Minish Cap

[toblix]

More like Minish Crap!

Okay, everyone complaining about my complaining, listen the fuck up.

I just finished Oracle of [seasons/Ages] and immediately started playing Minish Cap. And this... this game... it's fantastic! And why? It has wonderful 2d graphics, like a Mario & Luigi Partners in Zelda! Also, the dialogue makes more sense, the movement and animations are much smoother. The sound and music is better. The first dungeon, although I'm only halfway through, is excellent! Why aren't there more 2D Zeldas? I mean, even Phantom Hourglass is 3D, right? Why?

I don't know what the reasons are exactly, but I have loved every 2D Zelda game I've played, and hated all the 3D Zelda games. Granted, I've only played one 3D Zelda, and that was Ocarina of Time, but still... Even Twilight Princess looks kind of dull.

Anyway, Minish Cap rocks! Stay tuned for my complaining about it when it suddenly gets hard.

[lobotomy42]

More like Minish Crap!

Okay, everyone complaining about my complaining, listen the fuck up.

I just finished Oracle of [seasons/Ages] and immediately started playing Minish Cap. And this... this game... it's fantastic! And why? It has wonderful 2d graphics, like a Mario & Luigi Partners in Zelda! Also, the dialogue makes more sense, the movement and animations are much smoother. The sound and music is better. The first dungeon, although I'm only halfway through, is excellent! Why aren't there more 2D Zeldas? I mean, even Phantom Hourglass is 3D, right? Why?

I don't know what the reasons are exactly, but I have loved every 2D Zelda game I've played, and hated all the 3D Zelda games. Granted, I've only played one 3D Zelda, and that was Ocarina of Time, but still... Even Twilight Princess looks kind of dull.

Anyway, Minish Cap rocks! Stay tuned for my complaining about it when it suddenly gets hard.

Yeah, Minish Cap was pretty good. I never finished it, because I was playing a borrowed copy from a friend. But I got about 3/4 of the way through, and I enjoyed it. I really liked how they gave all these weird items like "Thing that flips over things upside down" instead of the more traditional Zelda items.

[toblix]

More like Minish Crap!

Okay, everyone complaining about my complaining, listen the fuck up.

I just finished Oracle of [seasons/Ages] and immediately started playing Minish Cap. And this... this game... it's fantastic! And why? It has wonderful 2d graphics, like a Mario & Luigi Partners in Zelda! Also, the dialogue makes more sense, the movement and animations are much smoother. The sound and music is better. The first dungeon, although I'm only halfway through, is excellent! Why aren't there more 2D Zeldas? I mean, even Phantom Hourglass is 3D, right? Why?

I don't know what the reasons are exactly, but I have loved every 2D Zelda game I've played, and hated all the 3D Zelda games. Granted, I've only played one 3D Zelda, and that was Ocarina of Time, but still... Even Twilight Princess looks kind of dull.

Anyway, Minish Cap rocks! Stay tuned for my complaining about it when it suddenly gets hard.

Yeah, Minish Cap was pretty good. I never finished it, because I was playing a borrowed copy from a friend. But I got about 3/4 of the way through, and I enjoyed it. I really liked how they gave all these weird items like "Thing that flips over things upside down" instead of the more traditional Zelda items.

Yeah, I'm really looking forward to the new items. The items in Oracle and Seasons were essentially the same, but when I got the jar of whatever the fuck in the first dungeon instead of a feather, I was like...

(((((((

)))))))Awesome!((((((()))))))

[Wrestlevania]

Good to hear you're enjoying yourself.

I put a few hours into Minish Cap and it's without doubt the slickest portable game I've ever played. The character designs, the animation, the scenery, the music, the sound effects--everything is absolutely flawless.

I've still yet to be grabbed by a Zelda adventure and see it through to the end, though. But that's just me.

[Noyb]

Stay tuned for my complaining about it when it suddenly gets hard.

Minish Cap was one of the easiest Zelda games I've played, the only one I actually beat without dying the first time through. Fun while it lasted, though.

[Moosferatu]

Sure it looks nice, but it's also super easy and has some of the lamest bosses ever.

[toblix]

Fuck all of you for berating Minish Cap!

Anyway, I'm glad to hear it's easy. I'm more a fan of the puzzle-element and the light fighting, and resorted to cheating to beat some of the bosses in Oracle.

I've played some more, and have beaten the first dungeon. Everything is so... wonderful about this game. Wow. I was kind of disappointed about not being able to throw bombs, though.

[miffy495]

Minish was indeed fantastic. I lent it to a friend when he got his gameboy about a year ago now. Haven't thought to get it back yet as I'd just beaten it when I lent it to him. I should really ask him about that and go for a replay.

[toblix]

Hah, I'm already stuck. After completing the first dungeon I don't know where to go. All the interesting places are blocked by carpenters, holes or guards. Am I supposed to dick more around in town, or what?

Figured it out.

So now I'm trying to get up to the hot spring. Jeez, you people said this was easy! Maybe there's something I've missed by skipping all the sucky 3D Zeldas.

[Thrik]

Sounds like I might have to pick this belter up. It's one of those games that's just sat on my "Maybe I should play this" list for an eternity.

.

You really should play Wind Waker, though. It is great and extremely pretty.

[Spaff]

minnish is great

your problem with 3d zelda toblix is that you chose the n64 versions, a console that sadly hides almost anything fun under a mountain of utterly and shockingly shit graphics. Play Wind waker, i loved that.... except the map finding part of course.

come to think of it, i never beat minnish, im half way through.. hmm where is that cart.

[Jake]

its true that 3D is overrated

[Aussie Ben]

Minish Cap has awesome 2D art, fun gameplay, tricky puzzles, and those kinstones to collect. I got all of them except one. ONE. Bugger that. Good fun though. I give it eight Bullet Bills.

[toblix]

The second dungeon, too, was also awesome as well! It's like I'm afraid to play the game any more, because I know it'll be the last of its kind. Even Phantom Hourglass will have shitty 3d 2d. Fuck that. Hand-made 2s is where it's at, with smooth pixely animations. I'm starting to cry over here.

[DanJW]

There's still Four Swords.

[Spaff]

phantom hourglass looks quite nice though, a windwaker style gfx. The 3d in windwaker is entirely great.

[Thrik]

Yeah, Phantom Hourglass looks wholly fantastic.

I'm going to say this again though: you should play Wind Waker. You know, the game that Minish Cap kind of based its art style on and probably a lot of its tone/atmosphere too. It does not at all feel like Ocarina of Time, and to discount all the 3D games because the first ever one that came out a decade ago seems a bit outdated for some reason is madness.

[toblix]

[...]to discount all the 3D games because the first ever one that came out a decade ago seems a bit outdated for some reason is madness.

I'm not saying that, I'm saying that why in the fuck would anyone use 3d to "simulate" 2d? The graphics in Minish is ten times prettier than anything Phantom Hourglass can present. There better be a really good reason for using 3D instead of 2D for a top down perspective, and I seriously doubt there is one. And I know it's a matter of taste. I'm sure most people think the 3d in Wind Waker is prettier, so I'll stop complaining right... now.

Also, the italic setting is busted. If I try writing separate words in italic, the cursor jumps to the end of the first italic word.

Now to look at that Four Swords. I thought that was just some multiplayer thingie...

Okay, one more:

[manny_c44]

3d is just more versatile: you can use the same model and animations from any angle, scaling/rotation is a breeze, it is much easier to tweak a 3d animation than a 2d one.

For example the boss fights in phantom hourglass look like they take place in a more traditional 3d space...and all of Link's animations and graphics can be reused, whereas they would have to be redrawn in 2d.

I like 2d as well, but for some applications it just isn't feasible.

[toblix]

Yeah, I know. I just think it's sad that games have to look uglier than they did before. I mean, it's not like making a pretty and fantastic 2D Zelda is impossible. They've done it like a million times. I guess they wouldn't "get away" with making more 2D Zeldas.

I guess I'm thinking that the net gain from going 3D will, for me, be far smaller than the net loss of not having wonderful 2D graphics.

[Thrik]

By the looks of it the gameplay is quite thickly interspersed with moments that simply could not happen in 2D. This is fairly obvious from watching the linked video above alone, but has also been something mentioned in previews and whatnot over the eternity it's been in development.

You do seem a little obsessed with graphics though. You're raining down on Phantom Hourglass ahead of time without even taking the gameplay implications of being a 2D/3D hybrid into account, which is fairly unchartered territory for the series. Okay, the core detail and artistic beauty may not be as intense (This is largely a DS restriction as Wind Waker remains the most attractive Zelda game ever, period.), but as an exchange you get much more fluid animations and movement, and more depth to the game world.

More of the same is all well and good to an extent, but come on guy -- there've been loads of 2D Zeldas. I don't think the world really wants too much more of that, and you can't say Nintendo haven't given it much more of a run than most other series get. The extra dimension and the stylus mixed in with primarily 2D gameplay makes for a lot more potential interesting gameplay. I'd take that over more desirable static graphics any day of the week.

[toblix]

By the looks of it the gameplay is quite thickly interspersed with moments that simply could not happen in 2D. This is fairly obvious from watching the linked video above alone, but has also been something mentioned in previews and whatnot over the eternity it's been in development.

I didn't see the Phantom Hourglass video link at first, only the Wind Waker one. WW looked nice though, but not fun.

You do seem a little obsessed with graphics though. You're raining down on Phantom Hourglass ahead of time without even taking the gameplay implications of being a 2D/3D hybrid into account, which is fairly unchartered territory for the series. Okay, the core detail and artistic beauty may not be as intense (This is largely a DS restriction as Wind Waker remains the most attractive Zelda game ever, period.), but as an exchange you get much more fluid animations and movement, and more depth to the game world.

Yeah, although from my experience I've always felt that 2d games convey tons more atmosphere than their inevitable 3d sequels. I prefer Broken Sword 1 & 2 over 3 & 4, Worms 1 & 2 & World Party over 3D, 2D Lemmings over Lemmings 3D, etc. Of course, all those games were not only 3D sequels, they were inferior games even not considering the graphics, so maybe my brain has been tricked by playing too many shitty sequels.

I think maybe I have an abnormally low tolerance for 3D graphics, though. For example, when I saw that Phantom Hourglass video I thought:

• The top-down stuff would've looked better in 2D.
  
• The 3D sailing stuff looked shit.
  
• The 3D Zelda, with the 8x8 pixel face texture, has to be a fucking joke.
  

So maybe I'm not being fair, and I'm letting my fetish for 2D graphics cloud my judgement. I completely understand why using 3D is cool, and all the cool stuff you can do with it. I know that people have loved the 3D Zeldas, and that Ocarina is considered to be totally awesome and that they're great games. It's just that I think they look shit, and they look boring.

The reason I like the 2D Zeldas is the puzzle aspect of it. I could do with no bosses at all and more mazes and more carts and more levers and more wands that flip shit over. What I've experienced of the 3D Zeldaverse is Ocarina, which as you know, looked so much like shit to me that I could not play it, and that Wind Waker movie, which looked like Prince of Persia Xtreme with a green cap on. I feel that the 3D stuff is enabling all that shit I don't like about Zelda (or any other games), the sword fighting and the traveling around some vast, uninteresting landscape.

More of the same is all well and good to an extent, but come on guy -- there've been loads of 2D Zeldas. I don't think the world really wants too much more of that, and you can't say Nintendo haven't given it much more of a run than most other series get. The extra dimension and the stylus mixed in with primarily 2D gameplay makes for a lot more potential interesting gameplay. I'd take that over more desirable static graphics any day of the week.

Sure, I completely understand. And who knows, maybe I fall in love with the new 3D/2D Zelda. God knows I'll at least buy it and have a go. Maybe a new dimension of fun will open up to me.

But even writing that last sentence hurts so much! It's like I'm everyone else is crazy: Don't they see Minish Cap? Don't they see Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time? Are they imaginary games? How can anyone who has seen those games not continue making games that look exactly like them? They are so... beautiful! Maybe, since I have no god, 2D graphics has taken His place in my soul or something.

[brkl]

That's funny, the first thing that came to my head about that Phantom Hourglass video was that it looks wonderful, and that I'm surprised the DS can do that.

[toblix]

That's funny, the first thing that came to my head about that Phantom Hourglass video was that it looks wonderful, and that I'm surprised the DS can do that.

Seriously? Wonderful? I mean, that graphics looks like something from a 90s PC-game.

[brkl]

No, they look like something from Wind Waker.