Netrunner!

[Nelsormensch]

Why would the corp have to rez it again on the same run? Doesn't it stay?

 

Cell Portal's subroutine is, "The Runner approaches the outermost piece of ice protecting the attacked server. Derez Cell Portal."

 

Generally yes, ICE stay rezzed when their subroutines fire (or if they're broken or whatever). Cell Portal is an exception to this, since it explicitly says it should be derezzed after its subroutine triggers.

 

But it's important to note that's only when the subroutine goes off. If the runner breaks it, then Cell Portal will stay rezzed (and pay to break a 7 str Code Gate is no meager feat).

[clyde]

ohhhhhh.

[clyde]

With the Battering Ram program, it says that you can spend 2 credits to break up to two barrier subroutines. If the runner encounters two Walls of Static on a run, do they have to pay 4 credits to use that ability twice? Or can they just pay it once to break a total of two barrier subroutines on two Walls of Static?

[Nelsormensch]

With the Battering Ram program, it says that you can spend 2 credits to break up to two barrier subroutines. If the runner encounters two Walls of Static on a run, do they have to pay 4 credits to use that ability twice? Or can they just pay it once to break a total of two barrier subroutines on two Walls of Static?

 

The runner is only encountering a single piece of ICE at a time, so things don't carry forward like that unless it explicitly says they do.

 

Battering Ram encountering Wall of Static has to pay 1 credit to increase its Strength to 3 and then 2 to break up to two subroutines. The fact that Wall of Static only has one is irrelevant. Then if there's another Wall of Static behind it, they have to do the same thing again (except the +1 Strength stays since it explicitly remains until the end of the run), paying 2 more credits to break Wall of Static's subroutine.

 

That's basically the downside of Battering Ram (and that it takes 2 MU). It's got good base Strength, isn't that expensive for what it does, but you've gotta pay 2 credits for each subroutine broken and most barrier ICE only have the one (End the Run, the majority of the time).

[TheLastBaron]

I'm starting to get into this, I was watching the stream for the most recent Pro Tour for Magic the Gathering which is this weekend and really felt like playing a card game so I downloaded OCTGN and Netrunner.  So far I suck.

[tberton]

ONE OF US! ONE OF US!

[Nelsormensch]

ONE OF US! ONE OF US!

 

You beat me to it

[TheLastBaron]

What would be the best way to internalize everything with this game?  Basically my approach thus far has been to watch a couple tutorial videos on the game and then a couple of videos of games being played to build a foundation of knowledge on how the game actually works and then just sit down and go through all the cards on OCTGN and just read them all.

[tberton]

I never played on OCTGN, but I imagine that would be a bad way to learn the game. I think the best way to learn it is to buy a physical copy and play it with a friend, especially since OCTGN has all currently released cards (and even some unreleased ones), which is probably overwhelming. Starting with the Core Set would be much more approachable.

[Nelsormensch]

Yeah, I'd say stick to the core first, ideally in the flesh. There are sites like Meteor and Netrunner DB where you can see all the cards at once, so if you just want to check out the core stuff there, that's an option too, since you can set it to filter out the other sets. But yeah, I'd also heartily suggest getting it physically to start and going to Octgn from there.

[clyde]

I never played on OCTGN, but I imagine that would be a bad way to learn the game. I think the best way to learn it is to buy a physical copy and play it with a friend, especially since OCTGN has all currently released cards (and even some unreleased ones), which is probably overwhelming. Starting with the Core Set would be much more approachable.

This worked for me. The hardest part was the first few games, just not being sure if we were remembering all the rules (like that corporations have to pay an extra credit for every piece of ICE already installed on a server). It is a lot to remember at first, but the rulebook has a section that breaks down the steps of a run (which we looked at a lot during the first few games). I found some of the terms to be a bit confusing at first such as "approaching" versus "encountering"; "accessing" versus "revealing".

If you can find someone who is interested in learning it with you, I recommend that method. The debate about whether ot not Mega-Corps or Runners are advantaged can be really fun as you learn the game and discover useful strategies.

[TheLastBaron]

Yeah, I'd say stick to the core first, ideally in the flesh. There are sites like Meteor and Netrunner DB where you can see all the cards at once, so if you just want to check out the core stuff there, that's an option too, since you can set it to filter out the other sets. But yeah, I'd also heartily suggest getting it physically to start and going to Octgn from there.

 

Yeah I was currently just using octgn to look at the cards, btu those sites are way better, thanks!

[tberton]

This blog series on BGG goes through pros and cons for every card in the Core Set (and a couple from the first Data Pack, What Lies Ahead). It's very good at teaching you basic strategy.

[Nelsormensch]

Yeah I was currently just using octgn to look at the cards, btu those sites are way better, thanks!

 

In general, I'd say don't use Octgn for anything unless you absolutely have to So card searching, deckbuilding, etc., it's all better on sites/services that aren't Octgn!

[GoTeamVenture]

I'm going to one of the Plugged-In Tour events in Wisconsin this weekend. The event reports on the FFG website and Board Game Geek make these events sound like a lot of fun.

 

I don't expect to do well, but it will be nice to play against new people. I go to a game store that has a weekly LCG night, but it's usually just myself and one other person there for Netrunner. I usually end up spending more time thinking of decks/building decks than actually playing the game.

 

I haven't been able to play my current decks much in their current builds. I think I am going to play an Anarch (Noise) Darwin/Virus deck and an NBN (Making News) fast advance deck that uses tags for things like Closed Accounts and resource destruction to slow the runner down.

[GoTeamVenture]

I was also trying to build a Jinteki deck to play this weekend. A played a couple versions of it within the last month, but I haven't been able to create a build I'm happy with. My goal was to make it expensive or dangerous for the runner to make runs rather than catch them in a lot of traps. For traps I was just using Snares and sometimes a Cerebral Overwrite.

 

I think I'm most unsure about what to use for economy and ice (other than a few standards like Neural Katana, Archer, the new cheap Jintei barrier). Do Jinteki players here use Celebrity Gift? Celebrity Gift seems like it would be better if a deck had more traps so you could do things like show the runner a combination of agendas and traps. Which ice do you prefer in a Jinteki deck?

[tberton]

Celebrity Gift is really good, but you have to use it carefully and strategically. It works best with Jackson Howard so you can draw up. Are you playing the first ID or the second? It sounds like you're not trying to kill the Runner, in which case you should be playing the second.

[Nelsormensch]

I think I'm most unsure about what to use for economy and ice (other than a few standards like Neural Katana, Archer, the new cheap Jintei barrier). Do Jinteki players here use Celebrity Gift? Celebrity Gift seems like it would be better if a deck had more traps so you could do things like show the runner a combination of agendas and traps. Which ice do you prefer in a Jinteki deck?

 

As tberton kinda said, I think this is largely dictated by which Jinteki identity you're playing. If it's core (PE) then I've found you probably want a mix of cheap ETR ICE and ICE that punishes facechecking. So that's stuff like Himitsu-Bako/Bastion/Wall of Static/Ice Wall, Enigma/Datapike and Caduceus/Rototurret in the former case and Neural Katana/Grim/Rototurret in the latter case. Chum is good too, of course, since it's just 1 credit and seeing that alone means if there's an unrezzed ICE behind it, most runners will jack out unless they've got their entire breaker suite up. Pop-up Window is good for R&D or HQ, since you're probably going to be relying more on Snare and Fetal AI to keep your R&D safe early on.

 

For econ, core Jinteki seems to want operations. I ran 3x Hedge Fund, 3x Beanstalker Royalties and 2x Celebrity Gift at the Plugged-In tour in Seattle, but I ended up at several points wishing I had ICE/assets instead of cash, so I'm backing it down to just 3x Hedge Fund and 3x Celebrity Gift. Jackson Howard does indeed synergize with CG well, since you can draw up to 8 cards on click 1, reveal 5 on click 2&3 showing some agendas and then discard whatever you want. If you did toss agendas and the runner goes for the Archives, sack Jackson and shuffle them back in. If they didn't, you can leave them chilling in there for a while until they do.

 

Now, everything changes a lot if you're playing Jinteki: Replicating Perfection. Relying on flatlines in RP is much less reliable (with one exception we'll get to) to the point where it's probably not worth even including Neural EMP.

 

RP decks have two distinct flavour of ICE- punishing central server ICE and remote protection ICE. Since the runner *must* hit at least once of your centrals before they can run a remote (note, the run doesn't have to be successful, so they can bail after encountering one piece of ICE and then head for a remote on the next click), you want to make those central runs are punishing as possible. Things like Hourglass, Uroboros, Sherlock 1.0 (people really undervalue this card- it's freaking *great*), Ichi 1.0/2.0, Victor 1.0/2.0, etc. Then you generally have one big ol' remote server you're piling varied and protective ICE on that you're actually using for scoring. If you can get a Ruhr Valley on that server, so much the better. Having Akitaro Watanabe and/or Amazon Industrial Zone on that server are also aces. You can keep those upgrades safe by playing Edge of World on that big ICE server while you're waiting for another agenda. Midori is also great on that big server, since you can sub in whatever ICE you have in hand that the runner *really* doesn't want to see.

 

And then the other thing you do is play a *ton* of econ assets. Dedicated Server, Private Contracts, Pad Campaign, etc. Since the runner has to hit one of your centrals before they can even go after those assets, 9 times out of 10, they'll be left alone for a while, especially if they have a high trash cost. People will probably still come after a Melange Mining Corp, but a Pad Campaign? Probably not (and you can use Melange being a "high priority" asset to your advantage as well).

 

It does feel like there's more room for a couple operations in RP that you'd probably never play in PE. Shipment from Kaguya is good, especially if you can get to that crazy situation where you have two Ronins at 3 advancement tokens each. Hit them both with one click via SfK then deal 6 net damage on the next two clicks and you've almost certainly won. Shipment from Mirrormorph is good too, for dropping down a ton of assets, getting that punishing ICE on your centrals quickly, etc.

 

*whew* I think that's it for now. Can you tell Jinteki is what I play the most?

[tberton]

I played an RP deck at Plugged-In revolving mostly around Hourglass, but it didn't work too well. I don't think I played it very well, but I also think I would have done better with Pad Campaign over Dedicated Server. Also, my agenda mix needs work, as I'm not certain that Fetal AI really fits.

 

Really, I think I'm going to need the upcoming Sundew, Inazuma and Caprice Nisei to make this deck really work.

[Nelsormensch]

Really, I think I'm going to need the upcoming Sundew, Inazuma and Caprice Nisei to make this deck really work.

 

At the Plugged-In in Seattle, I played again Lucas (lead designer of FFG Netrunner) who was running a core Jinteki deck with a bunch of the new Jinteki cards an he *owned* me with Sundew. It was behind a single ICE I didn't have a break for and it just *dumped* credits on him. It was freaking crazy. So yeah, stoked for that.

[tberton]

It's going to be especially good in RP, because they literally cannot satisfy it's condition. Unless they trash it, you're getting 2 credits a turn.

[GoTeamVenture]

I've been using the core set Jinteki identity. My thought behind the deck is that it would be nice if I flatline the runner, but it's not my only goal. I've been including a lot of low point agendas so either the runner has to make a lot of runs/takie a lot of damage to win or I can advance them faster.

 

I had been using a mix of operation and asset economy. I think I'll try the operations only idea though. In the past I've always felt like I don't have enough credits with Jinteki so I am going to try 3x Beanstalk, 3x Hedge Fund, and 2x or 3x Celebrity Gift. I also have 3 of the Gila Hands agendas in my Jinteki deck now which can be used for economy.

 

I don't think I had quite enough punishing ice in my previous Jinteki decks. Grim is a good idea. I think I am going to splash one of those along with two each of Archers, Rototurrets, and Cadeucus. I also have the Jinteki ice like Neural Katana and Chum. I had been using Himitsu-Baku and Wall of Static for ETR ice so I will stick with this. I like Popup Window but I am pulling that to use the agenda points for other cards. Do you guys use Data Mines? They seem like they could be more useful now with Jackson Howard.

 

Right now my only traps are Snares. I am considering including one Ronin though. I don't want to try and find room for Trick of Light so I'd rather not use Junebugs or Cerebral Overwriter to make use of the advancements if the runner doesn't go for those traps. The fact that so many traps are in Jinteki tends make runners cautious and slow them down even if there aren't many in my deck. I'd rather do damage with my ice and identity to slow the runner down and use the deck space for other cards. I also have Neural EMPs and a couple Hokusai Grids in my current deck.

 

Right now I have two Jackson Howards. I was considering adding a third. I would have to remove Rototurret though. How many do Jackson Howards do you guys use in your Jinteki decks?

 

I haven't played this particular build yet. I think I might use it at the tournament on Sunday anyway just because I think it would be fun to play.

[Nelsormensch]

If you haven't see these, there's a couple of canon Jinteki articles on BGG/Stimhack:

 

This one's all about net damage as a form of "work compression":

 

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/19853/my-secret-love-affair-with-jintekipersonal-evoluti

 

Then there's this series all about Jinteki as a rig ruiner:

 

http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/index.html/_/articles/a-jinteki-doctrine-r671

http://forum.stimhack.com/t/jinteki-rig-removal/52

 

And a more recent update with a few thought given Creation & Control and some upcoming Spin Cycle cards:

 

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1011718/reconstructing-a-faction-jinteki

[tberton]

I was just re-listening to Mario's Picnic and it got me thinking about what an FFG-made digital Netrunner implementation would look like. I think something where when you bought a Data Pack, you got a code that got you a digital version of every card and there was an online marketplace where you could buy alternate art (fan-made and FFG-commisioned) for your digital cards would be really sweet. And of course a nice, clean implementation of the actual game.

 

A digital version of the game that was easy to get into would be so nice, especially since there are so many janky aspects of the Netrunner core rules that would be great to have a computer handle.

[TheLastBaron]

So I think I now am fluent in this game. I'm not good by any means, but I can watch videos of people playing and I know what they're doing.