The Elder ScrMMOlls

[Sno]

I know the timeline; hadn't heard that there was a date for the game, since it's just been announced and all.

Hmm, according to the Imperial Library 1000 years before Skyrim would put the setting ~2E 500, several hundred years before Tiber Septim uses a giant robot god to conquer the continent. There's... really nothing interesting going on in that period, other than that there's no empire. I suppose it's a pretty blank slate. The Tribunal exists, but if it's just Cyrodiil they won't feature.

I wonder if Cyrodiil will be an actual jungle this time? Since they ret-conned that in Oblivion by saying Tiber Septim magicked it into an aggressively conventional Tolkien-esque fantasy landscape.

I know way too much about TES mythology.

Wasn't it said that it would be the full continent?

It's also apparently going to have some kind of faction-based persistent conflict. Three factions, in fact. The revealed logo for the game, you can note, has three heads. A dragon, a lion, and a hawk. The dragon is obviously the empire, the hawk probably has something to do with the high elves, and i don't know about the lion.

The time period also sounds about right, a big blank spot where they can make up a ton of shit about the empire being embroiled in conflict prior to Tiber Septim uniting the continent under its banner.

There's also apparently going to be an ongoing plot that seems to basically be Oblivion, but with Molag Bal instead of Mehrunes Dagon.

What gets me is the utter stagnation of Tamrielic technology. TES games cover what, 450 years total? Literally no technological progress. I have to wonder what it was like 1000 years ago, since I assume the Dwemer were still around. Though if it's in Cyrodil, when did the Aeylid die out?

If you're only talking about the main games, the only time jump is from Oblivion to Skyrim, the rest of the games are within relatively short spans of eachother. If you're counting Redguard, it's actually a significantly longer stretch of time across the series than 400 years.

Anyways, it's the same kind of technological stagnancy argument that can apply to most of the big collective works of fiction. They want these huge stretches of time to give themselves lots of room to tell distinct stories without different authors stepping on eachother's toes, but every era is the same as the last because the expected status quo must be maintained. It's lazy, and it's not just a problem with TES, it's kind of not worth singling out just one franchise when it's such a wider problem.

Though to be fair, TES is a universe were the last race to progress into industry blinked out of existence. You could also argue that magic basically fills most of their needs anyways, and that has caused stagnancy.

Edited May 4, 2012 by Sno

[Orv]

I'm not going to bother checking this, but I thought it was

Arena

10 years

Daggerfall

75 years

Morrowind

20 years

Oblivion

200 years

Skyrim

[brkl]

I don't know if technology developed in any way that would obvious from say year 0 to 1000. The exponential development of technology is such a new thing for us, I don't think it has to be forced on a fantasy world.

[brkl]

It's how I feared: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/05/04/a-lot-of-tamriel-estate-the-elder-scrolls-online/

[mikemariano]

It's how I feared: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/05/04/a-lot-of-tamriel-estate-the-elder-scrolls-online/

To become Emperor you’ll have to conquer Cyrodiil, taking forts, mines and farms in many-on-many PvP scraps, eventually attacking the Imperial City and engaging in a 100 vs 100 battle, the winner of which becomes Emperor.

"Mike Mariano just checked in as Emperor of Cyrodiil on Foursquare!"

[circadianwolf]

What gets me is the utter stagnation of Tamrielic technology. TES games cover what, 450 years total? Literally no technological progress. I have to wonder what it was like 1000 years ago, since I assume the Dwemer were still around. Though if it's in Cyrodil, when did the Aeylid die out?

Ayleids are mostly pre-first empire (they were the rulers Alessia's slave rebellion defeated to form the first empire), so if they're around, it's probably only in the secret enclaves that were mentioned as rumors in Oblivion but never seen.

Arena through Oblivion is all just one emperor's reign (Patrick Stewart), and post-Oblivion is a period of pretty immense war (the rise of the Nazi Elf Wizards). We also don't see a lot of infrastructure that would demonstrate technological advancement--mills, etc. Cities are just weird empty blocks of houses and shops.

[youmeyou]

Whoo boy, that RPS article does not spell good tidings.

Combine that with the fact that it's going to based of the SWTOR Hero engine and this is starting to look a lot like Bethesda cashing in on the MMO/WoW clone market very similarly to how BioWare has with The Old Republic.

[Brannigan]

Whoo boy, that RPS article does not spell good tidings.

Combine that with the fact that it's going to based of the SWTOR Hero engine and this is starting to look a lot like Bethesda cashing in on the MMO/WoW clone market very similarly to how BioWare has with The Old Republic.

The only upside was the focus on exploration and no quest markers like in wow

[Sno]

It’ll be a World of Warcraft style game. That’s not based on an analysis of the facts and careful comparison, that’s based on the fact that it’s described as having World of Warcraft-style mechanics.

... And that's me tuning out.

[Raff]

An entirely redundent 'trailer' has been released. Bad Zenimax...

[AlfredJ]

I don't care in any way about this game. I like the experience of Elder Scrolls games, but only because those games make it possible to have very weird personal adventures. I don't feel bad about never playing this interpretation of the Elder Scrolls Universe.

I do like the fact that the marketing department isn't even bothering to make this game appealing to fans that are paying even a little bit of attention:

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Also, this is my first post here. Hi, I guess!

Edited May 4, 2012 by AlfredJ

[Orv]

Consider that, potentially, in between Skyrim and Morrowind was Oblivion, there-by allowing Cyrodil.

[Roderick]

Yeah, I noticed that particular geographical oddity. Skyrim is directly adjacent to Morrowind. I weep for poor Summerset!

Anyway, here's the deal. I don't play MMOs for their gameplay - as long as it's moderately OK I'll be fine. I don't always play MMOs, but when I do, I am an explorer and all I want is super-atmospheric landscapes and good music. If they get that right, I'll be fine. Look, I know this all sounds really bland, but I'm trying to keep an open mind here. I've enjoyed too much time in Elder Scrolls games not to do them at least the courtesy of waiting for some footage.

[Sno]

People are really freaking out about the screenshots, but i don't think it looks so bad. I mean, it's recognizable enough as TES that i was able to identify a lot of creatures and locations and everything.

It is very bright though, that's the most off-putting thing about those shots. It's not exactly neon vomit like WoW, but it's a long way off from TES, which has always been very muted and grounded in its color palette.

I've been told by people who actually play MMO's that some of the stuff they're promising sounds pretty awesome. (The public dungeons and even, apparently, having a universal stamina gauge governing blocks and evasion.)

The whole thing about how they're going to let the three factions essentially run themselves and ultimately try to install one of their own players as the emperor sounds kinda neat too, that sounds like the kind of craziness it needs.

I said i was going to tune out on this one, but i think i'm in too deep.

I simply do not play MMO's, but as a huge TES fan, i am super curious about what they're going to do.

[Henroid]

When I first heard of this when it was a rumor, my reaction was, "Well, if they handle it right, this could turn out okay. The world is already crafted in detail, so they can focus on a lot of other things to make them better since it's just a matter of recreating existing terrain."

Now I'm taking a cursory glance at details and...

[Roderick]

With EVE being the most kerrazy dynamic 'anything is possible on Halloween' type of MMO and World of Warcraft being the least, I wonder where Elder Scrolls will be. Putting an emperor on the throne could be pretty fun if it entails the sort of realtime powermongering EVE offers, but perhaps it'll simply be down to PvP-rating or somesuch quatsch. How about holding a popular election, where players need to actually campaign, gain popularity, amass wealth to pay for their rise to power?

[Orv]

With EVE being the most kerrazy dynamic 'anything is possible on Halloween' type of MMO and World of Warcraft being the least, I wonder where Elder Scrolls will be. Putting an emperor on the throne could be pretty fun if it entails the sort of realtime powermongering EVE offers, but perhaps it'll simply be down to PvP-rating or somesuch quatsch. How about holding a popular election, where players need to actually campaign, gain popularity, amass wealth to pay for their rise to power?

TERA is attempting this. In reality all that's required is gaming the system, but it's an interesting try at least.

I suspect placing an Emperor of your choosing will require (in no particular order/combination);

- Property control

- Some form of points (Popularity, moral control, karma, whatever)

- Inter-agency (side) cooperation

If it requires all three, the chances of it going and/ lasting smoothly for any decent period are unlikely.

[brkl]

Where can I find screenshots?

EDIT: http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Elder-Scrolls-Online-Screenshots-Art-Look-Nothing-Like-Skyrim-42184.html

[Raff]

I'm just not interested in this kind of on-the-ground gameplay with the million skill buttons, the disconnected combat and the crude physics. There's no possibility of any sense of place or solidity and the games tend to rely on endless trashy reward schemes to compensate for the massive comprimises of the minute-to-minute gameplay. A lot of people seem to think that this is all an MMO can be because of latency, but other stuff has been done. Darkfall for example has almost Quake-like fidelity (Too much, to be honest. It's far too quick. But their flawed designs are holding it back rather than tech.) with a hell of a lot of people in a totally uninstanced world (and unzoned apart from the dungeons). The client/your computer usually konks out way way before the servers do.

When people talk about sandbox games they tend to focus on the macro stuff in EVE, which is great, but there's really little reason why we can't have action-based MMOs which are highly emergent on a micro and macro level.

It seems such a waste that the big budget MMOs have such weak ambition at the ground level.

[elmuerte]

Where can I find screenshots?

EDIT: http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Elder-Scrolls-Online-Screenshots-Art-Look-Nothing-Like-Skyrim-42184.html

doesn't look at bad

[brkl]

I agree. It's the design that bothers me, not how it looks.

[Orv]

I'm just not interested in this kind of on-the-ground gameplay with the million skill buttons, the disconnected combat and the crude physics. There's no possibility of any sense of place or solidity and the games tend to rely on endless trashy reward schemes to compensate for the massive comprimises of the minute-to-minute gameplay. A lot of people seem to think that this is all an MMO can be because of latency, but other stuff has been done. Darkfall for example has almost Quake-like fidelity (Too much, to be honest. It's far too quick. But their flawed designs are holding it back rather than tech.) with a hell of a lot of people in a totally uninstanced world (and unzoned apart from the dungeons). The client/your computer usually konks out way way before the servers do.

When people talk about sandbox games they tend to focus on the macro stuff in EVE, which is great, but there's really little reason why we can't have action-based MMOs which are highly emergent on a micro and macro level.

It seems such a waste that the big budget MMOs have such weak ambition at the ground level.

Pretty much all of your complaints may be solved by the fact that they are not using Gamebryo. We shall see.

[Raff]

I think there's enough information out there to suggest that it's nothing like what I'm describing as ideal. I'm not sure what you mean about Gamebryo, all sorts of very different games use that so I've always found the criticism layed on it over the drawbacks of Bethesda games (totally unrelated to what I'm talking about) a little flimsy.

The neogaf thread claims that the Game informer article says: "-The combat model will not be real time due to latency"

Which, if true, actually translates to "-We're having wow style combat because that's what the established audience are used to and it's cheaper."

But yeah, I'm not going to moan and judge any further. It's a bit of a sore point for me because I've had some staggeringly great times in MMOs in the past, in games that never had the budget/audience to live up to their potential, or where the really interesting aspects were neglected or removed.

Edited May 6, 2012 by Raff

[Corelli]

I expect this to combine my least favourite parts of Elder Scrolls games with everything I hate about MMORPGs.

Well said! I have nothing to add, other than blech.

[Murdoc]

I will second that, nothing what I hoped for, but everything I pretty much expected.

Ah well, it's not for me, someone will probably like it.

edit: Actually let me add my 2cents about the art. It's bland. Not in the same way every Elder Scrolls game has that generic Tolkienesq quality to it, but in the way of modern(1990s+) fantasy art has gone.

Whatever stylization you want to justify for your game, the actual designs and colour palette doesn't relate to established fiction for either Skyrim or Morrowind.

Instead it has that uninformed, budgety, mmo look to it.