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So, just went back and skimmed some of the early comments twig, gormongous and synth gerbil posted I guess when Kill La Kill was airing. It's interesting how strongly people were reacting at the beginning, because I didn't really have that kind of reaction. Maybe because I had gotten a sense that it was going to turn out interesting, so I was willing to give it more leeway? Or maybe just because I watched all the episodes in 2 days so I processed it more as a single thing and less as the early episodes.

 

I will say that it seems like the first couple of episodes play a lot more with the sexy outfit jokes than the later ones, so maybe they just got it out of their system early on?

 

I thought the very nearly obscene pretty girl transformation sequence was actually sort of interesting, because by the end it seemed like a very intentional escalation of sexualization from, say, Sailor Moon into the modern day, possibly reflecting an interpretation of changing social mores regarding what's appropriate to represent. The fact that so many boys end up getting pretty girl transformations probably informs that. There were a surprising number of weirdly toned rape-ish "jokes" in the early episodes too, that I felt must have been being deployed thoughtfully, because the tone was weird in context, but maybe that's just me. Seeing things like episode 7, which I mentioned previously, may also have forced me to re-contextualize my impression of earlier content.

 

Eh, that's getting too heavy. In more fun news, 

I totally marked out when 2 Star Goku Uniform Fight Club President Mako gets another appearance at the end. So good.

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So, just went back and skimmed some of the early comments twig, gormongous and synth gerbil posted I guess when Kill La Kill was airing. It's interesting how strongly people were reacting at the beginning, because I didn't really have that kind of reaction. Maybe because I had gotten a sense that it was going to turn out interesting, so I was willing to give it more leeway? Or maybe just because I watched all the episodes in 2 days so I processed it more as a single thing and less as the early episodes.

 

I will say that it seems like the first couple of episodes play a lot more with the sexy outfit jokes than the later ones, so maybe they just got it out of their system early on?

 

I thought the very nearly obscene pretty girl transformation sequence was actually sort of interesting, because by the end it seemed like a very intentional escalation of sexualization from, say, Sailor Moon into the modern day, possibly reflecting an interpretation of changing social mores regarding what's appropriate to represent. The fact that so many boys end up getting pretty girl transformations probably informs that. There were a surprising number of weirdly toned rape-ish "jokes" in the early episodes too, that I felt must have been being deployed thoughtfully, because the tone was weird in context, but maybe that's just me. Seeing things like episode 7, which I mentioned previously, may also have forced me to re-contextualize my impression of earlier content.

 

I definitely think that watching anime as it airs almost demands a heightened sensitivity towards perceived missteps. Since everyone's gets the same amount of time to process an episode and everyone's working with incomplete information, there's no easy way to decide whether something is a temporary lapse, an intentional misstep in service of a larger theme, or the sign of shitty things to come. It just has to be taken on faith, which isn't necessarily bad, but still taints the viewing experience with concerns in a way that wouldn't otherwise be brought up. I feel like that's what's happened with Yuri Kuma Arashi for me. If I watched it six months from now, after word had gotten around that it's a lesser Ikuhara, I wouldn't feel so strongly about it.

 

As for KILL la KILL's sexual themes... I don't know. I waited for the transformation sequences to have a meaning, beyond using old animation references from "magical girl" anime, and they really didn't, besides occasionally involving men. Equal opportunity exploitation is better than nothing, but... eh. One of my favorite anime bloggers posted the article Kill la Kill = Exploitation + Empowerment? a while ago, which I want to believe but am not sure I can. I've watched a lot of GAINAX and GAINAX-imitating anime, but I've never gotten on board with "fan service with a purpose." It's something for which I'm still trying to train my palette, although my recent efforts to watch the Patlabor TV series haven't done much on that front.

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Ryuko's Japanese VA and her emotional range sold me on the 'good' interpretation of all the perverted stuff going on in that show.

 

If they really wanted purely exploitative take on it, her VA would have sounded lot more err 'porn-y' with her overall emotion level being either embarrassed or some form of, again, 'porn-y' face.  Like there is this one Marvel artist who draws every women with this same 'O' face that he got from some sort of porn and it's just... embarrassing even if they are better dressed.

 

For specifics, take every instance of when Ryuko takes a beating.  It would be so easy to take care of that with some hyper sexual moaning (which is so prevalent in anime overall) but they don't go that route.  And she gets bodied a lot too so it's pretty consistent on their end.  As for emote, she shows some of the best 'confident' look I have seen out of female protagonist and by far my favorite (tied with Haruhara Haruko) angry face

 

mPghEbU.jpg

 

My favorite.

 

Bottom line is, she is few protagonist that I want to become, and those are pretty rare for me.

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Bottom line is, she is few protagonist that I want to become, and those are pretty rare for me.

 

That's a good point. Ryuko has a very aspirational dimension to her as a hero, so even if she incorporates exploitative elements, which she indisputably does, she's not necessarily exploitative herself. Thanks, I'll chew on that for a while.

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I definitely think that watching anime as it airs almost demands a heightened sensitivity towards perceived missteps. Since everyone's gets the same amount of time to process an episode and everyone's working with incomplete information, there's no easy way to decide whether something is a temporary lapse, an intentional misstep in service of a larger theme, or the sign of shitty things to come.

Yeah, I get that. I even nearly turned it off after the first episode, and that's with people telling me that it's worth watching.  (Although, and I mean this in the nicest way possible, I basically don't trust anybody's opinion on anime.)

 

As for KILL la KILL's sexual themes... I don't know. I waited for the transformation sequences to have a meaning, beyond using old animation references from "magical girl" anime, and they really didn't, besides occasionally involving men. Equal opportunity exploitation is better than nothing, but... eh. One of my favorite anime bloggers posted the article Kill la Kill = Exploitation + Empowerment? a while ago, which I want to believe but am not sure I can. I've watched a lot of GAINAX and GAINAX-imitating anime, but I've never gotten on board with "fan service with a purpose." It's something for which I'm still trying to train my palette, although my recent efforts to watch the Patlabor TV series haven't done much on that front.

 

In recent years, I've become a big convert to the idea that a thing can be multiple contradictory things, exactly for things like this. I really have no problem with the idea that it's both exploitative and empowering, or both smart and dumb. (Fun fact: This realization hit me when walking by a Hot Topic in a local mall.) Sexual exploitation and empowerment in particular share a complex relationship in media that goes back at least as far as the exploitation films in the 70's.

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Ryuko's Japanese VA and her emotional range sold me on the 'good' interpretation of all the perverted stuff going on in that show.

 

If they really wanted purely exploitative take on it, her VA would have sounded lot more err 'porn-y' with her overall emotion level being either embarrassed or some form of, again, 'porn-y' face.  Like there is this one Marvel artist who draws every women with this same 'O' face that he got from some sort of porn and it's just... embarrassing even if they are better dressed.

 

For specifics, take every instance of when Ryuko takes a beating.  It would be so easy to take care of that with some hyper sexual moaning (which is so prevalent in anime overall) but they don't go that route.  And she gets bodied a lot too so it's pretty consistent on their end.  As for emote, she shows some of the best 'confident' look I have seen out of female protagonist and by far my favorite (tied with Haruhara Haruko) angry face

 

mPghEbU.jpg

 

My favorite.

 

Bottom line is, she is few protagonist that I want to become, and those are pretty rare for me.

 

For me all the wider talk about Kill La Kill can be boiled down to two episodes and whether people consider a quite disturbing moment of victimisation set-up be worth the moment of self empowerment we get in pay-off. I'm specifically talking about episodes 16 & 17.

 

 

So let break this down first the set-up episode 16's bathhouse scene

Here we have a crystal clear example of a director taking a previously strong, capable, intelligent female character & most importantly confident female character with no body shame, and by the end of one scene leaving her looking shaken, vulnerable, and ashamed.

That this occurs because she is for lack of any other term "raped" by her mother in a scene that specifically does all the things you mention above, framing of her body explicitly, the sexualised moaning, the implication that she is brought to a unwilling orgasm.

It's a horrible horrible scene she's been taken apart by one of the people she should trust the most, what instead is a clear abuse of power & as I've said before I find her face in the immediate aftermath deeply upsetting.

post-24580-0-28603400-1425834703_thumb.jpg

A important side note I'll return to later: the language used here Satsuki refers to Ragyo as "mother" "ma'ma" respectful terms, where as Ragyo does not refer directly refer to Satusuki during the incident instead commenting on "humanity's frailness"

 

At the time there were a good few of us who felt similarly disturbed by what went on and came very close to stopping watching.

 

However most of us didn't we mean we got episode 17.

 

It's time for the Kiryuins' moments of triumph, Satsuki & all the advisor are back to their normal bombastic selves (the event's of episode 16 seemingly having left her utterly unaffected) preparing for Ragyo's big visit, and Ryuko & co and to stop it to have their big confrontation with satsuki.

However even if Raygo knew about this she wouldn't be concerned,  this is very much about one person and one person only, herself. She is a ruler, and her words are absolute truth.

post-24580-0-58588600-1425838154_thumb.jpg

post-24580-0-03310900-1425838153_thumb.jpg

As far as she's concerned everything is going to plan, everything she wanted of Satsuki has been accomplished for her

Even this most confident of tyrants has never been so sure of herself,there is no one she see's as a threat 

post-24580-0-36264000-1425839606_thumb.jpg

And why should she? After what we see in episode 16 where she utterly imposes her will on the most formidable formidable character in the series.

She seeths contempt, arrogance, & is willing to use even her own child to fulfil her desires, a perfectly hateful villian

hich is just as well as there's someone to knock her down to size.

 

However it's doesn't come from the direct she (or we) expected in perhaps one of the most perfectly framed moments of cathartic revenge I can remember in any series ever Satsuki decides it time she stopped obeying her mother & takes down the "director"

post-24580-0-85502600-1425836150_thumb.jpg

For me the switch from "mother " in the previous episode to "director" in this is important, a change from the familial to the impersonal. A subtle hint that the facade of deference and obedience is about to be dropped.

 

Even after this her Raygo is only capable of seeing her actions from her own self cetred viewpoint, Satsuki could only want the same thing she wants, power.

post-24580-0-64972400-1425836294_thumb.jpg

a acusation that satsuki most excellently refutes (my personal favourite angry face from the series btw)

post-24580-0-90742200-1425835375_thumb.jpg

 

This is about a decision she has made, morale one, a tough one, one she has given up her own childhood for, and no self centred monster is going to take what she has made away from her. This is her moment the moment she stands and fights.

post-24580-0-18448000-1425836612_thumb.jpg

 

I don't think any of those moments would have resonated as strongly if we hadn't had what occurred in episode 16 however, It feels like Satusuki had to be de-constructed, so she could have her moment of defiance, where she asserts herself & reconstruct herself, a self made woman proud of who she is and what she has done.

But I'm still unsure if i can condone it I mean that was difficult for me to watch from a the viewpoint of someone who's never been abused or felt under the threat of rape i can't begin to understand what it might have felt like to someone has that as part of their life experience.

 

 

Bottom line: Is it acceptable for a director deliberately set out to create a negative reaction in a empathic audience towards the sexualisation of a character while also potentially titillates others who don't feel that empathy for dramatic ends (regardless of if the victim gets to to make violent payback).

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Bottom line: Is it acceptable for a director deliberately set out to create a negative reaction in a empathic audience towards the sexualisation of a character while also potentially titillates others who don't feel that empathy for dramatic ends (regardless of if the victim gets to to make violent payback).

 

Completely acceptable.  Now I get it if some people have issues with in regards to how 'well' it was pulled off (I found pretty good arguments on where Kill La Kill have some major fails in that regard due to what they seem as unnecessary 'repeat' in what was it, 19 or 20?), and if they argue for why this or that specific work was unacceptable then ok.  But I don't buy the broader argument that such things should never be attempted because that basically means let's never ever write characters with ethical behavior anything other than good.

 

Not every R rated murder scene is component of snuff film.  Some could be, but it would have to be more than "there was a gory murder".  Same thing for sexual violence.  Some of them could be gross appeal to rape-culture, but sexual violence alone doesn't automatically mean that.

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I got to the point in Dragon Ball Xenoverse where I'm playing newer content from the newest movie (Battle of Gods) and so I spoiled some of the movie. ):

Only a bit, though, and it actually looks like it might be kinda funny if the single cutscene I watched is any indication. But now I'm conflicted. Do I keep playing dumb DBZ game or do I stop until I catch up on dumb DBZ anime! Dang dumb. ):

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I was curious, so I'm re-watching FLCL.

 

I'm not sure that I still think it's good. Aside from the music (which is both terrific and well-used), I'm not sure that there's anything about it that I really click with. I'm only halfway through, so maybe I'll feel differently by the end.

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Something about FLCL resonates with me personally so deeply that it is easily my #1 favorite work of fiction of all time thus far.  But it is very personal so hard to say how I think it fares more objectively against other stuff.

 

I have 2 unopened boxes of FLCL collector's edition DVD box sets, 2 complete individual dvd sets, the Bluray release, 1 set of all the soundtracks, 1 set of all the soundtracks unopened, a 2004 calendar that i never used cause I don't use calendar, 1 illustration and 1 'Groundwork of FLCL' which shows key animation frames from some parts of the series.  And I probably watched FLCL from start to finish like... over 30 times?  So yeah, I can't see that series with any objectivity at all.

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Well holy shit the new Dragon Ball movie, Battle of Gods, is actually pretty good!

Really funny stuff (especially if you're a fan of Dragon Ball, probably only if), especially with Vegeta. Hahah man Vegeta just, it's hilarious seeing him trying to keep someone else from getting mad. Thumbs up. Also nice that the antagonist wasn't really a bad guy so much as much a more powerful, and much less empathetic version of Goku.

 

If you like DBZ I recommend it. U:

 

Here I am all stoked now for the next DBZ movie coming out NEXT MONTH!!!

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I thought the very nearly obscene pretty girl transformation sequence was actually sort of interesting, because by the end it seemed like a very intentional escalation of sexualization from, say, Sailor Moon into the modern day, possibly reflecting an interpretation of changing social mores regarding what's appropriate to represent. The fact that so many boys end up getting pretty girl transformations probably informs that. There were a surprising number of weirdly toned rape-ish "jokes" in the early episodes too, that I felt must have been being deployed thoughtfully, because the tone was weird in context, but maybe that's just me. Seeing things like episode 7, which I mentioned previously, may also have forced me to re-contextualize my impression of earlier content.

I think everything that Kill la Kill did in terms of transformations was already done in a way more convincing and subversive manner in Panty and Stocking already. Kill la Kill is just so... sleazy in comparison, since with Panty and Stocking that all started and ending during the transformation, they were otherwise oddly drawn characters that were not sexually attractive unless in their anime form.

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I just got to episode 12 of mushishi.

I really wish they didn't go into Ginko's origin story. I really liked the pockets of hints in previous episodes that slowly revealed his character, especially in the episode before this one where it revealed a lot about his inner emotional landscape and his profound loneliness (that episode, episode 11, was probably my favorite so far in terms of theatrics and weird concepts). Also stuff like what he was smoking and why were little surprises that kept me watching, and I was really disappointed to see a lot of it laid out like it was in this episode.

Though what I did like was that it really put Ginko's actions and feelings in the last episode into perspective. They almost completely mirror each other, both with an apprentice Mushishi coming to grips with a new role in the world, with two masters accepting their place in the balance of life, and Ginko somewhere in between always looking for an alternative.

His development as a character so far is this really sad shutdown of his role as this traveling bug super wizard that both helps people achieve their emotional goals and maintain balance in the ecosystem, because two episodes in a row (and also the dream episode and the zombie flower episode) he had to sacrifice the former for the latter, or accept that the people he's helping can also decide to compromise their emotional goals. He cant acknowledge that people can be happy in compromise or that compromise is more likely than achievement when he's in this situation where he's experiencing this constant lonely struggle, traveling from town to town looking for a permanent home.

I'm really loving this series so far!

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I think everything that Kill la Kill did in terms of transformations was already done in a way more convincing and subversive manner in Panty and Stocking already. Kill la Kill is just so... sleazy in comparison, since with Panty and Stocking that all started and ending during the transformation, they were otherwise oddly drawn characters that were not sexually attractive unless in their anime form.

 

I hope this doesn't come off too gross/crude/rude so I'll put this in spoiler so only those who want to read it will read it but

 

For one, Ryuko Matoi has zero romantic interest (other than final episode's brief half hearted joke hinting at possible lesbianism).  So many female characters are written to merely be a means to sexual end for male characters and yet here non of the main female roles are in it for romance.  The whole sexual tilting in the universe ends on Episode 4 and after that the entire Kill la Kill universe has nothing but fear and respect for their strength.

 

And sexual exploitation is all about turning a person into sexual object via 2 method-1) enchance their physical sexual attributes and 2)diminish every other attributes to nothingness.  There is no doubt that Kill la Kill did 1), but the show's subversion is about going 180 on the latter where these characters are, except for their looks, nothing about being sexually appealing.  Because 1) by itself is not a negative.  Being physically sexually attractive is awesome.  The problem with sexual exploitation is 1) is done with 2).  2) is the actual gross-ness of so many sexual exploitation because it is about reducing the person into an object.  If you have a nice body, being proud of it and showing it off to consenting adults is awesome thing.  But reducing person by taking away their dimensions?  That's just awful, with or without sexualizing them.

 

Ultimately, as a guy who gets accidental boners pretty easily, I got like, zero boners from watching Kill la Kill.  The characters are visually hitting the right 'notes' for sexual exploitation but their actions just overrode any of that with me so while in theory I can sympathize with the criticism that it's too sleazy, it rings hollow in my heart.

 

Ryuko Matoi is heroine of my heart and mind, not my genitals.

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Great post Gaizoku. That's very close to how I read the series as well.

 

When reading it as a full series as well, I think it should also be considered how the show treats nudity in the entire back half.

 

One small narrative thing that did bother me is that the blood-coagulant bullet, which occupied like half an episode, never paid off. I spent the entire finale wondering when it would come up again. I wonder if it's something that was planned but edited away, or if it had a different purpose I don't really understand.

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Thanks CLWheeljack.  About the bullet deal... The studio admitted they basically ditched any long term plan somewhere in the middle and wrote the rest of the series as they went along, which explains number of things (like why, IMO the quality dipped around the Osaka invasion arc) but also a pleasant surprise since IMO the series also ended up packing quite a punch from 16 and on although you can see the budget straining around the climax.

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I hope this doesn't come off too gross/crude/rude so I'll put this in spoiler so only those who want to read it will read it but

 

For one, Ryuko Matoi has zero romantic interest (other than final episode's brief half hearted joke hinting at possible lesbianism).  So many female characters are written to merely be a means to sexual end for male characters and yet here non of the main female roles are in it for romance.  The whole sexual tilting in the universe ends on Episode 4 and after that the entire Kill la Kill universe has nothing but fear and respect for their strength.

 

And sexual exploitation is all about turning a person into sexual object via 2 method-1) enchance their physical sexual attributes and 2)diminish every other attributes to nothingness.  There is no doubt that Kill la Kill did 1), but the show's subversion is about going 180 on the latter where these characters are, except for their looks, nothing about being sexually appealing.  Because 1) by itself is not a negative.  Being physically sexually attractive is awesome.  The problem with sexual exploitation is 1) is done with 2).  2) is the actual gross-ness of so many sexual exploitation because it is about reducing the person into an object.  If you have a nice body, being proud of it and showing it off to consenting adults is awesome thing.  But reducing person by taking away their dimensions?  That's just awful, with or without sexualizing them.

 

Ultimately, as a guy who gets accidental boners pretty easily, I got like, zero boners from watching Kill la Kill.  The characters are visually hitting the right 'notes' for sexual exploitation but their actions just overrode any of that with me so while in theory I can sympathize with the criticism that it's too sleazy, it rings hollow in my heart.

 

Ryuko Matoi is heroine of my heart and mind, not my genitals.

You say subversion but I've watched all of Imaishi's shows and there's nothing to show the director really grasps any of that outside of Panty and Stocking, which again, already did everything Kill la Kill while managing to not be sleazy. I don't know if you want to justify a hundred crotch shots and panties actively hugging a vagina as tight as they can in a close up as some kind of intellectual thing, that's your prerogative, but besides nice animation I don't see much difference between Kill la Kill and To Love Ru whatever. Also everyone is underage like in To Love Ru. Neato!

 

On a side note, I am actually photographing right now to sell on Ebay an early comic done by Imaishi in the 90s where there's a dude in armor and a woman who is only wearing a cape and they fight crime. She prances around naked the whole time and makes the dude shoot blood out of his nose and sometimes that solves their case (it appears, I can't read Japanese). Seems pretty par for the course for Imaishi now, a boy who will never grow up. Maybe all of these word balloons have people all saying, "Shouldn't you be ashamed?" "Sexuality is about freely showing your body!" or whatever half hazard dialogue to do the same as Kill la Kill and I don't think this comic would make me feel any different about the sleaze.

 

There's so many other ways Kill la Kill could have handled it's drawn, shot, and animated its hamfisted themes. Like the thing is, this show has all of the bombast of a B Movie and the execution as well, it's not some kind of high art and it never will be. It's not high art anime and that's fine, but you can't execute the mother daughter incest scene like a regular hentai and then say we need to give it the weight of like Grave of the Fireflies.

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Fair enough, 'subversion' isn't the correct term because that requires creator's intent.  The intention of the director is probably highly questionable as you pointed out.  It's also definitely not that sophisticated.  But I stand by the outcome, even if it's most likely not what that director intended at all.

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Well holy shit the new Dragon Ball movie, Battle of Gods, is actually pretty good!

Really funny stuff (especially if you're a fan of Dragon Ball, probably only if), especially with Vegeta. Hahah man Vegeta just, it's hilarious seeing him trying to keep someone else from getting mad. Thumbs up. Also nice that the antagonist wasn't really a bad guy so much as much a more powerful, and much empathetic version of Goku.

 

If you like DBZ I recommend it. U:

 

Here I am all stoked now for the next DBZ movie coming out NEXT MONTH!!!

 

Wow, glad to hear it went over well with you. I've been re-watching DBZ for awhile now with my daughter and yeah, the show gets a little bit worse each time  I watch it. It's still very nostalgic to watch but most of it is pretty boring with the exception of the Saiyan and Cell sagas, which I do still enjoy. I'll have to check these new movies out. Is Battle of the Gods any better than the original 13 DBZ movies? There were a few of those that I liked but most of them weren't that great if I recall.

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Dunno I've only watched three of those movies (the first three) and I watched them not long before I watched Battle of Gods. Dead Zone (the first one) was fun, mostly because they did a lot of fighting without Big Lasers and it was nice to go back to that. Battle of Gods has a lot of that, too.

 

I can say that there's none of that annoying long monologue nonsense you get when watching the series proper. Every piece of dialogue is a beat in the story, whether for plot or comedy. It actually serves a purpose beyond over-long exposition or boasting. It may be my favorite Dragon Ball Z content, but also a lot of it wouldn't be as good as it is if I didn't already have an affection for the previous content. It's just really good.

 

It's worth noting that none of the other movies are officially canon, if that's a thing that matters to you (it doesn't really, to me, but it's sorta fun to talk about), whereas Battle of Gods is completely canon. Also GT is kinda negated by Battle of Gods, not that most DB fans considered GT canon, anyway.

 

Oh man it's like I'm back in grade school again with my binder full of Dragon Ball and Sailor Moon and Tenchi Muyo printouts. So fun! I loved this movie a lot. It hit all the right notes.

 

Also, again, Vegeta, holy shit.

 

there is an unfortunate moment where bulma gets smacked by the antagonist which didn't really play out all that well and was handled in the typical man gonna defend woman now fashion

 

(also i meant to say "must less empathetic" not "much empathetic")

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Well that's cool that it is officially part of the canon. I like the idea of them just deciding to create some new shit decades after it originally aired. I think technically, Dead Zone was also canon because it was definitely referenced more than once in DBZ and seemed to take place right before the first episode of DBZ. And I agree that it was one of the best movies, although my favorite is probably the first Broly movie, which in my opinion was one of the best pieces of DBZ content ever put out. The rest of the movies are average at best. From what you're saying it sounds like I'll enjoy the latest movie. Sounds interesting.

 

I forgot about Tenchi Muyo. I watched the shit out of that when it used to play on Toonami but I don't recall exactly what was so appealing about it at the time. I never really understood that series though because there were like two or three versions that were completely divorced from each other and seemed to tell a different flavor of the same story. Was that show actually good or was it only good because I was 16 when I watched it?

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Dead Zone was referenced by filler (Garlic Jr. Saga) that didn't exist in the original manga. If you watch DBZ Kai, they remove the Garlic Jr. Saga entirely.

 

I tried to watch some Tenchi Muyo years after the fact and never finished any of it. I dunno.

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I just got to episode 12 of mushishi.

I really wish they didn't go into Ginko's origin story. I really liked the pockets of hints in previous episodes that slowly revealed his character, especially in the episode before this one where it revealed a lot about his inner emotional landscape and his profound loneliness (that episode, episode 11, was probably my favorite so far in terms of theatrics and weird concepts). Also stuff like what he was smoking and why were little surprises that kept me watching, and I was really disappointed to see a lot of it laid out like it was in this episode. Though what I did like was that it really put Ginko's actions and feelings in the last episode into perspective. They almost completely mirror each other, both with an apprentice Mushishi coming to grips with a new role in the world, with two masters accepting their place in the balance of life, and Ginko somewhere in between always looking for an alternative.His development as a character so far is this really sad shutdown of his role as this traveling bug super wizard that both helps people achieve their emotional goals and maintain balance in the ecosystem, because two episodes in a row (and also the dream episode and the zombie flower episode) he had to sacrifice the former for the latter, or accept that the people he's helping can also decide to compromise their emotional goals. He cant acknowledge that people can be happy in compromise or that compromise is more likely than achievement when he's in this situation where he's experiencing this constant lonely struggle, traveling from town to town looking for a permanent home.I'm really loving this series so far!

You have a intresting take on it so far, would be interested to know how you feel after episodes 13 & 14

There's so many other ways Kill la Kill could have handled it's drawn, shot, and animated its hamfisted themes. Like the thing is, this show has all of the bombast of a B Movie and the execution as well, it's not some kind of high art and it never will be. It's not high art anime and that's fine, but you can't execute the mother daughter incest scene like a regular hentai and then say we need to give it the weight of like Grave of the Fireflies.

I'm just gonna state from the get go I hate the term 'high art', but that's a huge topic of its own so let's that one sit for now.

So it hasn't told a heartbreakingly subtle tale, and what it has attempted to do has at times been carelessly executed in ways that actively undermine what could be it core positive messages.

But...

There's a important difference between KLK and Panty & Stocking, little/no effort is made in P&S to build relatable and likeable characters where as KLK for all its flaws is positively overflowing with them.

No one would ever want to be like Panty or Stocking, where as I think Ruyko & Satsuki however have enough charisma, charm, and sheer badassery to them that despite the flaws in their creation by the end of their arcs they are proper inspirational Heroines.

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