Dark Souls 2 (Dark Souls successor (Demon's Souls successor))

[Bjorn]

For those of you who struggled with beating the super bullshit optional boss we've been talking about, watch someone take it on like a champ. 
 
 

On the pilgrims of the dark, once you are done with it, you can have some fun by

 

invading in the Dark. You can use Cracked Red Eyes down there to invade as a unique Abyss Phantom. You can both attack the PvE enemies and attack the host. So you can either be super useful and help someone through, or a complete dick and murder them in what is already one of the harder areas.

I did it for one evening and had a blast helping people through. I was going to murder people, but just couldn't do it. The first guy begged me not to attack him (just prostrating over and over again hiding in a corner). So I went and helped him. It's fun because people are NOT expecting anyone to show up, and when you do show up, they have no idea what to expect from you. The only sucky thing if you are helping people is that you have to either Black Crystal out or kill yourself. The only victory condition is killing the host.

[Sno]

Oh god, i would have shit myself if a player phantom showed up in there, i never would have expected that.

[Dewar]

I need to stop playing. I'm not enjoying it and i've done myself a mischief. This morning I spunked a dozen effigies entering the Dark covenant area to fight the optional boss. I only reached the boss twice, the other times I got my novice pyromancer pulverised by the dark guys or I rolled him into a crevice. I turned and punched my sofa in frustration and caught an improbably hard bit with the frame underneath. Wasn't too bad at the time, but now in considerable pain! It's only a game, it's only a game...

I got stuck in a rut fighting the optional boss to get to the Dark covenant guy. I ended up blowing 2-3 hours fighting through the Undead Purgatory over and over again to fight him, and then I didn't get anything worthwhile for it in the end.

On the plus side, I got the ember I needed and now I have a +10 Heide's Sword with a Lightning Imbue. When I get up to 50 faith, that thing will be godly. I hope I can get the warped sword up to be about as good, because I love the moveset on it when you dual wield it, but it doesn't keep the moveset when I put it in my offhand.

[Trip Hazard]

I've done a lot of swearing tonight, but it has all been worthwhile. After helping others take on the

Ruin Sentinels

as a phantom (all of us dying every time, I should point out) I decided to throw caution to the wind and have a go at soloing them. The first 4 or 5 times I embarrassed myself utterly, and was glad there was nobody there to see it. Then I got my eye in, and started to formulate a rudimentary strategy: hang out on the platform, smack them with a hammer, and try not to get flattened. I tried for about another hour, managing to consistently kill the first one, then getting ganked by the two that join in later. As unpleasant memories of the Four Kings started to cloud my thoughts, I told myself "one more time, then I'll give up for now". 

 

And wouldn't you know, "I did it!". It all came down to some awfully tight timing and a LOT of luck, but by god it felt good. 

 

After this I tried to explore the nearby Belfry, and got ganked some more. Ahhhh, Dark Souls, you know just how to toy with my emotions

[Dewar]

Those guys were the first boss that my friends and I really had problems with. I'm still not sure exactly how you're supposed to solo them. Maybe my character not having a shield was part of the problem for me.

[Sno]

The ruin sentinels were the first boss in DS2 that gave me real, real trouble, it was a very difficult fight. (Though I might have actually had more trouble with the swarm of hollowed soldiers that can aggro on you before that fight, at least until i figured out the back door that lets you skip all of that.)

At that point though, you should be able to start heading down some of the other spokes coming out of Majula though, it might be worth tackling some other stuff before coming back. I definitely got the impression that the ruin sentinels might have been meant as an intentional road block.

Also, i just started NG+. I am enjoying the remixed layouts that seem kind of purposefully engineered to prey on my newfound complacency.

[Trip Hazard]

I was beginning to think they could be an intentional roadblock, and was thinking of maybe checking out Heide's Tower. Good idea/bad idea?

 

Also, I was just reading on the RPS forum that certain cheaters are giving themselves a very high number of souls, then invading worlds to intentionally die and bestow those souls on the other player, which fucks with their soul memory and seemingly can make it very hard for them to do co-op. It defo seems like - as has already been mentioned in this thread - From dropped the ball not having a system which took into account both soul level and soul memory. 

[Sno]

Earlier in the thread i had mentioned hearing stories about that form of cheating, yeah. Just have to hope that the VAC implementation can catch it, i guess. It doesn't sound like it's extremely wide spread, at the least.

Also, Heide's Tower seems to be meant as a pretty early game area, so you'll probably stomp through it. I think i did the same thing, got to Lost Bastille early on and beat my head against it until i got through, and then started exploring the other paths out of Majula, only to find that i probably should have looked into them earlier on.

[Trip Hazard]

Just spent about an hour farming chunks as a Bellbro, and now I feel really dirty. Honestly, the amount of posturing those guys do when they gank some poor sod who was just looking around the place. I feel slightly better about myself because I didn't do that, but only very slightly.

[Dewar]

FuryBoy86, on 07 May 2014 - 16:13, said:

Just spent about an hour farming chunks as a Bellbro, and now I feel really dirty. Honestly, the amount of posturing those guys do when they gank some poor sod who was just looking around the place. I feel slightly better about myself because I didn't do that, but only very slightly.

I enjoy throwing down my summon sign just inside the door and dropping a lightning bolt on Bellbros who have a 2 to 1 advantage and think they can play around with their prey. Doing that last night, I got invaded by a phantom the moment I stepped through the door, before I even was able to put down a sign. I stay resolutely in the opening foyer, not wanting to head up and having to fight the dwarves as well as the phantom. He keeps running half way down the stairs, waving, then heading back up. Eventually another phantom summons in, then they both start hanging at the top of the stairs. I still refuse to follow them. Eventually they get bored, cast homing soul arrow, and try to drop on me through the hole in the celing. I only fall for that trick once. I dodge both the attacks and the soul arrows, shread one with my sword, and the other runs away in terror instead of finishing me off and gives me time to heal.

The best part was when that guy came back, I made a stupid mistake and left myself open to a full combo, and he only did 3/4 of my life in damage before draining his stamina dry and being unable to roll (I'm not all that armored up either.) I rammed my +10 Lightning Heide Sword down his throat.

[Dewar]

I was beginning to think they could be an intentional roadblock, and was thinking of maybe checking out Heide's Tower. Good idea/bad idea?

 

Also, I was just reading on the RPS forum that certain cheaters are giving themselves a very high number of souls, then invading worlds to intentionally die and bestow those souls on the other player, which fucks with their soul memory and seemingly can make it very hard for them to do co-op. It defo seems like - as has already been mentioned in this thread - From dropped the ball not having a system which took into account both soul level and soul memory.

I got stuck about where you were and checked out Heide's Tower. I had a devil of a time at first, but then I realized what the enemies in the area were trying to teach me, and I was able to fight them pretty effectively at that level. The optional boss in that area is a real killer though.

[eot]

Figured I'd reply to this here instead of the DkS thread.

Drangleic is pretty intentionally supposed to be an entire country though, while Lordran was...a city-state?  Or a kind of Mt. Olympus place?  It was all condensed right there.  Which doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense, but made for some great design in some areas.

I like that they went for that, because as you said it makes for some great areas. Gorgeous view indeed. The problem I have is that they mostly stuck to the no loading screen philosophy of the first game. It made sense there, because the world was so dense. In this game it doesn't make any sense. Walking through a 50m long tunnel that's actually 50km actually damages my sense of place. I would've preferred some means of in world travel. Since you warp everywhere it's not even a problem of having to watch a cutscene each time. Also, if you're going to have a game set in a massive kingdom, maybe have a proper map or something. I just wish I had a sense of where one location was in relation to another.

[Sno]

So if you use the red sign soapstone in the candle-filled room near the arena for the looking glass knight boss fight, there's a chance the looking glass knight in another world will summon you to assist it against whoever is fighting it.

I will totally have to try that.

[Bjorn]

I like that they went for that, because as you said it makes for some great areas. Gorgeous view indeed. The problem I have is that they mostly stuck to the no loading screen philosophy of the first game. It made sense there, because the world was so dense. In this game it doesn't make any sense. Walking through a 50m long tunnel that's actually 50km actually damages my sense of place. I would've preferred some means of in world travel. Since you warp everywhere it's not even a problem of having to watch a cutscene each time. Also, if you're going to have a game set in a massive kingdom, maybe have a proper map or something. I just wish I had a sense of where one location was in relation to another.

 

Yeah, I like that they went for a different type of world, but ultimately I agree with you that it could have been built/designed even better.  DeS was supposed to take place over a pretty good sized land as well, which is why you had portals in the Nexus to take you to all those places.  They were trying to split the difference between DeS and DS1, and it works in some ways, not so much in others. 

 

 

So if you use the red sign soapstone in the candle-filled room near the arena for the looking glass knight boss fight, there's a chance the looking glass knight in another world will summon you to assist it against whoever is fighting it.

I will totally have to try that.

 

I've tried a handful of times, but haven't been summoned.  I've seen people claiming that when fighting the LGK on NG, PC players are never summoned.  It only happens on NG+ and beyond.  But you can be summoned into NG+ even if you are only on NG.  I don't know how accurate any of that is.  If it is accurate, that's probably why I didn't get summoned, not enough people in NG+ there yet.

 

So, I'm pretty sure that Santier's Spear is fucking broken and doing more damage than it's numbers say it should.  That or other Twinblades are broken and not doing enough damage.  After doing some testing against it and two other Twinblades tonight, it was able to consistently out damage both of them, even though it has lower AR values (tested with physical only damage and with infused split damage).  I did a Reddit post about it to see if anyone could confirm, but so far it hasn't got a lot of traction.  If you're curious about some of the numbers and specifics, you can check it out. 

[Bjorn]

Rapid durability loss seems to be tied to framerate on the PC.  Loss when hitting a dead body, phantom or "fading" body can as much as triple depending on the weapon at 60FPS vs 30FPS.

[Trip Hazard]

That's just bizarre. Why on earth...? I hope From are issuing a fix for this soon, because I'm already getting sick and tired of having my preferred weapons breaking down on me between bonfires.

[coaxmetal]

So if you use the red sign soapstone in the candle-filled room near the arena for the looking glass knight boss fight, there's a chance the looking glass knight in another world will summon you to assist it against whoever is fighting it.

I will totally have to try that.

 

Bringing back one of the coolest parts of Demon's Souls (though in that case, the player WAS the boss, not just a helper). Apparently it is far more common to be summoned for this in NG+, but people have said that it is still possible in NG.

 

 

Also, what is this durability bug? Is it just that things break more quickly than expected? Been out of the loop here for a bit and haven't heard about it.

[Golden Calf]

I feel like I only ever post to shit on this game, but I actually like it I promise!

 

I think the durability system is so stupid. I do not understand what it's supposed to be accomplishing. SO MANY TIMES I've been doing really well in an area, killing mobs without using many of my healing items/spells, so that I would like to keep going, when it turns out my weapon is about to break. I don't want to have a bunch of upgraded weapons when I like the one I already have. And how are metal weapons so goddamn fragile while still being functional?

 

All it ever does it interrupt my flow. I don't want to go sit at a bonfire, because I don't want to re-clear all this goddamn trash! So I usually end up switching to a shitty unupgraded weapon and putting down a small soapstone sign to be a mediocre helper, because durability is restored upon a successful summon. Sometimes this goes quickly. Sometimes, the summoner is a fucking moron and I can't be that helpful, so I have to go put the sign down again. Cool.

[Bjorn]

Also, what is this durability bug? Is it just that things break more quickly than expected? Been out of the loop here for a bit and haven't heard about it.

 

Durability on the PC is quite a bit worse than on consoles.  Certain weapons in particular just get shredded (Halberds and Twinblades being the worst).  Using a Stone Twinblade, I could barely go through 10 of the easiest enemies without it breaking, and it has 120 durability.

 

 

I feel like I only ever post to shit on this game, but I actually like it I promise!

 

I think the durability system is so stupid. I do not understand what it's supposed to be accomplishing. SO MANY TIMES I've been doing really well in an area, killing mobs without using many of my healing items/spells, so that I would like to keep going, when it turns out my weapon is about to break. I don't want to have a bunch of upgraded weapons when I like the one I already have. And how are metal weapons so goddamn fragile while still being functional?

 

All it ever does it interrupt my flow. I don't want to go sit at a bonfire, because I don't want to re-clear all this goddamn trash! So I usually end up switching to a shitty unupgraded weapon and putting down a small soapstone sign to be a mediocre helper, because durability is restored upon a successful summon. Sometimes this goes quickly. Sometimes, the summoner is a fucking moron and I can't be that helpful, so I have to go put the sign down again. Cool.

 

I liked it on the PS3, when it was working correctly.  Upgrade materials aren't as rare as they seem at first, and it encourages you to mix up weapons and use a couple of them.  There's also the Repair spell, which I spiced down and used extensively when I was running a 20 durability Malformed Skull.  Durability was really meaningless in DS1 except for weapons with special attacks.  Now it actually has a purpose. 

[coaxmetal]

Durability systems in games exist explicitly to be inconvenient, as far as I can tell. Generally, I don't approve of them. In bethesda games, like elder scrolls or (recent, for babies) fallout, they are simply an annoying inconvenience that don't add anything to the experience, other than potentially a currency sink. I think in Dark Souls, the inconvenience fits thematically very well, so there is value there. Additially, they tend to use to as fuel for special weapon attacks that some weapons possess. In this game they significantly changed out durability worked. Everything breaks faster, but now simply resting at a bonfire repairs. This seems like it intentionally encourages you to rest at a bonfire, it extends the limited spell casts to weapons as well. 

 

Now whether you like that is a different story, but I certainly thing there is intention behind it and that it contributes to the game experience.

[Golden Calf]

 liked it on the PS3, when it was working correctly.  Upgrade materials aren't as rare as they seem at first, and it encourages you to mix up weapons and use a couple of them.  There's also the Repair spell, which I spiced down and used extensively when I was running a 20 durability Malformed Skull.  Durability was really meaningless in DS1 except for weapons with special attacks.  Now it actually has a purpose. 

 

But they already have a much better way of encouraging switching between weapons - the encounter design. Narrow corridors vs wide-open areas vs. places with good opportunities for ranged battle already make me vary my tactics and switch between weapons and magic and ranged stuff. What I'm actually doing to combat the durability part is buy another of the same weapon I already use and begin upgrading it so I can have an identical copy.

 

Durability systems in games exist explicitly to be inconvenient, as far as I can tell. Generally, I don't approve of them. In bethesda games, like elder scrolls or (recent, for babies) fallout, they are simply an annoying inconvenience that don't add anything to the experience, other than potentially a currency sink. I think in Dark Souls, the inconvenience fits thematically very well, so there is value there. Additially, they tend to use to as fuel for special weapon attacks that some weapons possess. In this game they significantly changed out durability worked. Everything breaks faster, but now simply resting at a bonfire repairs. This seems like it intentionally encourages you to rest at a bonfire, it extends the limited spell casts to weapons as well.

 

But why? What is the value of forcing the player to rest at the bonfire all the time (more often than the other systems already do)? If I'm going to do that already, then I don't need extra encouragement. But when I technically don't need to rest (still have plenty flasks and spell uses) and would like to keep going, it forces me to interrupt what I'm doing. I claim that this is a bad design choice. I can definitely see wanting to limit weapon special attacks to be in line with spell uses. That seems like a great idea. I would be perfectly happy if weapons degraded much more slowly and special attacks chewed through durability much faster.

[coaxmetal]

But why? What is the value of forcing the player to rest at the bonfire all the time (more often than the other systems already do)? If I'm going to do that already, then I don't need extra encouragement. But when I technically don't need to rest (still have plenty flasks and spell uses) and would like to keep going, it forces me to interrupt what I'm doing. I claim that this is a bad design choice. I can definitely see wanting to limit weapon special attacks to be in line with spell uses. That seems like a great idea. I would be perfectly happy if weapons degraded much more slowly and special attacks chewed through durability much faster.

 

I think the risk of a weapon breaking is in line with the general tone and intent of the game. It isn't something random, you can watch it, but it contributes to the oppressive nature of the game. I don't mind it myself, and I think there is intent behind it and it fits. Couldn't say whether I would miss it if it were gone though.

[Bjorn]

Maybe we just fundamentally disagree here.  Weapon breakage makes complete sense to me in a Souls game.  Is the new system perfect?  No (particularly not as it is bugged), but I do think it adds a good mechanic to the game to have to worry about equipment degradation.  Breaking your weapon on a boss is a seriously butt clenching moment if you don't have a backup loaded into a quickslot and you have to find a moment to rapidly switch out.  Without the faster degredation, this would almost never happen, and it would be the loss of a unique experience.  And the current system is better than having an unknown random chance for a weapon to break.  Also, as you approach the end game and get some of the nicer rings, several of them are fragile as glass.  Getting smacked around too much or hit with any acid/corrosive attack can shatter them without warning.  Which can be crippling when you are near the 70 percent equip load break point and you are suddenly fat rolling. 

[TheLastBaron]

There are certain weapons like Ricard's Rapier that are balanced by the fact that they break really really fast, and there's the spear that's indestructible so durability adds a fair amount to the game, for me at least.

[eot]

Question about endgame things

I just killed Ancient Dragon, I've been in all the memories and I've killed the Throne of Want duo too. Do I just have: final boss, Vendrick and Darklurker left?