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The Walking Dead

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Was any one else worried after Episode 2 that the game had jumped the shark and landed in crazy town? I really loved how quickly everything spiraled out of control but the leap from "choose who gets to eat today" to "crazy cannibal murder farm" gave me some pretty hard whiplash. I still really loved Episode 2 for the crazy roller-coaster that it was, but the relatively quiet episode 3 came as a relief to me.

I'm torn. I kind of liked the over-the-top horror show that the episode was obviously becoming. It immediately read to me as "Oh, they're doing Texas Chainsaw Massacre now" and in retrospect, I'm not sure how intentional that was. On it's own, it was great, but it did feel out of joint with the rest of the series, which is why I think most people disliked it so strongly.

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Was any one else worried after Episode 2 that the game had jumped the shark and landed in crazy town? I really loved how quickly everything spiraled out of control but the leap from "choose who gets to eat today" to "crazy cannibal murder farm" gave me some pretty hard whiplash. I still really loved Episode 2 for the crazy roller-coaster that it was, but the relatively quiet episode 3 came as a relief to me.

Absolutely. That's been the biggest shock so far (haven't played Episode 5 yet). That's probably the best example of how uneven the series has been -- it was almost like the two writing teams never discussed anything together. Not that it was a bad episode, but it was tonally very different, and if they'd all been little stand-alone crazy horror story of the week, I wouldn't have enjoyed the series as much. The best bits of the series for me have been getting to know the characters (even though the next writing team seems to be very happy to dispatch with new characters immediately) and learning more about the world.

The biggest indication that I actually care about these characters came to me during Episode 4. When it came time to discuss whether Clementine should leave on the boat or stay in the new Crawford, I actually wanted to stay. Previously I'd been extremely interested in how the rest of the world was coping, but I would be happy to sacrifice that if it meant Clem was safe.

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I'm torn. I kind of liked the over-the-top horror show that the episode was obviously becoming. It immediately read to me as "Oh, they're doing Texas Chainsaw Massacre now" and in retrospect, I'm not sure how intentional that was. On it's own, it was great, but it did feel out of joint with the rest of the series, which is why I think most people disliked it so strongly.

It was somewhat deliberate. Episode two was supposed to get the crazy B-horror movie story out of the way quick, for people who like the stories in the comic about fishtanks full of living zombie heads and gladiator games and rape/torture/dismemberment and stuff. Episode two had some massive redesigning in it though, as the script was written to an earlier set of gameplay systems, and it switched leads half way through production as a result, which I think made it feel more apart than the original intent. It was always intended to be more of a direct to VHS horror story, and 4 was originally intended to be some sort of creepy mystery story, but I think they became a little more self contained than intended over time. Am I repeating myself? Sorry.

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It was somewhat deliberate. Episode two was supposed to get the crazy B-horror movie story out of the way quick, for people who like the stories in the comic about fishtanks full of living zombie heads and gladiator games and rape/torture/dismemberment and stuff. Episode two had some massive redesigning in it though, as the script was written to an earlier set of gameplay systems, and it switched leads half way through production as a result, which I think made it feel more apart than the original intent. It was always intended to be more of a direct to VHS horror story, and 4 was originally intended to be some sort of creepy mystery story, but I think they became a little more self contained than intended over time. Am I repeating myself? Sorry.

This makes perfect sense! And it's actually good to know the reasoning behind it, since I have not read the comics. It also sounds like there was perhaps more coordination going on than those of us posting in this thread have been assuming. Thanks, and great job!

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I actually liked Episode 2 a great deal. It's funny, but I never thought of myself as someone that was into the more B-movie side of the comics until now. I keep swinging between my favourite episodes actually. I think I'm stuck between 2 and 4.

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I definitely dig episode 2, but only because it's contrasted by the more dramatic character stuff in episode 3 (episode 4 feels like a perfect balance between the two, and I haven't played 5 yet). If the whole season went B-movie, I think I would have felt betrayed.

My least favorite episode is probably 1, but mostly for the same reasons any pilot episode tends to the weakest.

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I agree about the B-Movie sentiment working in isolation. The end of episode 2 was the most excited I was about it, but I feel my fond memory would have deteriorated faster if all the episodes went in that direction. What I really liked about episode 2 was that the whole thing was telegraphed, really. The only surprise was

Larry's death

. It was really enjoyable though, because it was done so well. You saw it coming but it was executed really, really well. That would have been incredibly challenging to maintain for three more episodes.

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My least favorite episode is probably 1, but mostly for the same reasons any pilot episode tends to the weakest.

Huh, interesting analogy. For me, Pilot episodes of TV shows are often the strongest. They're the ones that have had the most amount of work put in to them. It may take writers time to get to grips with the show itself, but pilots tend to be rock solid, IMO. (If you want to compare it to the first "proper" episode of a show, then I'd agree: That's the one where they have try and expand on what the pilot did.)

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Oh I don't know, I would agree that pilots can be pretty weak. It depends I suppose. For example, I liked the pilot mini-series for BSG more than the series that followed (and I really liked the series that followed) although a mini-series is different from a pilot. Pilots often struggle with having to shoehorn a LOT of stuff in. Sometimes it can be ridiculous. I spent most of the Fringe pilot laughing out loud at how bad it was, though admittedly it took most of Season 1 for that to wear off.

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Yeah pilots are always hit-or-miss. I just started watching The Wire for the first (I know, so late to the game), and after watching the pilot, I couldn't understand why everyone was obsessed it with. Based on the pilot alone, it just seemed like a really well-acted, well-written cop show, but not the 'best TV show of all time.' It took 2-3 more episodes for the show to convince me of why it deserved such high praise.

I'm surprised that episode 2 is so disliked; for me it wasn't the best, but I certainly enjoyed it. I think it transcended a lot of it's stock horror movie tropes to become a really good piece of writing:

The aforementioned 'death of Larry,' and the fact that you can let Clementine eat human meat, which read more like The Road than B-movie horror schlock to me, all make this episode worthwhile in its own right.

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Yeah pilots are always hit-or-miss. I just started watching The Wire for the first (I know, so late to the game), and after watching the pilot, I couldn't understand why everyone was obsessed it with. Based on the pilot alone, it just seemed like a really well-acted, well-written cop show, but not the 'best TV show of all time.' It took 2-3 more episodes for the show to convince me of why it deserved such high praise.

I'm surprised that episode 2 is so disliked; for me it wasn't the best, but I certainly enjoyed it. I think it transcended a lot of it's stock horror movie tropes to become a really good piece of writing:

The aforementioned 'death of Larry,' and the fact that you can let Clementine eat human meat, which read more like The Road than B-movie horror schlock to me, all make this episode worthwhile in its own right.

I still haven't watched The Wire! It's on my increasingly lengthy to watch list. One of the things I like about television in the last few years is that audiences have gotten more patient. Fringe is a great example of this. I was told by people whose taste I trust to stick with it, and it really did get excellent (I still haven't started the latest season incidentally). It's not universally true; network television especially is still ruthless and ridiculous, but hopefully it's a trend that keeps going in that direction.

To bring this back around to video games, I would hope the success of the First Season of Walking Dead would give the guys some space to relax and enjoy their creative freedom a little bit. Not that the first season wasn't creative already (it was) and you don't want to lose that "tight" feeling that the Walking Dead really nailed throughout all the episodes, but I'd like to think that the audience is committed to the idea now and perhaps that gives the team more latitude.

Then again, maybe it could lead to changes in the creative process that could bring about a sophomore slump (something I don't want to see happen as a thumb, fan of Telltale, and video game player - knock on wood).

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Yeah pilots are always hit-or-miss. I just started watching The Wire for the first (I know, so late to the game), and after watching the pilot, I couldn't understand why everyone was obsessed it with. Based on the pilot alone, it just seemed like a really well-acted, well-written cop show, but not the 'best TV show of all time.' It took 2-3 more episodes for the show to convince me of why it deserved such high praise.

I don't believe The Wire had a pilot... It was just commissioned. Also, it's an example of long-form television, so it's quite unique in that sense. BSG was a backdoor pilot, so a little different, but I definitely agree it wasn't the strongest opening. Pilots tend to have been crafted for months (sometimes years), whereas a typical episode of a show is broken in a week. I think it's hard for regular episodes to have the same level of crafting that a pilot has. (Consider Modern Family -- beautiful structure in the pilot episode that I don't think has ever been matched by another episode, no matter how great they might be.)

I agree they can be hit and miss, though. Sometimes a show will evolve into something better than was originally imagined.

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I don't believe The Wire had a pilot...

Episode 1 The Target is the pilot of The Wire. I don't know how it is in international markets, but as far as I know all American syndicated TV shows start with pilots, regardless of the nature of the show. Even if it's going to be a major long-form story, it's still better to invest in the story production and never shoot than to follow through after a terrible start. At least from a financial standpoint.

I will say that my love for Episode 2 was very shallow. There were a lot of low-brow thrills that just appealed to me in a very base way. I still liked it though. It was well done, didn't break anything, and shifted the pace a little bit. I appreciate that it was just done for one episode, though I'd like to see more crazy one-offs in the future.

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Whether it's a pilot made to pitch to Networks or the first episode of a commissioned series (The Walking Dead game probably having more in common with the latter), your first episode is always going to be saddled with the most exposition, the audience will be the least invested in the characters, and the artists are the least familiar with what they're making.

The first episode of The Walking Dead is able to side-step a lot of it just because the boilerplate nature of what a zombie movie is, but it's just a fact of serialized storytelling. The Wire's pilot is actually an interesting illustration of why that is because, in ignoring so much of that necessary pilot stuff, it's one of the least accessible pilots ever. I know a lot of people who, even after hearing it's the best show ever, were unable to make the leap into watching it because of that pilot.

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Episode 1 The Target is the pilot of The Wire. I don't know how it is in international markets, but as far as I know all American syndicated TV shows start with pilots, regardless of the nature of the show. Even if it's going to be a major long-form story, it's still better to invest in the story production and never shoot than to follow through after a terrible start. At least from a financial standpoint.

Of course, I totally agree. It makes the best sense to spend money on the cheapest part of production, getting it right, before moving into the most expensive part -- but when has common sense been a strong suit of network executives? :) I could be wrong, but seeing how The Wire is HBO, and the show was an exercise in "long form" story-telling, I imagine they would have gotten the scripts right, and been happy with the idea of a series, before filming a true pilot episode. But, as I say, I could be wrong.

Not sure what you mean about "American syndicated TV shows", though, as The Wire wasn't sold into syndication until much later in its life.

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"The Target" is the pilot episode of the HBO original series' date=' [/size']The Wire.

Edit: Apparently you can't put urls in the quote tag? Article link.

I wasn't sure how to narrow it down; I'm sure there are some public access or local TV stations that just throw out shows without pilots. Syndicated isn't right.

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The main Wikipedia page for the series has two citations for the "first episode is a pilot" thing. The first citation leads here, where the creator calls the first episode a pilot and the second citation is to this book, which seems to confirm that HBO did have them shoot a pilot first. So yes, it looks like maybe The Wire went through the whole "make a pilot then make the series" thing.

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Congratulations to the Walking Dead for its DICE wins. I tried watching a live-stream of the awards show, but only made it through five minutes of the opening 'comedy' bit before I had to bail. Still, glad that the Walking Dead continues to rack up the awards.

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The blog I write on just put up a podcast about The Walking Dead.

 

It has a ton of spoilers so if you are interested in listening be warned that we go all over the house.

 

Also any feedback would be appreciated, we are aware that the recording area isn't the best and Vimes (if he is still around) woudl probably be irritated at the amount of laughing done it:

 

http://www.arcadianrhythms.com/2013/03/ar-podcast-8-the-casting-dead/

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The "argument" is brief and inconclusive. Unlike on these forums, they all basically just agree to disagree about what they did and didn't like and volunteer to call themselves pretentious cocks for trying to define what constitutes gameplay.

I was amused that they kept calling Ben, the lanky band kid, a jock. I guess it's the sweater. I was also amused that they would refer to totally fictional locations by name (e.g. Hershel Farm), but then they would refer to actual real world locations as "some town" (e.g. Savannah, GA).

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I'll be honest, that whole gameplay thing was us being idiots. Well, more specifically me. We're really fortunate to have Potter 'Matt' on the podcast as he helps ground us a lot more than in previous podcasts where Shaun and/or I would get on our high horses about something.

 

As for the Ben thing, that is actually hilarious as I had always thought of him as a jock and you are right it is because of that sweater.

 

It also shows that the person with the best memory (myself) hasn't played the game since the last episode was released so some of the venues' names, unless prominent in both the comic and TV fiction, kind of got forgotten.

 

Thanks for listening Luftmensch!

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I just finished Episode 1 and am irrationally tickled that Sean's wife is in the "Thank You" section of the credits as "Mrs. Dr. Amelia Moore Vanaman."

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