Sequelitis

[Lechimp]

If the Watchmen film sucks, then I will be?

On somewhat related note: does anyone know why we haven't seen a Hellboy game? Or is the creator jealously (sensibly?) guarding his IP in this regard?

(Okay, so there are not actually a lot of super-people in Watchmen...)

Actually, there is a hellboy game.

http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/hellboy-dogs-of-the-night

It probably sucks.

What's the Watchmen about? I heard it's pretty good and I can no longer read superhero comics after reading Sin City since Sin City is so much better than anything like X-Men or Spiderman and I now think that superhero comics are all the same (The Dark Knight Returns is the exception). Ever since I read Sin City, I've been looking for comics that aren't published by Marvel or DC.

[Chris]

I think I just say things where you want to instantly disagree with me.

No, I think it's just that you're often much more of a fucker than you need to be. Sometimes I agree with you though.

[lailoken]

No, I think it's just that you're often much more of a fucker than you need to be. Sometimes I agree with you though.

Amen!

[Chris]

What's the Watchmen about? I heard it's pretty good

Watchmen is sort of a deconstruction of the superhero myth. It's presented as a straight superhero story but really digs into the motives of superherodom, the psychology behind those who would become superheroes, possible ramifications, etc., etc. The plot itself is sort of a murder-mystery-unfolds-into-sweeping-global-conspiracy type of thing, but it's really secondary to the themes and (to me anyway) implicit arguments being presented. The issues are also interspersed with fabricated primary sources--newspaper clippings, letters, law enforcement dossiers, and so on.

It's really a fantastic work. Unfortunately, it seems to me that Alan Moore has recently started to rehash the whole Watchmen formula again and again, into stuff like Top 10, Promethea, and other stuff in his America's Best Comics line. Some of that stuff is a lot of fun, and there's still stuff to be said there, but none of it to me has the really powerful resonance of Watchmen, which certainly did it first and probably most comprehensively. The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is another example, but in such a different context (and largely drawing from a different source medium) it dosen't really bother me.

Anyway, Alan Moore is on the whole a really excellent writer. From Hell, especially with some prior knowledge of that era as well as maybe a re-read, is simply an astonishing accomplishment (as opposed to the film, which is merely astonishingly incompetent). V For Vendetta is great as well, and I look forward to its raping at the hands of the Wachowskis and some assistant director from Star Wars Episode II or something like that.

[Aussie Ben]

I'd just like to say how much I'm enjoying Lego Star Wars. Both the console and the GBA versions are great fun - I've borrowed someone else's copy - and I'll be picking up the Xbox version of the game as soon as I get the chance.

The GBA version is cool in its own right though. Everyone has a special move except Jar Jar - if you press the Special Move button for him, all he does is run around and panic. Ingenious.

[Trithemius]

It's really a fantastic work. Unfortunately, it seems to me that Alan Moore has recently started to rehash the whole Watchmen formula again and again, into stuff like Top 10, Promethea, and other stuff in his America's Best Comics line. Some of that stuff is a lot of fun, and there's still stuff to be said there, but none of it to me has the really powerful resonance of Watchmen, which certainly did it first and probably most comprehensively. The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen is another example, but in such a different context (and largely drawing from a different source medium) it dosen't really bother me.

I don't get the "rehash" feeling from Promethea or Top 10 (although, I do really enjoy them so perhaps I am biased this way) I am not sure he could have kept on doing Watchmen-style comics is all. Top 10 and Promethea are both different takes on super (trans?) humanity.

Admittedly it is a lot more "fun", but that could just be because it is a step away from the "dark times" of the 80s which Moore seems to have referred to a lot in his earlier work. As for "depth" or "power". I think that Promethea has a quite powerful little thing going on (though perhaps I am just too hung up on the rich hermetic symbolism?). Top 10 is more like a tv-show to me; sort of a cop-drama with super/science-heroes. I find the character design pretty neat though and am incredibly happy with the "ferro-americans" and their music for some reason.

The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (not the sad movie!) is kind of a nifty homage piece, with great character design (again, as usual) and trillions of literary references if you happen to be a fan of Victorian-type sci-fi/adventure fiction.

Anyway, Alan Moore is on the whole a really excellent writer. From Hell, especially with some prior knowledge of that era as well as maybe a re-read, is simply an astonishing accomplishment (as opposed to the film, which is merely astonishingly incompetent). V For Vendetta is great as well, and I look forward to its raping at the hands of the Wachowskis and some assistant director from Star Wars Episode II or something like that.

Anyone who saw, and somewhat enjoyed, the From Hell movie should read the comic. Anyone who say the movie and hated it should also read the comic. The art style can be a put-off, but its totally appropriate and brilliant.

I am utterly horrified to learn that the Wachowskis have got their hands on V For Vendetta. I think I must go away and cry for a time.

Anyways, before I do:

Even people who -hate- most comics should read Alan Moore's stuff, he is really quite impressive and interesting. A lot of his stuff is available through DC somehow (Vertigo or Wildstorm).

[Trithemius]

Actually, there is a hellboy game.

http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/hellboy-dogs-of-the-night

It probably sucks.

Wow! Underhyped I guess?

What's the Watchmen about? I heard it's pretty good and I can no longer read superhero comics after reading Sin City since Sin City is so much better than anything like X-Men or Spiderman and I now think that superhero comics are all the same (The Dark Knight Returns is the exception). Ever since I read Sin City, I've been looking for comics that aren't published by Marvel or DC.

Chris did a pretty good job on it, so I'll leave it at that.

You might want to try looking at Warren Ellis too - he's sometimes pretty damn good. Transmetropolitan is available in TPB-form from DC Vertigo, and Planetary is slowly coming out through the (now DC) Wildstorm imprint (last time I looked). Global Frequency is probably worth a look too, I really liked it. Ellis also churns out random three, and four, issue arcs too, pester your local comic book store types about him and they should hook you up; I believe Desolation Jones is out very soon, if not out now.

[Chris]

Transmetropolitan is absolutely great in my opinion. I gave Planetary a read and just couldn't get into it. I might give it another shot at some point, though; I certainly didn't think it was terrible, it just didn't really grab me for some reason.

[Duncan]

Transmetropolitan is absolutely great in my opinion. I gave Planetary a read and just couldn't get into it. I might give it another shot at some point, though; I certainly didn't think it was terrible, it just didn't really grab me for some reason.

Yeah, Warren Ellis is kind of hit-and-miss, I think. Global Frequency for example I completely failed to get into. Transmetropolitan is probably his best work despite (or because of? Hmm!) the protagonist being pretty much Hunter S. Thompson exactly.

Anyway, sequels.

[loonyboi]

Okay, I missed like a billion posts, so I'm way behind here...I'll just respond to random comments.

- X-Men Legends isn't the greatest game ever made, but it was fun. That's why I play games. To have fun. I like comics, I liked Diablo and BG: DA, I had fun with X-Men Legends. 'nuff said.

- A creator most certainly does not have to be involved to make a licensed product good. Oftentimes it can be worse. Goldeneye (64) is generally regarded as the best licensed game ever made...and do you know how much involvement anyone who worked on the film had? Nothing. Then look at the later bond games, where actual movie talent (both in terms of production and acting) were involved, and tell me which is better.

- No, I'm not sick of superheroes. I doubt I ever will be. I still buy every Superman comic that's published every week (yeah, I'm that guy). Watchmen is brilliant. V for Vendetta is better. TLoEG is quite good, as is Promethea, Miracleman, Rising Stars (oft underrated at that), Transmetropolitan and so on. Some of us still like silly stories about men in tights.

- I freely admit that licensed games don't have to suck, but most do. Riddick was a great game, license or no (it's better than the license it's based on).

[BigJKO]

Goldeneye (64) is generally regarded as the best licensed game ever made...

Goldeneye was crap. I can't, for the life of me, see what was so awesome about it.

[lailoken]

well there you go...

[loonyboi]

Goldeneye was crap. I can't, for the life of me, see what was so awesome about it.

When did you play it?

Because at the time, it was the first time anyone had successfully done a first person shooter on a console system. Ever.

Plus it had stealth elements, great multiplayer...it was a great game. It hasn't aged terribly well, but it was a great game at the time.

[Dingo Chavez]

Micky Mania on the Mega-CD (or Sega-CD) was an outstanding licensed game, in fact, it made the Mega-CD worth buying. I can hardly think of a game in its time that can compare to its production values, its ability to imitate the classic Disney movies, and the love, I can't forget the love.

The fact that a game is licensed doesn't mean it's gonna be bad, the problem is that they're usually made for avaricious purposes. If the developers care, and the publisher cares, it can be as good as any classic. For me, Micky Mania and Sam & Max are prime examples (also, Balder's Gate. Those damn D&D copy rights, I hate them so!).

Some of the finest games ever made are sequels. If it weren't for sequels we would never have had Zelda Ocarina of Time, A Link To The Past, and The Wind Waker. We would never had Mario Bros. 3 and Mario 64, Yoshi's Island, Monkey Island 2 and 3, Day of The Tentacle, Paper Mario 2, Final Fantasy VIII and IX, etc. When they start over doing it with needless sequels and spin-offs (like all those needless Mario and Final Fantasy spin-offs that they're making these days) the problem starts, and the Idle-Thumb, Grumpy Gamer discussions begin.

Activision is one of those companies that seem to only care about profits, Tony Hawk stoped being appealing to me when the "THUG" thing started, I never liked anything else that was published by them. So again, I'm not surprised by their decision to make sequels.

[BigJKO]

Because at the time, it was the first time anyone had successfully done a first person shooter on a console system. Ever.

Plus it had stealth elements, great multiplayer...it was a great game. It hasn't aged terribly well, but it was a great game at the time.

Sure, to each his own, I guess. I played it recently, and no matter how I look at it, it had crap framerate making it unplayable in multiplayer. Don't really see why they really needed to push every single pixel the N64 was capable of, ending with the most boring and bland multiplayer levels I've ever seen.

[Redwall]

I played it recently

And therein lies the problem.

[Jake]

I didn't like GoldenEye at the time and I still don't like to play it. I'm a little more tolerant of it now though. Back at the time I wondered why my friends (all of whom owned PCs) didn't just play multiplayer Quake or Q2 or whatever was out at the time. The inherent appeal of split screen on-the-couch multiplayer FPSing didn't really occur to me at the time. It's a different experience than playing online, or even LANning.

[Chris]

I love split screened FPSing a bajillion times more than internet FPSing, and this is from someone who didn't even actually own his own console until at least 8 years of PC gaming. Reading the horrible crap people type in chat in internet FPS games seriously disgusts me so much that all the enjoyment is sucked away for me. There are definitely some PC FPS games I like but unless it's gotten a lot better recently, the racism/sexism/homophobia/xenophobia/jackassery/arrogance/etc. is just too much for me to take. When you're sitting on the couch with your buddies, as long as everyone there is approximately of the same skill level, you're practically guaranteed a way less aggravating gaming experience.

[Trithemius]

Transmetropolitan is absolutely great in my opinion. I gave Planetary a read and just couldn't get into it. I might give it another shot at some point, though; I certainly didn't think it was terrible, it just didn't really grab me for some reason.

Some people I have tried to hook on Planetary find the "episodic" style a bit of a pain; personally I quite like it. Prevailing with the series is quite rewarding though, the characters become more interesting and stuff starts to cohere nicely.

If you are going to take another look at Planetary, I would grab Global Frequency too. It is also episodic, but it makes a bit more sense since each issue is quite different (and illustrated by different artists).

[Trithemius]

Yeah, Warren Ellis is kind of hit-and-miss, I think. Global Frequency for example I completely failed to get into. Transmetropolitan is probably his best work despite (or because of? Hmm!) the protagonist being pretty much Hunter S. Thompson exactly.

I thought Mek was a bit shite; I liked Switchblade Honey but felt it didn't really go anywhere (and it could have); I wanted (and still want) more of Ministry of Space; and Ocean has been pretty neat so far.

Anyway, sequels.

Oh yeah. I don't think sequels are neccessarily a bad thing. Sometimes, if a game is pretty damn good, I wouldn't turn down a tarted-up version of it; I'm pretty happy with Rome:Total War, after all, and expect that any sequel will continue to refine and improve. "Is the thing innovative" should not be confused with "Is the thing actually fun".

[BigJKO]

And therein lies the problem.

I don't think I'm less entitled to an opinion on a game just because I didn't play it at its prime.

Super Mario Bros. still rocks my socks, even though the first time I actually played through it all was a month ago. It's just that I find GoldenEye an unplayable mess that's not saved by the fact that it was the "latest shiznit" back then.

[Chris]

Some people I have tried to hook on Planetary find the "episodic" style a bit of a pain; personally I quite like it. Prevailing with the series is quite rewarding though, the characters become more interesting and stuff starts to cohere nicely.

If you are going to take another look at Planetary, I would grab Global Frequency too. It is also episodic, but it makes a bit more sense since each issue is quite different (and illustrated by different artists).

I'll give it another shot. I honestly don't remember what I found unappealing, whether it was the episodic nature or not, as it was some time ago. Anyway, I have a friend who has all the Planetary trades so it shouldn't be difficult to get ahold of.