The most ridiculous Prince of Persia game yet?

[pabosher]

Not to lynch you, but that is complete f@#$ing bullshit. (or in other terms, I chose to respectfully disagree)

Hey, I never said it was a good excuse.

[miffy495]

A coworker bought it on the weekend and has finished it already. On the one hand, that's sorta dumb. On the other, he's offered to lend it to me, so I may get to play it for free in a week or so. For free, I'll definitely give it a shot.

[miffy495]

Dude brought it in to the shift we had together tonight, so rather than digging into my fresh (oh so fresh) copy of Red Dead Redemption, I played 3 hours of Forgotten Sands tonight. I feel sort of obligated to complete the game and get it back to him before playing anything else, dig? Anyway, my initial thoughts:

I'm so fucking conflicted over this game. On the one hand, I said (and believe posted) about Assassin's Creed 2 that the Assassin Tombs were exactly what I wanted a modern Prince of Persia game to be, and it really seems like they tried to do that with this game. I like the design, I like the flow of platforming, I'm enjoying the combat, and it's great to have manual control over when something gets rewound or not (choosing whether that bit of damage you took from a swinging axe is worth expending the time resource actually feels like a real decision, for example). Taken piece by piece, this should be one goddamned amazing game. But when it all comes together, something about the overall feel is off. It's the little things. The camera swinging an unintuitive way when I poke the right stick. The breaking of flow in order to swing the camera around to an opened gate when I swing to a bar that doubles as a switch. The over-reliance on the R2 button (I'm on PS3, by the way) for traversal rather than putting in some slightly more precise controls. All these little things and others like them begin to combine to give a very distinct feeling. This game should have been made in 2003. And it was. And it was just a little bit better then.

I like playing with the new pretty graphics of course, but that's about all that has changed. What I'm playing right now is Sands of Time, but given that weird glossiness that seems to come with HD and taking a bit of the colour out of it. Not that comparing this game to Sands of Time is bad by any means. I absolutely love that game. The problem is that this game doesn't feel like a sequel, it feels like a remake. Or reboot. Whatever the kids are saying these days. A remake where all that has changed is the graphics. The mechanics, as much as I love Sands of Time, are dated now. I can still go back and play SoT, getting myself in that mindset is easy. I played it back then and I know what to expect. I guess I just expected something a bit more progressive. I really like this game actually, it just feels hollow in weird ways.

So yeah, I like it, but it feels off. A part of me wishes they hadn't done this and had instead made a sequel to PoP2008. Much as that game frustrated me with its simplicity and telegraphing of solutions, I felt that there was a lot of potential in there. There's a lot of potential in this design too, but it's the same potential that has gone unimproved upon for about 7 years now. Seeing what was done between AC1 and AC2, I'd like to see how PoP2008 could be built upon and maybe leave this prince to memory. Forgotten Sands is a better game to send him off with than Two Thrones was, but I kinda hope this is his final encore.

ADDENDUM: Of course, I've also heard that the game gets incredibly creative with its use of water puzzles later on, so maybe I just haven't seen the brilliant parts yet. Keep in mind, this is only 3 hours in.

[Murdoc]

Definitely just copied her likeness from Portman, I remember that.

I also agree with all of your complaints about the art style, especially the weird proportions and the constant problem of white people being Persian that has almost plagued the whole series.

I guess now that you mention it, I do remember the early video with the white haired Elika. Do you have a source that it was an Ubisoft higher-up decision, Murdoc, to change her to someone more "likable" or is it more of a hunch you had? I mean, it wouldn't be the first time I've heard of executives wanting different things than the designers at Ubisoft.

Yeah, whenever a game gets approved at Ubisoft they have to go present it in Paris to the top brass. They felt the girl was too ghostly and wasn't personable (which would have been fine considering the alternative was annoying)

The whole thing reminded me of Shadow of The Colossus, 1001 nights style... I'd really like to see that game one day.

I think the art style was adjusted too because it was looking too ps2 and not "next gen" enough. Granted the video I saw looked a bit flat with tone and color, but it was heading in a stronger direction then what they ended up with... it sort of was like Twilight Princess.

Though that isn't too say I don't like the final look of the environments in Pop 2008; it looks nice, I just didn't like a lot of the choices in character design or architecture.

[miffy495]

Just a quick update of more impressions. They've now started doing some really creative stuff with the water powers. I quite like it. My opinion of the game is improving, as it seems to be making more of a case for its existence beyond "you guys liked the old ones, right?" Still feels a little weird, and I wouldn't pay the $70 that the stores are asking for it, but I am really enjoying my time with it.

[Kolzig]

The most interesting aspect to me about the new Prince of Persia is that they seem to have really tried to make different experiences on different gaming platforms.

From what I read the 360/PS3/PC versions are the same, but the Wii version is genuinely different compared to the others. Some even say it looks better in character animation for example? Of course the DS version takes another route also, but is similar apparently to the previous DS PoP game, I think the engine is the same and just the graphical assets are changed.

[lobotomy42]

The most interesting aspect to me about the new Prince of Persia is that they seem to have really tried to make different experiences on different gaming platforms.

From what I read the 360/PS3/PC versions are the same, but the Wii version is genuinely different compared to the others. Some even say it looks better in character animation for example? Of course the DS version takes another route also, but is similar apparently to the previous DS PoP game, I think the engine is the same and just the graphical assets are changed.

And for whatever reason, very few outlets seem to want to review the Wii version, which is frustrating.

[miffy495]

And done. For those interested in time, it took me between 7 and 8 hours over three sittings. For those interested in how long a game feels, just right. The platforming got crazy right at the end, just as it should, and the ascent of the final tower got at least two or three cries of "Seriously? Fuck..." out of me. The use of water and platforms that you could conjure (but only one at a time) really sold me on this game existing. It's actually its own thing, and stands as a very good entry in the franchise, so well done to the team behind it. I liked it far more than I expected to going in.

As for the endgame itself, it was sort of hit and miss. There was an admittedly very simply but nonetheless exhilarating platforming sequence (hit) followed by a boss fight that feels like it was rejected from one of the recent Zelda games (miss). Not that I ever expect games to have good boss fights anymore, but it still stings a bit every time my suspicions are confirmed.

I died a few times. Only once because of the combat (there were enemies I could only damage with heavy attacks and I used said attacks so infrequently I'd forgotten I could do them. For the longest time I thought they were invulnerable through some glitch). Most of the time it was the traps and my running dangerously low on rewind power. I like that a lot, by the way. Kept the tension up, and made me genuinely relieved when I did something awesome. The only cheap thing I found were the damn birds. Not in the way they were cheap in Sands of Time either. In this game, the birds are basically floating grapple points. You throw yourself from one to the next using some magic flying power that the Djinn gives you and they just float there waiting for it to happen, never attacking. Once I started a chain of them, I never had any issues, but starting one was only registered half the time by the game. I'd jump and hit circle to start, but nothing would happen and I'd fall to my death. Rewind and do the exact same thing, pull it off no problem. Stupid game not listening to what I tell it.

The level design was gorgeous, particularly the gardens. The only disappointment was the

djinn city

. I kinda had hoped that a place that had been

inhabited by a race of magical beings

would look more like the area where you go to get your new powers (the same area where you upgraded your life bar in SoT, I think) rather than like every other damn ruin in the game. You had a great opportunity to make an amazing level there, Ubisoft, why would you not take it?

Regardless, I recommend this game to those who want some more PoP in their life. I never played Two Thrones, but compared to the other three modern PoP games, I'd rank this one second, behind SoT and ahead of PoP2008. It loses some points for unoriginality, but comes up strong in level design, interesting mechanics, and keeping the tension up all the way through. I think this can be counted next to Riddick as a game released alongside a movie that I would be proud to recommend regardless of a person's opinion of the film in question. Hell, I haven't seen the film, but the game was great fun.

[syntheticgerbil]

Thanks Miffy for the big write up! The gameplay sounds solid, which is good to hear. Any chance you'll ever be playing the Wii version just to see the differences Ubisoft is boasting?

[miffy495]

I doubt it. If it hadn't been lent to me, I probably wouldn't have played the PS3 version in the first place. Honestly, in the early stages of the game (first 2 or 3 hours) when everything still felt like cutting-room-floor material from SoT, I was mostly thinking "Man, I have a copy of Red Dead Redemption sitting RIGHT. THERE." Then it got its hooks into me and I really started liking it. Regardless, the point is that I have so much on my gaming plate right now (currently have a stack of "in progress" that includes 3D Dot Game Heroes, ODST, Brutal Legend, and will soon add RDR) that without the chance to play it for free, I would not have touched Forgotten Sands. New things keep coming out that I want to play, there's stuff from last year I haven't had a chance to look at right now, I really want to buy Alan Wake, and more stuff is coming as soon as next week. Ugh. Too much quality gaming, man. Just too much. Unless it also gets handed to me for free, probably not going to play the Wii version.

[lobotomy42]

Eurogamer has a review of the Wii version up.

[Garden Ninja]

Thanks for posting that review. After reading that, and seeing a trailer for the Wii version, I kind of want to play both versions. Although, sparkly prince is a bit weird. Not sure what that's about.

[syntheticgerbil]

So I finally reached this game after playing the Prince of Persia games in mostly chronological the past few years. I also have an unlocked PoP thread to post in, yay! I only played the PS3 version for now, and I'm otherwise caught up with the series. I pretty much agree with everything Miffy said a few years ago. It was very much a throwback plus and the game was much more engaging than I thought it would be.

The water powers make kind of a big difference once they come into play. All of the platforming and puzzles became about timing in addition to the usual, sometimes getting me into a frantic button press and messing it up completely. Luckily the time rewind is thankfully back. When the water freezing stuff gets intense closer to the end of the game with a long string of jumps, climbs, and swings are in your path, the game makes you feel simply awesome when you pull it off. Very satisfying.

Major drawback is for whatever reason the combat was completely scaled down and stupified. The combo system started in Warrior Within is completely gone. While originally an unwelcome addition for most in Warrior Within (also being very clunky there), it had been refined all the way up to PoP2008, where the combos were very involving, easy to understand, and were simply gorgeous in terms of animation and effects. The problem with 2008's combat was the inability to use the system on multiple enemies and there were useless added quicktime events when you were near death or some special attacks.

Forgotten Sands scraps all of that and adds a major amount of enemies where I initially had fun jumping on their heads and using the new magic powers, but ends up completely boring after the first few hordes. Why something more similar between a mix of 2008 and Two Thrones did not result here is beyond me. I thought it was actually going to be like that and was in for a surprise.

As for the "superficial" parts of the game, the art direction is very boring and sepia tone in contrast to the two games before, the story is just uneventful, and unengaging garbage, all characters are uninteresting with instantly forgettable dialogue, and the Prince's face looks like complete ass now. The face change, I'll never understand, but I'm guessing the other factors were just the result of rushing to get the game out in time with the movie. Might explain why it's so short as well.

Also, last thing: fuck Ubisoft and their stupid ass credits. This is fucking nuts now. What is wrong with this company? Why are there 500 people credited after the actual people who worked on the game from every useless mediocre to poor studio Ubisoft has opened in the last decade or so to every marketing team the studio has ever used? I suffered through this in Beyond Good and Evil HD, which had double the length of already long credits for 2003. Same thing with Rayman 2 3DS. All of the Prince of Persias leading up to this have just gotten progressively worse. What is the point of this idiocy? Forgotten Sands was a half hour of credits which I waited to end just so I could see a shitty epilogue movie at the end. God damn it Ubisoft you fucks, you are such a horrible behemoth company now.

[Kolzig]

Do you plan to play the Wii version of Forgotten Sands at some point?

[syntheticgerbil]

Yes, probably in a few months. I'm playing the cell phone version right now when hanging around, which is surprisingly good.

Actually not so surprising, since PoP 2008 cell version was very nifty as well. Besides being kind of streamlined and easy, they are very solid and fun platformers with great animation and graphics. Most cell games I've played so far have just been complete ass, the Metal Gear Acid ones I recently finished being complete awfulness and bad execution, as well as being full of bugs.