Offworld, an economic RTS from Soren Johnson

[Soren Johnson]

Game is up now: http://store.steampowered.com/app/271240

[TychoCelchuuu]

This has been bothering the crap out of me as well :/

Me too. With Early Access out the Mohawk Games YouTube channel has started posting some videos and I've been watching them with interest. The game looks really neat but I'm super reluctant to buy something from a company that Wardell is a co-founder of. I'm also not a massive fan of early access so at the very least I have an excuse to keep holding off from buying it.

[Gaizokubanou]

I don't have the time to go into it with links, but Wardell generally has a poor track record as a decent human being. Multiple employees (mostly female) have come forward to complain about a hostile and abusive work environment at Stardock, Wardell's defense of which invariably boils down to his right to treat his employees however he likes, as owner of the company, with the implication (if we're especially lucky) that the complainer was a terrible worker anyway and maybe deserved some mistreatment. It's stopped me from buying Stardock-developed products the last few years, but not yet Stardock-published products, although I don't feel great about any of it.

 

I googled his name and got few hits in regard to two cases with Alexandra Miseta.  Are there more?

[sclpls]

Man, maybe I am an idiot but I have been struggling just getting through the tutorial. I don't think the game really does much of a job of emphasizing the importance of claims, which are essentially a brutally hard cap on your supply. I've definitely screwed up the tutorial missions several times at this point due to managing claims poorly. Considering its importance I'm kind of shocked that it isn't displayed more prominently.

[clyde]

Man, maybe I am an idiot but I have been struggling just getting through the tutorial. I don't think the game really does much of a job of emphasizing the importance of claims, which are essentially a brutally hard cap on your supply. I've definitely screwed up the tutorial missions several times at this point due to managing claims poorly. Considering its importance I'm kind of shocked that it isn't displayed more prominently.

 

Game is hard. To be honest, I think this is just the nature of something that innovates as much as OffWorld does. I'm not suggesting that they shouldn't try to communicate successful strategies and priorities to new players, but there is a lot to think differently about. 

[sclpls]

That's fine, but I don't feel like the tutorial in its current state does a very good job of explaining anything. So far the tooltips have mostly been helpful, but trying to piece that all together to see the big picture is frustratingly difficult at the moment. As it currently stands, there is no way I feel comfortable just jumping into the multiplayer and playing strangers which is unfortunate for a game where it seems like multiplayer is the real heart of the game.

[tberton]

I would watch Soren run through the tutorials on YouTube. I haven't played the game yet, but that gave me a good idea of what's going on.

[clyde]

I would watch Soren run through the tutorials on YouTube. I haven't played the game yet, but that gave me a good idea of what's going on.

 

Thank you. I talk big, but after hours of play-time, I still don't know how to win. This may help.

[TychoCelchuuu]

Tutorial #5 by Soren does a good job of explaining how claims are the most important resource. I think he literally says "claims are the most important resource."

[sclpls]

I'm sure the youtube tutorials are helpful, but I also don't think that should count as an adequate remedy to player confusion. I'm trying to assess the game as it exists. The panel on the 3MA episode for Planetary Annihilation criticized the game for directing players to youtube videos to teach people how to play, and I think that's absolutely fair. OTC is unlike any other RTS really, so I think extra hand holding is totally warranted. I'm fine with the game not showing me how to move the camera around (relieved, even), but it is really frustrating when I made some mistake in a build order (I should have grabbed an aluminum resource instead of another iron, for example), and only realizing minutes later that that was a fatal flaw. I can see the potential fun that exists in the game, but in my initial jump into the game that fun feels closed off and inaccessible, and that's a bummer.

[tberton]

Oh, sorry, I wasn't trying to dismiss those concerns at all, I was just suggesting something that could help you right now. I'm sure the UI and tutorialization will improve as they expose the game to more players.

[sclpls]

Yeah, I'm sure it will as well! But I did want to post about my first unvarnished reaction since I figure that is hopefully useful feedback for Soren.

[Dewar]

Unfortunately, good tutorials are about the last thing to make it into an early access title.

[supasheep]

How demanding is the game? Do you think it's likely to work on my crappy laptop with Intel HD 3000 graphics?

[Ninety-Three]

 

That's fine, but I don't feel like the tutorial in its current state does a very good job of explaining anything. So far the tooltips have mostly been helpful, but trying to piece that all together to see the big picture is frustratingly difficult at the moment.

 

Ditto. The tutorials teach you all the game verbs, but after that they just dump you in a level with a handicap in your favour and say "Go". I haven't been losing badly, but I'm probably developing a ton of bad habits and wasting a lot of time as I figure out strategy for myself. A tutorial that teaches grand strategy instead of just moment-to-moment gameplay would be very welcome. For instance, how far abroad is it wise to build your mines to get access to better resources? That's one of those things I'm just having to develop a feel for (the game isn't explicit in giving the numbers for fuel consumption per distance, so I can't just do the math), and it would be great to have a tutorial tell me "This is about how far you want to go".

 

With how clear and simple most of the game's numbers are, it's kind of aggravating when they don't explain systems. What causes market prices to change, is it only when a player buys or sells that resource? How is fuel consumed? And why does it automatically buy water to keep colonists hydrated, but not to run my farms?

 

I don't know if I have it in me to watch hours of video tutorial to learn the game. I may put it down and wait for a better in-game tutorial.

[TychoCelchuuu]

"Hours" is kind of overstating things. I watched two of them, which added up to less than an hour, and although I don't own the game, I feel like I have a pretty good grasp of some basic strategies.

[BigJKO]

Yeah, I just watched the tutorial videos from their youtube channel, and it's a pretty thorough explanation of the various mechanics and strategies. You can just watch the second one to get a very basic overview, I think, in only 30 minutes.

 

Of course the tutorials themselves could be clearer, but I'm sure that's on some to-do list at Mohawk already before they make a final release..

[tberton]

Also, some of those things feel like strategic considerations that aren't really appropriate to a tutorial. The answer to "how far away should I build stuff?" is almost certainly "it depends."

[BigJKO]

I also imagine this is the kind of game that'll change a lot in early access, strategies will change and how buyouts, claims, etc work could change.. So you're definitely better off watching a video or reading up a bit to get a grip on it if you want to play the game now. And instead think of the "tutorials" as easy pre-defined scenarios like in Transport Tycoon or something, for now.

[dibs]

JKO and I are having a Offworld Date on Wednesday (18th) at 8 GMT/9 CET if anyone wants to join. Skill level will be super high, so bring your A game, probably.

[BigJKO]

Skill level will be super high, so bring your A game, probably.

 

Yes. I have played two tutorials and then lost disastrously in a Quick AI game, so I'm obviously a Master Offworld Economist.

[dibs]

Ha, i've done THREE tutorials!

[Ninety-Three]

Is this an all humans game? I could go for that, it'd be fun for trainwreck value alone. I don't want to shark anyone, so I should warn you, I've played all four tutorials, I'm basically world champion.

[Gwardinen]

Are you going to be doing it on Steam? I don't have the game but if you do it on Steam I'll spectate it just in case dibs' mad economic strategies provide answers for our current recession.

[BigJKO]

Is this an all humans game? I could go for that, it'd be fun for trainwreck value alone. I don't want to shark anyone, so I should warn you, I've played all four tutorials, I'm basically world champion.

Yeah, totes human only. None of those rubbish AI, the jerks!