L.A. Noire

[Garple]

At least no one is a loose cannon in the trailer.

Shadow, Colossus, My office: NOW!

[CaptainFish]

I wouldn't mind the clichés if those cutscenes aren't just broken up with ridiculous third-person shooting sequences. If it's actually a procedural detective drama I'll put up with a few genre clichés and some bad writing. If interrogating a suspect means shooting 50 nameless henchmen and triggering a cutscene with the perp, then I'll pass.

[Garple]

I would think as Video game fans, we'd be used to cliches by now. I'm not saying that excuses them, but seriously...how do you make a noir game without relying on genre tropes? It almost needs to be cliche in order to feel like proper noir. Besides, Red Dead Remdemption was a just a thrill ride through 70s Westerns and that didn't stop it from being a lot of fun. In fact, I would have been disappointed if the game hadn't featured a gatling gun sequence a la The Wild Bunch. Sure those are glorified turret sequences, but in this crazy postmodern world we live in...how do you make anything that's not a re-skinned version of something else? I could say more, but I'll ease off because I sense I'm possibly being a little obnoxious.

[ThunderPeel2001]

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Ahhh... now THERE'S a trailer. Something you've never seen before that's also immediately compelling... What a setting!

Edited November 14, 2010 by ThunderPeel2001

[ThunderPeel2001]

I would think as Video game fans, we'd be used to cliches by now.

Sick of them, more like. At least, I am.

I'm not saying that excuses them, but seriously...how do you make a noir game without relying on genre tropes?

See above Grim Fandango trailer. It has cliches, but uses them playfully and has tons of originality, too. It's not just about originality, though, it has to be compelling... Something LA Noire is not (at least in the trailer), IMHO.

If the LA Noire was a film... would you be in the least bit interested in watching it? Would you be eagerly awaiting its cinema release? Would you go and rent it on DVD? I certainly wouldn't.

It sells itself like a movie, but it looks like the most mediocre film...

How do you make anything that's not a re-skinned version of something else?

I don't know, but I do know that there's trailers for things that DO look compelling and original, and those things make me want to watch/play them.

It almost needs to be cliche in order to feel like proper noir... In this crazy postmodern world we live in...how do you make anything that's not a re-skinned version of something else? I could say more, but I'll ease off because I sense I'm possibly being a little obnoxious.

It's not about being "totally original", but if you're not going to try and anything new to the mix, then why bother? Grim Fandango, LA Confidential, hell, even Discworld Noir, all took the "film noir" setting and did something clever or different with it. I can't see any elements of originality in the trailer, only attempts at imitation. Nothing more.

[Garple]

It's not about being "totally original", but if you're not going to try and anything new to the mix, then why bother? Grim Fandango, LA Confidential, hell, even Discworld Noir, all took the "film noir" setting and did something clever or different with it. I can't see any elements of originality in the trailer, only attempts at imitation. Nothing more.

Isn't the originality just pastiche in those examples? Taking Noir and something else and slapping it together? (I don't really mind that per se and have only experienced LA Confidential firsthand out of the three, so I'm pulling S out of my A, I suppose). I didn't really "get" LA Confidential...was the point like: It's noir but this is the 90s, so now we can swear and stuff!

[ThunderPeel2001]

As I said, it's not about being "totally original", it's about creating something compelling. One reason why LA Noire's trailer, to me, does not looking compelling, is because it's a direct imitation of things I've seen a million times before*. Not only that, but it's a pale imitation of those things. It's noteworthy because it ironically tries to make itself look like an exciting film, but by doing so it, (to me, at least), only highlights these flaws.

Also, I don't think "pastiche" can be applied to genres like that, but even if it can, and I'm wrong (which is certainly possible); what's so bad about that? It's certainly an improvement on pale and direct imitation!

I know I'm probably forcefully stating my opinion, but it's only my opinion, and I don't mean any offence.

* So to clarify: Compelling != originality

Edited November 14, 2010 by ThunderPeel2001

[Erkki]

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[circadianwolf]

I'm pretty sure Octodad will have a more interesting story than L.A. Noire.

[ThunderPeel2001]

I think it definitely says something that I'm downloading Octodad right now

It looks stupid, unique and fun (at least the trailer was those things)... Although perhaps not necessarily to play (I imagine it's like controlling Drunken Niko Bellic for the entire game -- irritating). Still: Ha!

[Forbin]

Looks like there's a little QWOP in that game.

[Garple]

Your points are well made, Thunderpeel. Part of what I was trying to say is that I think originality is a bit overrated if not downright impossible. I believe execution is far more important. Batman: Arkham Asylum comes to mind. And yes, the trailer is not very compelling. But on the bright side, it's just cut scene snippets and I've never been dissuaded from playing a game because the cutscenes looked bad.

[CaptainFish]

I don't know if anyone has seen this fairly old preview from Game Informer, but from the way it's described it seems really cool gameplay wise.

Edit: It's from their March issue, but it seems it just hit the net last week.

Specifically, I like the sense that you have a notebook of everything your dude knows, and whenever you want to use that information you can. Too often I feel like I can't bring facts to bear in these types of dialogue systems (Alpha Protocol did a fairly good job).

I also like the idea of it progressing from case to case, just solving whatever crimes you've been tasked with. I sincerely hope the game doesn't have a large overarching case to solve, although I'm sure some will be more complex and involved than others. My main reason is that it can lead to save the world syndrome if it's too crazy in scope. Also, if they do put all their eggs in one huge crime, there's a big chance that it won't hit. It might come off too clichéd or predictable, but if there are a lot of smaller stand alone jobs, some will definitely be a favorite.

I was also impressed with the way the example presented didn't end in a shootout (or have shootouts be the primary mode of play), but more of a Law & Order + Prince Persia style chase and bust.

I'm not really in agreement about having aspects there for regular Rockstar fans that want to break the flow of the game. A cop shouldn't be able to just go on a rampage and get away with it. I feel like they should just follow the America's Army model and just lock you in a cell. (pg 3 a new formula)

I'm actually really hoping this game hits the regular motifs of crime shows/films. I want to have a car chase, I want to stake out a joint, I want to shake down a snitch, I want to arrest a guy in front of everyone at his job, I want to spook and chase down a suspicious witness and I want to bring a perp downtown and interrogate him. Sure those happen all the time in movies, tv series and books, but rarely in games, and even more rarely out of cutscenes. Just having a police officer game is rare, and when they exist so much of the game is just combat, or the actual job isn't important because you go rogue or some other nonsense. I want my Police Quest style game.

[Garple]

I'm not really in agreement about having aspects there for regular Rockstar fans that want to break the flow of the game. A cop shouldn't be able to just go on a rampage and get away with it. I feel like they should just follow the America's Army model and just lock you in a cell. (pg 3 a new formula)

I think Red Dead Redemption really cut down on the amount of freeform shenanigans available to the player, so I'd say there's a good chance your wish will come true (although, in the case of RDR...that may have just been a result of being out in the middle of nowhere...but hey...you couldn't have sex with prostitutes...John Marsten would say something like "those days are over" so there you go).

[brkl]

Oh, man, now I want to play Grim Fandango again.

[ThunderPeel2001]

I think Red Dead Redemption really cut down on the amount of freeform shenanigans available to the player, so I'd say there's a good chance your wish will come true (although, in the case of RDR...that may have just been a result of being out in the middle of nowhere...but hey...you couldn't have sex with prostitutes...John Marsten would say something like "those days are over" so there you go).

Yes, and his son was the same.

[Roderick]

Does that LA Noire trailer have the best lip synch I've ever seen, or what? Don't know anything about the game yet, I'm hoping it's a step up from the tried-and-true GTA/Red Dead formula, but we'll see.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Does that LA Noire trailer have the best lip synch I've ever seen, or what? Don't know anything about the game yet, I'm hoping it's a step up from the tried-and-true GTA/Red Dead formula, but we'll see.

The facial acting is definitely great!

[Quanta]

Oh, man, now I want to play Grim Fandango again.

Then I hope for you, that you're not running Windows 7 64-bit. I wasted hours to fix the glitches and crashes, but nothing helped. I capitulated eventually and won't touch this game it its current state again. I blame the engine programmers at LucasArts. This game was glitchy from the get-go. Just remember the elevator/forklift scene, which became unsolvable when your processor was too potent as an example.

LucasArts needs to remake this game pronto (and don't forget about decent controls this time!)!

[/offtopic]

[Hermie]

I'm with the people that don't quite see the utter brilliance of it. Sure, the animations are pretty great, but other than that, it doesn't tell us much at all.

Also, I'm not quite getting the "noir" feel from it. That takes more than some horn flares and men in hats. (At least show me some extremely sharp shadows.)

Also very much agreed on hoping that it has actual detecting and figuring things out, and not just Shootan mans in 3rd person with revolvers and tommy guns, then play a cutscene of the protagonist finding a clue and placing a giant arrow on top of the screen pointing to where you need to go next.

[toblix]

Then I hope for you, that you're not running Windows 7 64-bit. I wasted hours to fix the glitches and crashes, but nothing helped. I capitulated eventually and won't touch this game it its current state again. I blame the engine programmers at LucasArts. This game was glitchy from the get-go. Just remember the elevator/forklift scene, which became unsolvable when your processor was too potent as an example.

LucasArts needs to remake this game pronto (and don't forget about decent controls this time!)!

[/offtopic]

Did you try running it in 32bit XP, either through VirtualBox or the built-in XP mode?

[Garple]

I'm with the people that don't quite see the utter brilliance of it. Sure, the animations are pretty great, but other than that, it doesn't tell us much at all.

I guess we all pretty much agree it's not a very effective trailer...but it also tells us basically nothing about the game, so we shouldn't hold the trailer against the game itself.

[MrHoatzin]

I guess we all pretty much agree it's not a very effective trailer...but it also tells us basically nothing about the game, so we shouldn't hold the trailer against the game itself.

Why not? It is the part of the package. Even if game is good, we can still say that the trailer was shit and detracted from how awesome the game was—a prime example of awful trailer-making, etc.

[Quanta]

Did you try running it in 32bit XP, either through VirtualBox or the built-in XP mode?

I've got the Home Premium Edition, so no XP mode. And I hesitate messing with the Virtual stuff in general, as - even though I love Grim - it would be too much of a hassle to go through for a single game. I replayed the game several times already and rather wait for some compatibility update/remake.

[MrHoatzin]

I haven't been able to reliably play it since XP SP2.

Frankly, I would rather not have Lucas Arts remake this. Slap vertical bars for people that have larger monitors and maybe turn on some anti-aliasing, maybe some slightly higher-fidelity models (use hands from cut scenes, for example) and poop it onto Steam. Done!