus Ex having to contend with malware on an everyday basis, let alone espionage and hacking? It all had to be SUPER DRAMA WORLD CHANGING EVENT. Syndicate looks like it's going to explore this kind of thing a lot more provocatively than this did.

If you want some cyberpunk that deals with the implications of people hacking, you should check out the Ghost in the Shell. (Particularly the series, Stand Alone Complex.)

[Nachimir]

Own both of the films, love them

[Sno]

Own both of the films, love them

Have you seen the series? It's really fantastic, i think it's probably better than the films.

[Brannigan]

I only saw the first movie but didn't really dig it. The series though was much better in my opinion.

[Nachimir]

Have you seen the series? It's really fantastic, i think it's probably better than the films.

Wasn't aware of it until your posts; thank you.

[Lu]

I loooove the series. It's a wonderful introduction to that universe too.

[Sno]

I would also argue that Human Revolution does deal with the implications of people hacking, and that it is more or less the entire point of the plot.

The problem is that the big bad isn't really all that eloquent about conveying his ideals, and that the player is allowed to more or less totally disregard his philosophy and dismiss his scheme as a jealousy play.

I mean, but the message i read out of the game is that these people have no ownership of their bodies. By augmenting themselves, they are essentially owned by whoever made those parts. I think that's what the villain is trying to get across by making all the augs go crazy.

It's a fascinating idea that i wish the game explored more competently. Even today, think about the ways you're locked into corporate ecosystems. You've invested into that iTunes library, you're locked into that market.

You can see slivers of the commentary in Human Revolution, but it falls just shy of making cogent arguments. I wish it was a smarter game, it's almost there, it almost has something to say.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Sno

[Nachimir]

It is meant to be the point of it, I just don't think global conspiracies are a great or interesting lens by which to examine it. There's just loads of potentially interesting stuff missing. You're right though, the idea of people no longer owning themselves through consumerism is weird and worth extrapolating from.

I think Stand Alone Complex is doing a much better job in general. Thanks for the recommendation, really enjoying everything about it with the exception of the Major always looking like she's on the vice squad and the frame lingering on her ass. It really doesn't need that kind of otaku bait to be incredibly interesting

[Jaraknarn]

Ok, this is some horrendous Threadomancy, seeing as the last post was in like…… November? But, I just picked up this game on the cheap, £8 from CEX, absolute bargain.

I've just finished my first play through and I've started a second trying to get the Pacifist and No alarms achievements.

First off, I think Edios Montreal did a fantastic job making this feel like Deus Ex, I could barely believe how much the game felt like the origional, the structure, the themes, the character interaction, the stealth. Even the Bosses! I know, I know, but I played through the origional just last year, so it was very fresh in my mind, and the bosses SUCKED in the first game, the only bright spot being that most of the time they forgot to lock the environment/arena so you could just run away until you hit a loading screen.

I know it might be controversial, but I think awful boss fights are the most damn Deus Exy thing about this game, Megalols.

Now while I agree the first bosses was just inexcusable, I had no problems with any of the others. The… let's call it the, "environment"… in the second boss, basically shouts at you the solution. The generators themselves take off damage, so on the lowest level a few Shotguns shells is all it takes. On the 3rd there's an almost comical glitch, where if you force him into his grenade throwing animation, run to a particular pillar and from then on he gets stuck at the end of the hallway and can't just be peppered until he goes down.

All that aside, this is the best game I've played this year, if not the last few. I really hope they get to interate on this design and improve on what they've already built.

The ending was awesome, at least I felt. I've never felt so conflicted over what decision to make, I no word of a lie, screamed at my tv "I don't f***ing know!! Tell me what to do!". For a Video game, that's pretty crazy, I know I invest into stuff pretty easily, but there were a few points in tthe game that got me man. That stuff with Malik? I reloaded that bit like 20 times trying to save her, but I didn't have the gear to kill that damn robot. I was furious with myself coz I couldn't work it out, that's a damn emersive experience if you ask me.

[Sno]

I really can't wait to see what those guys do with the Thief series.

[Nachimir]

That stuff with Malik? I reloaded that bit like 20 times trying to save her, but I didn't have the gear to kill that damn robot. I was furious with myself coz I couldn't work it out, that's a damn emersive experience if you ask me.

I was the same with that, because that was particularly challenging as someone who went stealth. A lot of the Hengsha stuff was well done;

the PMC actively trying to hunt and kill me meant I could stop being a pacifist without feeling like Adam was a jumped-up, psychopathic security guard

.

EMP grenades took out the bot, but you have to run to get into position in time. After that, it's matter of making a route to take out all of the soldiers, and I relied quite heavily on takedowns. This is close to the method I used, though I found I had to throw the EMP from the platform where this player does the double takedown. The bot always seemed to drop in earlier than in videos I've watched, so maybe I saved late.

Tph9vja-YWs

Even trying something like that, it took quite a few attempts; the heavy gunners and grenades can easily take out the chopper before you're near getting the last few.

I didn't feel as invested by the ending choice. It epitomises something that really disengages me about games that do multiple choice endings: You get to the end, so of course you've earned even more control. Getting an ending that coincides with your character and the way you've acted is optional. It reminds me of a TV game show, and is more like that than telling a story.

I greatly admired the way Stalker handled it: To an extent, the ending you got depended on your aggregate actions throughout the game.

[toblix]

First of all, thanks for posting in this thread rather than creating a new one or using the terrible "recently completed games" thread. Secondly, yeah, it's great game in almost all aspects; even peripheral stuff like the PC-specific UI (numpad works for entering key codes, mouse wheel actually scrolls tihngs) and multiple autosaves... everything was so polished!

My current favourite GDC talk is the one on Deus Ex: Human Revolution. It's obvious the team was really great; they really cared about the franchise, they worked hard and did so much stuff right. Also, they used Excel for so many things, like fully implementing the various hacking mini-games, balancing XP and items across levels. If you have GDC Vault access, you should watch it.

[Jaraknarn]

Yer, I came across that vid too, achievement hunting after I finished. It took me til the last boss fight/puzzle to work out that EMP grenades killed botz, doihye! The best was I always reloaded or dies before I reached the elevator, so I only say the fail state cut scene thingy once, flipping shattered my soul :-P

Anyway, its no problem Toblix! I even read through the entire damn thread, just so I didn't rehash too much that others had already said, just the kinda guy I am I'm afraid :-D

While I agree aggregate endings are far superior to the last room buttom press, I imagine they are horrificly hard to execute. With this game even more so, most of the choice is based on how you feel about augmentation and human behavior, how's a game supposed to pick up on that? It could pick it up from ur conversation choices yes, but the end choices were very nuances, how's it supposed to tell if that stuff you said to that random NPC about Aug being dangerous means you want regulation or and end to Augs?

I just don't think you as Jenson get to comment enough on your own opinion to give a system like that enough input data.

Also, in my playthrough, it didn't seem so much like a button press, as a way to choose between 3 integral game characters opinions and their personal quests. I naturally encountered all 3 opinions before I rreached the end, so I knew there would be a conflict/crunch time somewhere further along. I can understand how some might have missed that and just seen it as a wall of text ONLY.

Btw, have you heard of anyone who didn't go stealth? Almost the entire thread seemd to indicate that despite the option, everyone just played it as a stealth game, myself included.

[castorp]

I wish I had known beforehand that I was supposed to not kill in the pre-aug level as well to be considered a pacifist. I mean post-operation I had the tools and the skills to unconsciouscate everyone, but at the beginning they gave me just a gun – and I used it. Yeah, that’s the kind of pacifist I am.

(Not that I care about stupid achievements. Stupid mean achievements.)

[ThunderPeel2001]

I wish I had known beforehand that I was supposed to not kill in the pre-aug level as well to be considered a pacifist. I mean post-operation I had the tools and the skills to unconsciouscate everyone, but at the beginning they gave me just a gun – and I used it. Yeah, that’s the kind of pacifist I am.

(Not that I care about stupid achievements. Stupid mean achievements.)

I totally did the same thing.