Jump to content
gdf

Life

Recommended Posts

It's really not good. There's no reason behind this, just mindless frustration being taken out on local shop owners. I literally watched from 20 feet away as a group of five or six hooded youths decided to smash and ransack our locally owned corner shop. People were just walking past, some were looters, and so walked in, too.

Through the broken window I stood and watched as they smashed this little store to bits, looking for money. Eventually people came out, carrying bags of booze. One of the opportunist looters said to me, bottles of whiskey in hand, "go grab yourself a drink!". I looked at him, not wanting a confrontation, but not about to go and start looting. "Did you break that window?", he asked. I shook my head, "So go and grab some booze", he rationalized.

A few minutes after getting home, the news said that two shops had been set fire to. At least one of them with flats with people living above them. With the city in chaos there wasn't any fire trucks available, even though we live right next to a station. According to the news, they eventually they came. Hopefully nobody was hurt.

In all my local high street has been totally ransacked. Almost every shop having been broken into and damaged in some way. Even Clinton Cards, FFS (who they hell goes looting for greeting cards and party balloons?). It's a horrible mess.

The whole thing has led to more copycat riots across the country, so it's not even localised to London anymore.

This is what I wanted to yell: http://www.twitvid.com/4JTZH

Edited by ThunderPeel2001

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems mindless and infuriatingly opportunistic. I don't know the circumstances of the 'man in Tottenham' who got shot by the police, but this is certainly a deplorable way to react. Shameful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well in the cold light of day, people are asking more questions about "why", and I have to agree that it is a bit simplistic to say it's "mindless" (not singling you out, Rodi, it's what I wrote, too). It was certainly opportunistic, but I suppose there has to be a reason the thought it was OK do this to their own communities.

I was listening to some riot expert/professory type and he was saying that there had to be underlying reasons, as the people who did what they did, did so with full awareness. What made them think it was OK? What made them not care about the police? Not care about their own community? I worry that there's a sad message beneath all of this: The Government having cut too deeply into these peoples' lives through public services, and ended up making them feel no longer part of their community, their city, without any propects.

Some might say that's liberal-minded nonsense, and I don't have a lot to counter that, but I did hear that the areas that got hit have 30% youth unemployment. I can certainly understand that if you feel you've not future, you've got nothing to lose, so why not just say, "fuck it". Nobody else cares about you, right?

Anyways, it's all a bit scary and upsetting. Especially with having happened right outside my front door.

Here's some photos I took last night as things were still going on. I think every shop in the high street had broken windows, and you could watch opportunists nipping into them. The police arrived but did nothing, being massively under-prepared. Shortly after I left the looters set fire to a local shop with flats above it (possibly by accident, I don't know).

185317_10150333553350540_520980539_9947437_3315016_n.jpg

282495_10150333552845540_520980539_9947427_6069640_n.jpg

Edited by ThunderPeel2001

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find it very hard to empathize with these people. They're hurting whatever cause they think they are fighting for.

This reminds me of what happened in the Parisian banlieus a few years back. I'm sure there's a solid undergrowth of problems with unemployment, perhaps racism or oppression, et cetera. But that doesn not excuse people from just doing what they want to and ruining their neighbourhoods. At the root of any other crime is always a reason too, something understandable.

They could've protested in other ways. Civil disobedience. Silent protests. Ghandi did it, and his problems were insurmountably bigger than theirs. Nelson Mandela didn't choose violence. These folks do, and the punishment they will inevitably get is their just desert.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I find it very hard to empathize with these people. They're hurting whatever cause they think they are fighting for.

I don't think they're "fighting for a cause" at this point so much as "lashing out in frustration and desperation". The dam has broken.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't think they're "fighting for a cause" at this point so much as "lashing out in frustration and desperation". The dam has broken.

Yep, I think that's right. Hopefully the pressure valve has been released now. I can't imagine it continuing tonight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
From the other topic:

But I will take your prayer, kind sir, and funnel it into getting a job in the coming months, which I do sorely need.

On a related note, say that I wanted to live in Japan for a while and sustain myself there through some, 'job', let's vulgarly name it, does any of you have any leads on how to do that? I speak half a word of Japanese. Ideally there'd be some programme or other, but they've all dried up in this climate. I'm looking at my options.

I have no idea! Do I have to engage with the yakuza? I hear they pretty much run that business.
I've been mulling over a job posting for the position of librarian in an exclusive English-speaking club in Japan (The Tokyo American Club -it's the highest of brows). I'm so tempted to do it, since it seems the best way to get into a job situation in that country --and it's work that I will probably really like, even if it's not something I'm schooled in.

The biggest downside is the insane risk I'd be taking of course. It would mean giving up everything here and going on a crazy (and AWESOME) journey to the other side of the world. Now I have some precedence in doing that sort of thing (the Hollywood internship two years ago), but this would be an order of magnitude more serious, longer and even more 'definite'. Scary stuff!

Thanks for the encouragement, fine Thumbs :tup: I have just sent in the application letter + resume. As the religious Dutch fishermen of yore would exclaim before trying to tackle a codfish: god zegene de greep! (god bless [my] grip!)

If all works out, Scrobbs, I'll be happy to eat some sushi with you and your sparkling new wife ^_^

Holy shit that is such awesome text to read. I really hope you can make it and get there mate!

Japan is quite a crazy place in good and bad way. Especially your future working place would be in Tokyo of all places. Man that place is huge and crazy.

Every time I go there to the different areas of the megacity, it just makes my heart race and my eyes cry tears of joy and sadness at the same time. There's way too many people there, but then everything is so amazing, unique and just mind blowing that it's like a drug.

What does the Tokyo American Club do by the way?

If I went there at some point for good, I would propably live as a net cafe hobo while my wife would propably get work immediately anywhere with her resume.

I do have to add that this has been an interesting summer, the summer is pretty much gone now so it's mainly rain and shit here in Western coast of Finland. I had super fun sick leave for the part that I went to Japan and it was 36 all the time and the cast in my hand was making my hand sweat like hell. We mostly stayed in Kanagawa, but we also had an amazing trip to Kusatsu to the mountains where some awesome onsen places are. It was quite something to go to onsen while wearing a cast, I propably wasn't even allowed because you are supposed to be totally naked there and not bring any bacteria in etc. but I just sneaked in with the cast in my hand covered by the only small towel you are given there.

Now I'm back to work and the cast has been off since two weeks, my thumb is moving better, but is numb on the side, because apparently the good doctors made some nerve damage when they cut my hand. They say it SHOULD get better on it's own and the nerve damage should dissappear, but lets see. The thumb doesn't bend normally yet, but I hope it will in a month's time.

On a really serious note, what the fuck is happening in England of all places?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I find it very hard to empathize with these people. They're hurting whatever cause they think they are fighting for.

As Sal says, they're not fighting for a cause.

Like just about anyone commenting on this, I'm having to issue this caveat with it: I don't agree with the looting and property damage these people are dealing out.

As Thunder says though, to call it mindless is simplistic. Excluding greed as a motive is also simplistic. Behind that though, people are angry. In the past few years we've had scandals with banks, MPs expenses, the press and the Police force, then on top of that spending cuts that disproportionately affect the poor. There is no trust left, and a lot of rage built up.

Most people I know with any connection to these communities have said the same thing: This is not a surprise, and has been brewing for a long time. Peaceful protest has often led to no attention at all. Now they're rioting and finally getting it.

The best response a lot of people seem to be able to muster is class chauvinism, which makes me as sad as the rioting does. It upsets me that the actions of a minority will now probably be used to grind down communities that have done no wrong and are already impoverished and struggling. As someone put it:

Norway loses 92 children and suggests more democracy. We lose 12 JD Sports and some Nandos and demand the army and rubber bullets

It's a really fucked and largely self-perpetuating situation. If people could see the gaping holes in our ideal of meritocracy, maybe we'd be nearer to some solutions (edit: But instead we're stuck with a class divide as big as ever). It's been good to see how quickly people have taken it on themselves to protect small businesses and clean up.

So far, Nottingham has gotten away fairly lightly. Thirty people burning cars and trying to get into businesses last night, but there were a hundred police out against them. The Hackspace is situated quite close to the neighbourhood it started in; our bin got torched but that's it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm so disconnected from the UK despite my citizenship, but my heart breaks to see this and I feel so frustrated that we apparently knew it was coming. I remember Blackbird Leys back when that blew up in '91 (oh gods I am old), and the muddled mess of "fixes" and promises that no-one delivered. You can't disenfranchise and ghettoize entire segments of your population and expect nothing to happen!

Everything everywhere is going to shit. Civilization is crumbling. Slow-motion Ragnarök.

(Stay safe, Thumbs.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's an interesting piece on it:

It reminds me of the famous psychological experiment in which two identical cars were abandoned, one on a street in Palo Alto, the other in a downmarket part of New York. The New York car was vandalised and stripped instantly, but the one in Palo Alto remained untouched for a week. Then the experimenters smashed its windscreen — with the result that the vehicle was comprehensively trashed in a day. In other words, in normal circumstances, the behavioural barrier to smashing a shop window is quite high. But once one shop has been violated, then the barrier is immediately lowered. When a dozen shops have been done, then effectively all restraints vanish.

Boris Johnson has been on telly today saying "It's high time we stopped hearing these sociological explanations for what is simply just out and out criminality". It makes me sad to see politicians already trying to shut down these lines of thought and reinforce tabloid thinking.

Edited by Nachimir
Added link

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Holy shit that is such awesome text to read. I really hope you can make it and get there mate!

[...]

What does the Tokyo American Club do by the way?

I haven't heard from them yet, but have sent a follow up. I really hope to get a reply in the next coming days, otherwise the avenue's as good as closed for me. The Club is an expensive 'western' haven for expats and diplomats. Families can go there to relax and swim or borrow some English books, but there's also places for business, a restaurant, room for events. It's a very broad complex for just about anything you'd want to do in a community.

I also want to make clear that with what I said about the riots; I didn't mean to take on a tabloid tone of 'fuck those minority hooligans'. I empathize with their plight, just not with their actions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As Thunder says though, to call it mindless is simplistic. Excluding greed as a motive is also simplistic. Behind that though, people are angry. In the past few years we've had scandals with banks, MPs expenses, the press and the Police force, then on top of that spending cuts that disproportionately affect the poor. There is no trust left, and a lot of rage built up.

Most people I know with any connection to these communities have said the same thing: This is not a surprise, and has been brewing for a long time. Peaceful protest has often led to no attention at all. Now they're rioting and finally getting it.

Then set parliament on fire.

You don't shit where you eat. You don't ruin your own neighborhood when you're angry at the sheriff.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you're not willing to read the piece I linked, then please take whatever you're assuming I said and shove it up your poop flue, elmuerte. You're the only Thumb that has ever made it onto my ignore list, and you've been there quite a while because of your ignorant drive by snipes on people and persistent negativity.

Basically, I can rely on everyone else to quote anything memorable you say. For instance, this from just the other day:

Ok, so let's start with the first entry, "Custer's Revenge". So, why exactly is she bound to the totempole in her own village? (is it even here village? or the village of a rival tribe?). Also, she's smiling. The box doesn't mention rape. So it is pretty much comes down to what you want to read into it. And some people prefer to see it as rape rather than forbidden love.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Everything everywhere is going to shit. Civilization is crumbling. Slow-motion Ragnarök.

A teensy bit negative there :)

Here's another photo I took, from today. The police had cordoned off the street in four directions (where all the looting had taken place). In the distance you can see the burnt out remains of the shop and flat I mentioned before.

262996_10150334095970540_520980539_9952316_3481779_n.jpg

Yet despite all this, the atmosphere was one of positivity and togetherness. It was heart-warming to see stop many people with brooms out there, coming to help clean up our streets from all over London.

Edited by ThunderPeel2001

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As Sal says, they're not fighting for a cause.

Like just about anyone commenting on this, I'm having to issue this caveat with it: I don't agree with the looting and property damage these people are dealing out.

As Thunder says though, to call it mindless is simplistic. Excluding greed as a motive is also simplistic. Behind that though, people are angry. In the past few years we've had scandals with banks, MPs expenses, the press and the Police force, then on top of that spending cuts that disproportionately affect the poor. There is no trust left, and a lot of rage built up.

Most people I know with any connection to these communities have said the same thing: This is not a surprise, and has been brewing for a long time. Peaceful protest has often led to no attention at all. Now they're rioting and finally getting it.

Very well put :tup:

Also very sad to hear Boris Johnson's attempt to prevent any attempts at looking at government decisions as a possible factor. Yeah, that's right Boris, trying to learn why we're suddenly having the worst riots in 30 years is a silly thing. Let's ignore the cause and just focus on the problem... Ugh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If you're not willing to read the piece I linked, then please take whatever you're assuming I said and shove it up your poop flue, elmuerte. You're the only Thumb that has ever made it onto my ignore list, and you've been there quite a while because of your ignorant drive by snipes on people and persistent negativity.

I didn't read it before my previous post, I'm not even sure if I saw that post before I replied. But I have read it now, and to me it gives sort of the opposite message of what you said in the part I quoted. Your message gave me the impression that it was the youth raging against the government by destroying their own community, which to me is just simply moronic. Same think like football supported beat up half their city when their team wins/loses.

The main message I got from Naughton's post was the group of outsiders rallying up the locals to start a riot and "profit" from it, in sort of a past time activity or my looting. And not so much about doing the anti-government stuff.

From the few reports I read/listed about these riots it sounded much more like people partying (by fucking up stuff), and not really about changing the status quo as it was the case in other countries. But sure, I must have been miss-informed by single sided media that's just there for the sensation. (not sarcasm)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Norway loses 92 children and suggests more democracy. We lose 12 JD Sports and some Nandos and demand the army and rubber bullets

While I don't endorse the whole army-and-rubber-bullets thing, I think this comparison isn't entirely even. Behring was one man who was apprehended after three hours. The damage he did in those three hours was, of course, absolutely horrendous, and human life is obviously infinitely more valuable than property, but I presume the reason people are suggesting such extreme measures is that they feel that there's no clear end in sight for this. Had Behring been one of hundreds, or had he continued his abhorrent rampage for several nights, I'm sure there would be very few things the Norwegians wouldn't turn to to stop the madness. Still, the overall point of the quote is fair: let's not abandon our values.

I found discussing the riots at work today pretty draining, particularly with one co-worker who flat-out refuses to accept that society plays any role at all in the development of such destructive attitudes; in his words, "they're just idiots". I agree that they're idiots, but that can't be all that there is to it. I was so fed up that by the end of the day I decided to stay half an hour late rather than have to talk to him on the train. I don't look forward to having to endure more of that stuff tomorrow.

Edited by JamesM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I was so fed up that by the end of the day I decided to stay half an hour late rather than have to talk to him on the train.

The Hulk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I used to feel amazed by the size/scope and immensity of the universe. Now I find it horribly scary and depressing.

Also, I did get some anti-depressants from the Doctor. Apparently they take around 2 weeks to start working, so here's hoping, right? :):tup:

EDIT: It's times like this I wish I could be religious. Blissfully unaware, right until the very end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Hulk.

Don't make me angry. I'll turn green and evasive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I used to feel amazed by the size/scope and immensity of the universe. Now I find it horribly scary and depressing.

EDIT: It's times like this I wish I could be religious. Blissfully unaware, right until the very end.

I share those sentiments. When I'm feeling happy, the universe is an amazing thing, but when I feel depressed/anxious (as has been sparked by these silly riots, and by recent bouts of loneliness) it starts looking scary again. Keep in there :tup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
While I don't endorse the whole army-and-rubber-bullets thing, I think this comparison isn't entirely even.

You're absolutely right about that. Sorry, bad comparison.

I can't see them being as bad tonight; last night was probably the peak for most places. There's loads of rain forecast for tomorrow too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Also, I did get some anti-depressants from the Doctor. Apparently they take around 2 weeks to start working, so here's hoping, right? :):tup:

Hooray! Better living through chemicals! Something I know about!

Give them at least 6 weeks, to be sure - it can take that long to reach a steady state. You may find you get odd side effects during the first few weeks that go away after a while - or that there are side effects that take some time to come to the fore. It's part and parcel of things that affect brain chemistry.

I highly recommend you look up your drug on CrazyMeds so you know a little of the details of how it works, how it may affect you and what alternatives you have if this one doesn't work out.

Also take advantage of the mood lift to get yourself an appointment or three for talk therapy (your uni's student services or equivalent may even have counseling available). Think of it as a two-pronged attack on the creeping enemy of DePress.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed, anti-depressants + therapy has shown to be the most successful treatment.

Top tips: It's normal for side-effects (if you get any) to subside after a few weeks. And when you decide to stop taking tablets, don't go cold turkey. Taper off in order to reduce the same or worse side-effects.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×