Broken Sword: The Serpent's Curse Kickstarter

[toblix]

When we started thinking about the project, we wanted to get as close as possible to the original feel in HD. But HD on, for example, the iPad3 is over three times the original resolution both horizontally and vertically - 10 times as many pixels. We did experiment with an artist creating the character animations but it would simply have taken too long to create them. Personally I am pleased with the 2.5D look - we do model and animate in 3D but then pre-render to get as close to 2D as we can. Apologies if this wasn't clear enough in how we described the project.

I don't get it. What, the pixel count is too high?

[elmuerte]

ugh... those characters... back the project and complained about the characters.

[Thrik]

I guess he means creating such huge sprites takes more time, which I guess is fair enough if we're talking about something like Monkey Island: Special Edition sprites. The Broken Sword sprites were and are relatively simple though, so I see no reason why an artist couldn't create these in illustrator like he normally does and simply upscale the hell out of them, being vectors. I guess it'd mean paying more attention to details like line strength and tapering, but it's not that big a deal.

Again though, it's still hand animation which is a long and laborious process, particularly if it's got to be smooth. I can totally see why it wouldn't make the cut with this budget.

[toblix]

Yeah. I asked about this in the Kickstarter forum. I see how hand-drawing animation can be time consuming, but I don't get the pixel count argument.

Honestly, I wouldn't be so concerned about the way they looked if they were just animated properly, but they aren't, at least not in the video.

They just passed 100 000 dollars, which is a quarter of the goal. I haven't paid enough attention to all the various video game kickstarters, but I guess at this point someone could make an educated prognosis. 25 % on the first day seems pretty good, no?

[BigJKO]

I think his argument about pixel size is because that many frames per second, per animation, fills up a SHIT TON of graphics memory, or whatever.

They already have the characters in 3D, why not just render them in real-time 3D on top of the backgrounds. They already look awful, anyway, won't look worse in real-time 3D and then they'd be able to do HD without using up SHIT TONS of video memory (I have no idea what something like that is called). Right now, we just get the worst of both worlds.. They can't upscale it and it looks like 90's 3D..

[SiN]

Anyone want to go into more detail about *why* the animation looks awful? I thought it looked "off" while watching the video, but I think that's because it's so smooth. Upon closer inspection the actual motion looks pretty good (maybe a bit stiff here and there). Are we just change-averse, or is it an uncanny valley effect?

Also I kinda liked BS3. As an adventure game it was ... mediocre (to be generous), but I enjoyed the story/cutscenes/dialogue.

[toblix]

It's definitely not uncanny valley (since they're not anywhere near realistic-looking,) and it's definitely a little bit of change aversion, but mostly it's just that it looks worse than BS1 & BS2. I just looked at the video again, and though the characters themselves don't look as bad as my first impression was, they still don't mesh as well with the background as they did in the first two games. The worst part is the obvious, mediocre 3D skeletal animation they've got going. In the first two games, skilled animators gave everything a smooth, natural feel – here it's someone keyframing and dragging joints around, rotating heads, etc. It just looks cheap.

[BigJKO]

Yep. Thinking about this more, watching it again, this still disappoints me immensely. There are just so many amazing ways to make 3D art look good and integrated with such beautiful 2D backdrops.. But this basic cel-shading just looks ugly and lazy.. *sigh*

I always think fondly of the original Broken Sword's art, never so much the story. So after Cecil's 2D hyping before the annoncement, this is just disappointing. I'll pass. If it ends up looking better, I'll play it on release.

[brkl]

I wonder if it would be possible to use a similar animation system as Double Fine is using for their Adventure. That's also done in a similar way as animating a 3D model (probably the same software, skeletons etc.) but it's 2D planes moving around and bending. That looks good to me even though it's not hand-animated. They use a very different style, though.

[Thrik]

Man, I have no idea what you're talking about as I've been intentionally staying ignorant about DF's game but that sounds great.

[toblix]

Yeah, the DFA animation system looks really sweet.

[brkl]

Oh right, that stuff is probably hidden if you haven't backed the game.

[Thrik]

I did back it, but I'm not looking.

[elmuerte]

Wow! Everyone here at Revolution is totally blown away by the amazing response and the affection of the comments posted! In less than a day, we have nearly managed to reach 40% of our target! A few people have asked for an indication of the final look for the characters - this is what we currently have, although we are still working on our graphics technology.

[Thrik]

Blows my mind that people are sat there casually throwing $500—1000 backing amounts at it.Those rich bastards!!!!!

[Nappi]

The characters look bad. I don't mind. Backed.

[Jake]

Man, I have no idea what you're talking about as I've been intentionally staying ignorant about DF's game but that sounds great.

Thrik your brain will fucking explode when you watch eps 3 and 4 of the DFA documentary.

[Salacious Snake]

What do I have to huff to see a new Hopkins FBI?

[SiN]

It's definitely not uncanny valley (since they're not anywhere near realistic-looking,)

A different kind of uncanny valley. With the older games there were *much* fewer frames of animation, so we fill the gaps in our mind. With BS, because it's 30 frames, it leaves little/nothing to the imagination. That said, there are enough examples of good 3D animation (hello Pixar) that leaves my argument on shaky grounds.

[Timett]

I'm torn between my love of the first couple Broken Sword games and my distaste for Kickstarter. I'll keep an eye on this and probably end up funding it toward the end if it looks like it needs a push.

[Tanukitsune]

What do I have to huff to see a new Hopkins FBI?

At this rate, even Dare to Dream and Chewy Esc from F5 will get a Kickstarter.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Distaste for Kickstarter?? Okay.

Anyhow, I think it's the stiffness of the characters that makes them look so unreal and unpleasant. I hope they come up with something more beautiful by the time it's released.

[brkl]

Thrik, I've been watching the documentary, and so far they've been pretty careful about spoilers. When the game is close to release, any one paragraph description with a screenshot will probably spoil you more. It's more about the background stuff and the people than the particulars.

Also, Chris appears occasionally and oh man, that's Chris working at Double Fine!

[ThunderPeel2001]

Yep, that's true. The artwork we've seen has only been test artwork so far, too. Nothing featuring actual characters or locations from the final game.

[SiN]

+1 on the documentary stuff. I'm also in the "EYES SHUT, NO SPOOOOOILERRRS!" camp, but I was pretty much fine watching the first two episodes. Also worth noting, it's been far more insightful than I expected it to be.