The Business Side of Video (Space) Games EXCLUSIVELY ON IDLE THUMBS

[Denial]

(With certain exceptions, of course, re "any reason or no reason" - if you terminate someone for raising a discrimination complaint, for example - and if you terminate someone very shortly after they have raised a discrimination complaint, even if you insist it is without cause, you might want to talk to your lawyers. And some collective bargaining agreements protect workers in labor unions, but that's next-level labor law stuff...)

[Sno]

This was a real surprise, I have a hard time imagining Bungie without Marty. I think he's one of the most talented composers working in video games, and he's been with Bungie since the Myth series, he was one of Bungie's oldest hands.

[Merus]

This is particularly odd for me because here you can't terminate employees without cause. If you want to get rid of an employee but they've been decent, you have to make them redundant, and they get compensated based on their salary and length of service.

 

But then Australia is fairly unusual. We have long-service leave, where if you've been in the same job for ten years you get two months off with pay.

[Dewar]

The United States doesn't have very good labor laws, but many companies follow a higher standard. The laws simply establish a baseline.

[Bjorn]

So Twitch is getting into the video games sales and financing side of things, including funding a game that is entirely designed around being played on Twitch with audience interaction/participation.

[tberton]

Funny story: I found out about that right after I backed that game on Kickstarter.

[Bjorn]

Aol launched a Joystiq themed gaming deal site today.  My kneejerk reaction is just that it's plain gross to see that, but I'm not sure that it's a fair reaction.

[Frenetic Pony]

All I keep hearing from devs is whining, whining, complaining that this new "Next Gen" will cost sooooo much more than last time yet again. That they've got to do blah blah blah to keep up with everyone, that creating yet another magnitude of complexity of assets is required. I call absolute bullshit. They've all just grown so used to "upping their game" that the thought that maybe assets are good enough doesn't even occur. That maybe, unlike Ryse and Second Son and whatever, you really don't necessarily need detailed facial capture of all your damned characters and etc. That just makes for more unplayable cutscenes with close ups in what is ostensibly a video GAME.

 

And I'm pretty sure someone just proved my point beautifully by bringing in original 2007 Bioshock Assets, which looked like this:

 

 

And then put them into Unreal Engine 4, and they now look like this:

 

 

I really just want to show this to every developer (and maybe yell at them a bit) wasting their time making ultra realistic, super detailed assets, when they could just make everything to the same quality they did previously, have the game look quite a bit better anyway, and maybe spend some of that time making the actual game part of the game better, or at least different.

[Twig]

Gotta be honest, that video doesn't look too hot. Maybe I'm spoiled, or maybe it's just that whoever imported that put the wrong materials on the wrong things, but some of that shit is too shiny and some of it is too flat and textureless. If I saw that today in a game by a AAA developer I would be sorely disappointed.

 

I like my games to look good. I don't think that looks good by today's standards. Even the quality of the art doesn't save it.

 

Also, that screenshot looks better, so I'm pretty sure it's just that whoever set up this video did a bad job.

[Frenetic Pony]

Gotta be honest, that video doesn't look too hot. Maybe I'm spoiled, or maybe it's just that whoever imported that put the wrong materials on the wrong things, but some of that shit is too shiny and some of it is too flat and textureless. If I saw that today in a game by a AAA developer I would be sorely disappointed.

 

I like my games to look good. I don't think that looks good by today's standards. Even the quality of the art doesn't save it.

 

Also, that screenshot looks better, so I'm pretty sure it's just that whoever set up this video did a bad job.

 

To each their own I guess. I'm not saying it looks SUPER. It could definitely be put together better as a scene, from the perspective of lighting everything and composition. But it looks a LOT better than the original game did in clarity and shininess.

 

And honestly just quadrupling texture resolution is quite easy and almost costless.

[Merus]

AAA is in the process of eating itself; at this point AAA is down to a handful of franchises, and the door has closed for basically any developer that doesn't already have a record in the space. Anyone complaining about costs at this point isn't going to survive - the faster they transition to indie, with a smaller budget and a lower price point, the more secure they'll be.

[Dewar]

Personally, I've always cared about smooth frame rates and responsive controls and graphics more than graphics quality anyway. That's part of what disappointed me about "next gen." They use that extra power to put hundreds of realistic zombies on screen rather than just making sure the game runs silky smooth. 

[Denial]

Oh, and Kadokawa have bought From Software, or rather an 80% stake in From Software - which I imagine is the 80% that was held by Transcosmos.

 

This seems to make sense - Transcosmos is one of those Neuromancery multi-channel IT and media companies that seem to sit somewhere between being corporations and holding companies, like Softbank. Kadokawa has been working to become more of a cohesive media group, and reorganised itself completely last year to be a single media corporation rather than a set of subsidiaries making video games, manga, anime and so on...

[Sno]

Some people were freaking out about the From/Kadokawa news, but it honestly doesn't sound like it'll be bad for anybody.

[N1njaSquirrel]

As long as they keep on making games, I don't think it'll change anything drastically.

 

In other news, It seems that NOLF has gotten out of legal dispute hell and will have a re-release. Finally I'll be able to play it.

 

Also Harmonix has started a kickstarter for a re-release of Amplitude for the PS3/4.

 

In 18 days they have to raise $775,000. 

 

I love harmonix more than any thing, but this is an absurd amount, for a small game that got good reviews but not much sales. To top it off, their backer reward tiers are silly. $125 for a t-shirt? come on. Also no PC? why? 

 

And their reasoning behind the kickstarter is annoyingly ambiguous. Idk, it all seems like too much.

[Bjorn]

In other news, It seems that NOLF has gotten out of legal dispute hell and will have a re-release. Finally I'll be able to play it.

 

Woot!  I never played either NOLF, so this is really exciting. 

 

 

Also Harmonix has started a kickstarter for a re-release of Amplitude for the PS3/4.

 

In 18 days they have to raise $775,000. 

 

I love harmonix more than any thing, but this is an absurd amount, for a small game that got good reviews but not much sales. To top it off, their backer reward tiers are silly. $125 for a t-shirt? come on. Also no PC? why? 

 

And their reasoning behind the kickstarter is annoyingly ambiguous. Idk, it all seems like too much.

 

WTF?  Did you see their answer as to why they aren't doing PC?

 

We think it’s important for a game built on the history of Amplitude and FreQuency to be focused on Sony hardware in order to remain faithful to the core gameplay experience.

 

While we'd love to bring this game to other platforms, including PC, the Kickstarter promise is for PS3®/PS4® only at the moment. While we never say never, PC support for this title is very unlikely and not in our current development plan.

 

Did either of those games ever go to non-Sony hardware?  Could publishing rights be tied up with Sony, but they don't want to come out and say that?  Because if they did, then people would be asking, quite rightly, why the fuck Sony isn't ponying up the money for a game they have the publishing rights to. 

 

I usually don't speak negatively about Kickstarters, but something feels off about this one. 

[Twig]

Yeah I was initially super-excited and then immediately super-disappointed by the lack of PC. I, too, was wondering if it was tied to Sony, somehow. But if it was, yeah, why isn't Sony paying for it? And if it's just a matter of licensing or whatever, why not just make a new game? Do they really think nostalgia for the exact songs/mechanics is the only way to get the funding? I think Frequency and Amplitude were originally published by Sony, but I agree that this just feels off.

 

EDIT: There's this. http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/05/05/amplitude-how-sony-and-harmonix-agreed-to-revive-a-classic

 

I guess Sony has agreed to contribute to funding if Harmonix can get the backers. On the one hand, gross, but on the other hand, fair enough, I guess, if you really think you need that much money......................

[Dewar]

You hear all these stories about companies who use up more than half their money on fulfilment of Kickstarter promises. This is a lot closer to the TBS telethons where you get a unique DVD for a $100 pledge, rather than a T-Shirt pre-order system. $125 for a t-shirt is more like what I think a lot of kickstarters should be aiming for.

 

The choice of Sony only is a bit odd, but I've heard enough people rave about Frequency and Amplitude that I decided to throw in my $20. Maybe it's like that one movie kickstarter (I searched but couldn't find it) where they needed to earn enough money to prove to the studio that the movie was worth making, and then the studio threw in the rest? Maybe Sony has offered to back them with some money if they can prove it's wanted?

 

Edit: Whoops, posted this a few minutes late I guess.

[Bjorn]

Why isn't all that information in the Kickstarter if they are willing to publicly talk about it in an IGN article?  I'd call it dishonest if they weren't giving interviews about it, but that's the kind of information that ought to be in your KS description somewhere.  Particularly if you're going to give what is clearly a line of pure bullshit for why there isn't PC development.  Just say, "Sony owns the rights and we are partnering with them on this project assuming that we can prove that there is enough fan interest to make another one."  There is nothing wrong with that, and I support hybrid/multiple funding options for projects.  But you have to be honest about it to your backers.

[Dewar]

I guess Sony has agreed to contribute to funding if Harmonix can get the backers. On the one hand, gross, but on the other hand, fair enough, I guess, if you really think you need that much money......................

Well, look how much money Doublefine has spent on Broken Age, which is a comparitively priced game. Larger independant developers don't have the luxury (or misery) of cutting their budget to the bone in order to make a game.

Edit: Yeah, that is interesting that it wasn't included in the Kickstarter pitch. Maybe there's some sort of contract and that IGN article got the scoop on some information that's not supposed to be publically available? I suspect that they'll be more news on it after the kickstarter closes.

[Bjorn]

Good news on the crowdsourcing front though, the most important game of this generation has been funded.

 

Edit:  A legendary post suited for a new page.

[Twig]

Well, look how much money Doublefine has spent on Broken Age, which is a comparitively priced game. Larger independant developers don't have the luxury (or misery) of cutting their budget to the bone in order to make a game.

Edit: Yeah, that is interesting that it wasn't included in the Kickstarter pitch. Maybe there's some sort of contract and that IGN article got the scoop on some information that's not supposed to be publically available? I suspect that they'll be more news on it after the kickstarter closes.

Broken Age is a brand new game. Amplitude is a remake with no (planned) new features. I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the budget is for licensing costs for songs and such.

 

Anyway, I wasn't implying they didn't need the money. Or not trying to. I just take issue with the deal-with-the-devil feel of the whole thing. I'm not convinced locking Sony exclusivity is worth the cost. I bet they'd make more money if they went everywhere, isntead of just stick to PS3/4, and it's frustrating to me because I fucking love Amplitude. It's my favorite music game ever. And I've hated pretty much everything from Harmonix since. Bleh.

[Bjorn]

Broken Age is a brand new game. Amplitude is a remake with no (planned) new features. I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the budget is for licensing costs for songs and such.

 

They aren't licensing any music, it's all going to be in-house produced music according to the description. 

[Murdoc]

All I keep hearing from devs is whining, whining, complaining that this new "Next Gen" will cost sooooo much more than last time yet again. That they've got to do blah blah blah to keep up with everyone, that creating yet another magnitude of complexity of assets is required. I call absolute bullshit. They've all just grown so used to "upping their game" that the thought that maybe assets are good enough doesn't even occur. That maybe, unlike Ryse and Second Son and whatever, you really don't necessarily need detailed facial capture of all your damned characters and etc. That just makes for more unplayable cutscenes with close ups in what is ostensibly a video GAME.

 

And I'm pretty sure someone just proved my point beautifully by bringing in original 2007 Bioshock Assets, which looked like this:

 

 

 

And then put them into Unreal Engine 4, and they now look like this:

 

 

I really just want to show this to every developer (and maybe yell at them a bit) wasting their time making ultra realistic, super detailed assets, when they could just make everything to the same quality they did previously, have the game look quite a bit better anyway, and maybe spend some of that time making the actual game part of the game better, or at least different.

 

I really don't think that Unreal 4 Bioshock example looks very good at all. Partially due to poor lighting, but the materials are way off for me, the textures, too low res and muddy, and the polycounts are unacceptable. Frankly an upres at this level would be the waste of time. 

The thing about PBR(photo based rendering) in Unreal 4 is that it can allow developers to start making assets in a new way and really cut out a lot of the detailed texture memory and time we spend on diffuse maps. Simply sticking the assets in a new engine works (the bioshock example) but is far from desirable. It's sort of the equivalent to last generations "slap a normal map and some spec" on it that we got early on; it may have made it look "modern" but it didn't look good. If a developer wanted to take this half step, honestly, I think just having rendering engineers work some magic on the current engine would end up looking better than porting it over and trying to upscale everything.

 

We had Unreal 4 in the final months of 2k Marin and basically had most of the team just spinning around in a chair waiting for the axe to fall. We wanted to make a tech demo or pitch something, but the leadership wasn't really there to get it together. A lot of us thought it would be cool to try a real attempt at remastering Bio2 or something, but Irrational was already hitting us up for Bio2 assets for Burial at Sea and someone there didn't want us touching that franchise with 100 foot pole.

 

The way things turned out over there in the end kind of makes me wonder if 2K wouldn't want a capable studio at being able to do that eventually, which they still have, sort of, whether it's called Marin or not.

[Twig]

They aren't licensing any music, it's all going to be in-house produced music according to the description. 

Well, shows what I know.

 

So... NO FREEZEPOP?! I'm out. Fuck this shit.

 

Anyway, that's also a good reason to ask for more money. Whatever. I'm still annoyed because I don't want to own a stupid console but I want to play this game more than most games that will be released in the near future.