Deus Ex Universe

[JonCole]

I know there's no way they could do it logically, but it's a shame that we won't see more of Malik in this.  Malik was probably my favourite NPC from HR and one of my favourite characters in recent memory.  She was fascinating and interesting and really likeable.  

 

Why exactly wouldn't they logically be able to do it? Certainly they're choosing a canon ending for DXHR to set the stage for this game, why wouldn't they choose a canon for Malik's fate?

[Thrik]

For the sake of clarity, Malik can die (or not) depending on whether or not you're able to fight off the assholes descending on her downed ship. If you save her, she'll be part of a later mission and survive the game.

[miffy495]

Yeah, I replayed that mission a whole bunch of times to get the proper result. I was not well specced for it, but damn did I want that to end the way I eventually made it.

[Henroid]

If you have the jump augmentation, an EMP grenade, and a shotgun, it's actually REALLY easy to do that part.

[mikemariano]

If you have the jump augmentation, an EMP grenade, and a shotgun, it's actually REALLY easy to do that part.

 

The former two helped me do it all non-lethal, but it was still tough!

[Thrik]

That was one of the most exciting parts of the game for me. I realised quite quickly that a life was probably going to be lost if I didn't act fast, so I went into this super-aggressive sequence of attacks that was completely unlike the stealth-heavy way I'd played the game previously. I was victorious on my first try, but it was a very tense and seat-of-my-pants moment.

[GavinTheAlmighty]

Why exactly wouldn't they logically be able to do it? Certainly they're choosing a canon ending for DXHR to set the stage for this game, why wouldn't they choose a canon for Malik's fate?

 

Well, to be clear, I certainly hope they're able to include her in the game.  Choosing a canon ending, given how the endings occurred, is something you can write off with retconning exposition in the first five minutes of a new game.  "It didn't actually happen like that; it happened like this."  

 

Retconning the death of a character, especially when you see her corpse later in the game in you fail to save her, feels like a bit too much of a leap.  

 

Maybe they could do the Mass Effect thing and let you make a choice right at the beginning!  

 

For me (bear in mind that I'm not very good at the game), the key to saving Malik was a basic set of weaponry (sniper rifle, combat rifle, EMP grenade, pistol - a fully upgraded pistol is super-lethal in this game) with the following augments:

- jump

- Icarus landing

- cloaking

- aiming stability

- reflex booster

- lots of energy cells

 

It's obviously totally possible to do it other ways, but that's what ended up being the best combination for me.

[Thrik]

That's the thing though, you can't really say that the ending you initially experienced is more canonical or should be considered the default. It never even occurred to me until I was talking to someone else about the game that things could go the way they did for you, and so if I'd never found out then I would have been wondering why they never brought back such a great character.

 

It's a good job Human Revolution didn't have more choices like that, because it would have made doing a cohesive-feeling sequel even harder. I guess that like you say, the Mass Effect approach would be the only sensible solution.

[Professor Video Games]

Retconning the death of a character, especially when you see her corpse later in the game in you fail to save her, feels like a bit too much of a leap. 

 

They do this exact thing with Paul Denton in Deus Ex 1->2. It's not that bad.

[GavinTheAlmighty]

They do this exact thing with Paul Denton in Deus Ex 1->2. It's not that bad.

 

Eh, I wasn't crazy about it, and I'd like to think that video game storytelling has come far enough that we can be more coherent.

[JonCole]

I think that having sequelized choice-based games in which the first entry wasn't originally intended to be sequelized almost always results in incoherent storytelling. I think there's some kind of reasonable doubt barrier you have to put up in these situations, otherwise you just can't enjoy things. If Malik was such a good character, I imagine that DX2's story will be better off with her in it if it's possible she could have lived. The story from 1->2 may make less sense to certain people, but if she makes the story of 2 measurably better as a result than this incongruity is acceptable for me.

 

It's kinda like TV shows that are wildly popular - you can tell me that you had brainstormed plot points and drawn out some grand arc, but if by season 3 pretty much every loose end from the past two seasons are wrapped up it turns out I'm not very convinced.

[Bjorn]

Also, Mass Effect's attempt ultimately didn't actually work very well.  Every significant choice that had multiple major outcomes just ended up as minor flavor text in the next game(s).  The cost of scripting those choices very deeply was just too high for the number of permutations. 

[eot]

I hope they bring back something along the lines of multitools and lockpick in this game. My biggest problem with HR was how every situation was reduced down to hacking. What made DX's multiple paths interesting is that they all tended to be expensive in terms of resources. Using four multitools and two emp grenades stung, so finding a key code on a datapad actually mattered. In HR it mostly boiled down to how you wanted to approach the enemy encounters, and even then you'd just retrace the other paths for XP.

[miffy495]

If you have the jump augmentation, an EMP grenade, and a shotgun, it's actually REALLY easy to do that part.

 

Did I mention that I also had a completely non-lethal, no alarms playthrough? That shit was hard.

[Bjorn]

Did I mention that I also had a completely non-lethal, no alarms playthrough? That shit was hard.

The only playthrough I finished was intended to be non-lethal/no alarms, but then there as the scene where the gangsters were forcibly surgically augmenting sex workers, and I executed every last one of them I could find. Then I went back to not killing people.

I did make it through saving Malik, but I don't remember that fight very well.

[Henroid]

The former two helped me do it all non-lethal, but it was still tough!

The game kinda helped me realize that as much fun as I have with non-lethal runs in games that can be stealthed, I actually enjoy the combat quite a bit.

[GavinTheAlmighty]

The only playthrough I finished was intended to be non-lethal/no alarms, but then there as the scene where the gangsters were forcibly surgically augmenting sex workers, and I executed every last one of them I could find. Then I went back to not killing people.

I did make it through saving Malik, but I don't remember that fight very well.

 

Was that the side mission "Rotten Business"?  In my playthrough, there were only three guards protecting her.  I didn't kill them, if only because I wanted more experience points from knocking them out.  But yeah, if anyone deserves it, it's them.

[Bjorn]

Was that the side mission "Rotten Business"?  In my playthrough, there were only three guards protecting her.  I didn't kill them, if only because I wanted more experience points from knocking them out.  But yeah, if anyone deserves it, it's them.

 

Yep, that's it.   And you had to neutralize their boss.  I don't remember the non-lethal way, but the lethal way was to throw him off his balcony.  He went flying in my game. 

[GavinTheAlmighty]

Yep, that's it.   And you had to neutralize their boss.  I don't remember the non-lethal way, but the lethal way was to throw him off his balcony.  He went flying in my game. 

 

Yep, I totally remember now.  The non-lethal way was to knock him out and plant drugs on him.  Maybe next time he goes for a little trip!

[Nappi]

25 min of gameplay with some spoilers (with warning):

 

Looks nice and they seem to give you enough tools and paths for stealth to be viable option still.

 

Is there any word on how the boss fights are handled? I'd imagine that they learned their lesson and gave you more ways to deal with those situations this time around.

[Griddlelol]

I really hope so, those bosses were infuriating for a stealth player. 

[eot]

That looks like more of Human Revolution except prettier. Having just this week finished a playthrough of the original Deus Ex I was hoping they'd bring it more in that direction and expand the RPG elements. Looks to me like they're doing the opposite though, the Crysis like gun customisation UI makes me think there might not even be a real inventory this time around. I mean, I like Human Revolution but it wasn't cut from the same cloth as the three classic immersive sims. Same thing with Dishonored. Kinda wish they'd gone with a new protagonist too, Jensen has no personality and that voice grates on me.

 

Earlier in this thread I complained about the writing and while there isn't much to go on this gameplay video gave me the same vibes as that CG trailer, which is that they're being too on the nose. In the first 30 seconds the narrator explains what is presumably the main theme of the game, and the next five minutes are spent listening to the characters doing the same while witnessing small scenes that lay it on even thicker. I'm not going to say it's bad, but that is not the kind of narrative content that's going to keep me interested for 20 hours.

[Henroid]

I feel like they took some inspiration from Dishonored as far as combat and movement tools goes.

[Nox Beta]

I'm interested to see how the devs 'incentivise' and balance combat approaches to be comparable to non-lethal ones (in terms of exp gain, at least).

 

When I played DX:HR, I wanted to go combat each time I found a cool new weapon (rocket launcher, pimped up assault rifle) but I knew sticking to non-lethal (e.g. max hacking and takedowns etc) would ultimately yield more exp. In the end, I don't think it made too much practical difference; if I had to guess, maybe I got like 2 or 2 more praxis points going non-lethal.

 

In saying that, I know I'm not beholden by the game to any one approach and I can always replay the game alternatively, but it would be a nice consideration nonetheless.