Netrunner!

[clyde]

With Nisei MK II, can the corp remove the hosted agenda counter to end the run, after all the subroutines of the last piece are broken but before the agenda is accessed?

[Nelsormensch]

With Nisei MK II, can the corp remove the hosted agenda counter to end the run, after all the subroutines of the last piece are broken but before the agenda is accessed?

 

Yup. Technically after all ICE has been dealt with, the runner still has on opportunity to jack out or keep going and access cards. After that, there's one more chance for the corp to use paid abilities and that's the last time the Nisei counter can be used.

 

FFG has an expanded run timing diagram in their FAQ (http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/android-netrunner/support/FAQ/Android-Netrunner%20FAQ.pdf) and step 4.3 is the last chance to use a scored Nisei.

[Nelsormensch]

Y'all may want to take a gander over here if you haven't, but quite simply, there's a new Idle Thumbs Network podcast hosted by me and my friend Jesse and it's all about Netrunner!

 

https://www.idlethumbs.net/forums/topic/8959-a-new-idle-thumbs-network-podcast-terminal7/

[tberton]

Awesome, Nels, I look forward to listening to it!

[clyde]

We are cleaning and I've decided to throw the Netrunner box away. At the same time, I'm looking around the house for a box that can hold the cards and the tokens and still fit in my book-bag.

It's such a nice box. Why would they make the box so nice? It makes it harder to throw away.

[sclpls]

We are cleaning and I've decided to throw the Netrunner box away. At the same time, I'm looking around the house for a box that can hold the cards and the tokens and still fit in my book-bag.

It's such a nice box. Why would they make the box so nice? It makes it harder to throw away.

 

The size of boxes for card games being the same as a typical board game drives me nuts.

[clyde]

I just won a really great game. The last points I scored were from accessing The Future Perfect with some Legwork. We both bid 2 credits. It was awesome. 

 

[casktapper]

Nice!

 

I just got back from a Honor & Profit tournament here in Toronto.  Only Criminal or Jinteki decks.  Special rule against certain card pairs (Account Siphon/Same Old Thing and Datasucker/Desperado - you can run as many copies of 1 card in the pair, but that means you can't put any copies of the other)

 

I ended up going 5-5, though my runner deck only managed 1 victory.  One of the losses was because of a misunderstanding around the timing between Account SIphon and Dedicated Response Team.  Still, it was a fun day.

[clyde]

Why would Datasucker and Desperado be regulated? They don't seem overly powerful. Am I not understanding something about them?

[casktapper]

It's basically the free bounce on archives repeatedly for a credit and one or more datasucker tokens.  It was rampant in the local meta.  Of course, H&P creates a lot of new disincentives for running archives, even if it there is no ice protecting it.  I think the hope was to encourage some different criminal decks than were already common in the meta.  Which was relatively effective.

[BusbyBerkeley]

Hey!

 

I just played my maybe fourth or fifth game tonight and am maybe wanting to start getting into the deckbuilding side of things. This is my first game like this that I really like, what are some good general tips for decks? I know you want to keep it lean, but I feel like a babe in the woods here.

 

Also had my first corp win when the runner face checked into a snare with only two cards in his grip. He was up 4-0 in agendas and it was wholly unsatisfying. 

 

Also which packs have the good shit in them? I keep hearing Jackson Howard is a necessity, are there any other cards I should know about that are real cool, or do I just want to buy stuff for factions I like or do I just want to eventually end up with everything? I only play casually with my buddies trying to get them into it right now. 

[clyde]

The data-packs have a third the amount of cards, but include some for every corp and runner. The larger expansions give you a ton of cards for one runner faction and one corp (but multiple identities for each).

I like the data-packs because I want to get more cards for every faction, but Capt. Hastings likes the larger expansions because they make you feel like you got a lot more cards. We play casually too, our decks are based on cards we think will be fun to use. I will say that it wasn't until we got Honor & Profit that I felt that I was putting only cards I wanted to draw into my deck. That makes a big difference to me. Before Honor & Profit, we had the cards from the original box, also the "Things to come" and "Mala Tempora" data-packs.

[Capt. Hastings]

They don't make you feel like you get more cards, you get more cards. In the data pack you get 60 cards, but they're in triplicate so you get 20 really. In the expansion you get 165 cards, but really 55 cause they're again in triplicate. That's a lot more cards. plus a ton of new identities.

[BusbyBerkeley]

Awesome. Yeah with the base set that I have I feel like I'm making tons of concessions when looking at cards to add to a deck. Nice to hear that maybe goes away after only a few packs.

[Nelsormensch]

Also which packs have the good shit in them? I keep hearing Jackson Howard is a necessity, are there any other cards I should know about that are real cool, or do I just want to buy stuff for factions I like or do I just want to eventually end up with everything? I only play casually with my buddies trying to get them into it right now. 

 

This guide is really useful, I think. It hasn't been updated to include the last three expansions but it's good at pointing you at what you might want to get sooner depending on which faction you play.

[clyde]

Yesterday Capt. Hastings beat me 11-0 in two turns. First turn she ran on my unprotected R&D (2 points), ran on R&D again (trashing my mining asset), ran on R&D the third time (2 points). On the second turn she installed Sneakdoor Beta, used Legwork and grabbed three agendas from my hand (7 points). It was brutal.

[ Once I typed this out I realized that you can't use Legwork and Sneakdoor Beta simultaneously, doh. We are still learning.]

Also, it wasn't until recently that we started caring about traces and tags. We had viewed them as a waste of time for the corporation. But I started playing NBN to get a better feel of it and now we see what's up. It's interesting to me because now I see traces and tags as necessary for fully balancing the game. Now I view it as a way for corporations to leverage their savings without necessarily spending it. And it also forces the runner to put some fat into their deck.

[tberton]

A lot of the value of tags comes down to Runner deckbuilding decisions. If the Runner uses a lot of valuable resources (Kati Jones, Professional Contacts, Mr. Li, etc.) then they are going to want to get rid of their tags, making tagging ice like Shadow, Hunter and Data Raven a pretty good deal for the Corp. However, some Runners run few resources or ones that aren't valuable enough to be worth trashing, in which case tags become less valuable.

 

However, if you really want to know the power of tags, start playing as or against Weyland. The first time they burn down your house because you let a tag stick you'll understand the benefit of not letting the Corp know where you live.

[clyde]

Do you think Scorched Earth is over-powered? We've been trying to figure out if knowing that there could be a Scorched Earth in any deck makes the game better or worse.

[tberton]

No, I don't think it's overpowered, for several reasons. First, it's four influence, making it fairly easy to tell if your opponent is running it: if they're Weyland, they are running it; if they are anybody else, look for tagging ice and count their influence. Second, it requires a tag and tagging the runner on the Corp's turn is really hard: the most common method is SEA Source, so if the Runner only makes successful runs when they've got more money than the corp, they are good. Third, there are several soft counters to it: Imp, Keyhole or Demolition Run to trash it; Vamp, Account Siphon or various ways to make ice more expensive in order to keep them poor; Decoy or New Angeles City Hall to avoid tags. Finally, Plascrete Carapace is a hard counter to the card: even one Plascrete makes it much, much harder for the Corp to Scorch you.

[clyde]

These are great pointers. I never even considered that I could count the opponent's influence.

[tberton]

These are great pointers. I never even considered that I could count the opponent's influence.

 

In a competitive situation, where you're playing against somebody whose deck you're unfamiliar with, it's really important. You want to figure out as quickly as possible what type of deck you're up against. It's less important in casual scenarios, since there you are more likely to know a lot of your opponent's deck.

[BusbyBerkeley]

Played another scrub tier game with my buddy using my starter decks last night, and I got trashed as corp. I scored an Advanced Beta Test on turn two, which caused me to trash the top cards of R&D. Next turn he runs on archives and grabs a two point agenda. Dang. Then he uses the program that allows archives runs to count as HQ runs and grabs a 3 pointer out of my hand. Dang. I have no ice and am low on cash so I use melange mining corp on my next turn and then he gets into my hq again and grabs another two pointer, winning the game 7-2. Dang.

 

I can see the hooks digging in though. Every time we hang out lately we'll play a game. I think I'll haul over my core set next time and we can try our hand at deckbuilding.

 

I think it helps that he realizes how quickly the game plays and how engaging it is. There is no downtime compared to some other boardgames I have. And the first time I showed him and my other friend how to play it took them OVER TWO HOURS. Christ.

[clyde]

And I love how as soon as it starts feeling stale, you can switch sides and play a completely different game.

[clyde]

Just to be sure, when Theophilius Backbiter is installed, your maximum hand-size fluctuates with your credit-pool over time correct? I just played this card with an anarchy deck and it was massive amounts of fun. I took a total of four braindamage. Then I spent all my credits on a run. At the end of my turn, Capt. Hastings said "Aren't you dead?" Pointing out that with only one credit and four pieces of brain-damage, my maximum hand-size was -3. I threw my cards down and hung my head in shame. Then she goes, "Just trash Backbiter before your turn ends." That turned my frown upside-down. I won that game.

[tberton]

Yeah, you were dead in that situation because you had a negative handize. However, Hastings was wrong: you cannot just trash resources willy nilly. The only way for resources to get trashed is through the Corp trashing it when you're tagged, a card effect (like Elizabeth Mills on the Corp side or Aesop's Pawnshop) or an effect on the resource itself (like the trash ability on Decoy, Fall Guy or Sacrificial Construct). Otherwise, you are stuck with that resource staying installed. That's why any deck that has Wyldside needs Aesop's Pawnshop in it.

As a side note, I really hope they release another Pawnshop-like card in the Lunar Cycle.