L.A. Noire

[Sno]

I don't think those retailer-specific pack-in DLCs are currently available for purchase, but eventually they all will be. I have no idea what pricing will be like though.

I'd imagine it'd be like five bucks a case? Something like that, probably.

[Forbin]

Unpredictable? All about chance? I really, really don't agree, I had like an 80% success rate with the questions my first time through the game. (People who haven't played the game - I know this because it tells you at the end of each case.)

I mean, and not realizing that the number of intuition points resets between cases, i didn't even take advantage of the intuition system like i should have.

The doubt/lie choice isn't a gamble, if you have evidence, accuse them of lying. Even then, if you're not completely sure what direction phelps will take it in, prod with the lie accusation, since you can back out of that, and alright... I do think that is some weak design, sometimes having to fudge the game systems because it hasn't properly established for you an implicit understanding of where Phelps is leading the conversation.

He also accused the evidence finding of being a hotspot hunt like the worst part of adventure games. And while that could be true if you play it like that, you're really digging your own grave, because if you think critically about where evidence could be, you'll find it all before you have to rub up against all walls waiting for vibrations.

I mean, but i think you're giving Phoenix Wright too much credit here, i have played all of those games, and they are filled with bizarre left-field leaps of logic. (Some of those games more than others, i've definitely played cases in that series where i had the whole thing figured out like twenty minutes in, which isn't any good either.)

I think the difference is that if you get something wrong in that game, the game stops until you get it right. Here, if you screw up, the game doesn't give you a second chance, it makes you live with your mistake and find other avenues of investigation. That smarmy asshole sitting in front of you beat you. It's frustrating and completely awesome.

^ this 100%

People don't realize that things snowball, and that if you let the case get out of hand early, you're going to have a hard time doing anything but guessing later on. After completing the game (and missing quite a few questions along the way) I have to say there isn't really one instance that I feel like I couldn't have got the right question if I had paid more attention. There are one or two times where I felt like I had evidence that was enough to coax a lie out of someone but proved to not be the right piece, but if I'd payed more attention to their tone when I accused them I would have realized I didn't have the right evidence.

I was listening to HAWPCast and Anthony Burch started ranting about similar problems. I feel like people are getting ahead of themselves finding blame in the game when they really don't really understand why they're missing questions yet. They're also looking down on the game because it seems so simple and over-acted in the tutorial, but it doesn't take long before those training wheels come off.

He also accused the evidence finding of being a hotspot hunt like the worst part of adventure games. And while that could be true if you play it like that, you're really digging your own grave, because if you think critically about where evidence could be, you'll find it all before you have to rub up against all walls waiting for vibrations.

[JonCole]

Rockstar announced the "Rockstar Pass" this morning which will give access to all of the preorder DLC and a couple other pieces of post-release content that will total 4 cases and a couple weapons/outfits. It'll be $10 for the whole bundle, or $20 if you choose to buy them piecemeal for some reason. So, if you're waiting to buy the game because of retailer "exclusives", just go ahead and get them wherever and pick this up in a week or so.

As for gameplay things, I'd just like to make a small note that I've played the whole game without rumble and unintentionally made it a little better, I think. From what I understand, the controller rumbles when you're doing an investigation of a house and stumble upon something that may be a piece of evidence. Without rumble enabled, I've had to actually look around the scenes a little more deliberately and visually pick out things to hit 'A' for. Makes it far less gamey and a bit more immersive, fwiw.

[Jake]

As for gameplay things, I'd just like to make a small note that I've played the whole game without rumble and unintentionally made it a little better, I think. From what I understand, the controller rumbles when you're doing an investigation of a house and stumble upon something that may be a piece of evidence. Without rumble enabled, I've had to actually look around the scenes a little more deliberately and visually pick out things to hit 'A' for. Makes it far less gamey and a bit more immersive, fwiw.

You can turn that rumble off in gameplay settings, too. (which I did and am glad for it)

[miffy495]

After watching the Giant Bomb Quick Look of this, I decided it was probably a decent idea to check prices on it. Amazon had it for $51 instead of $59, so I ordered it from then. There is probably going to be a postal strike on Friday, buy hopefully that won't interfere too much with getting this game on my PS3 soon-ish.

[ThunderPeel2001]

So I finally got to play it. Beautiful game, but I'm having some troubles with the system, as others have said: It's very difficult to know exactly the logic behind things and why you'd gotten certain questions "wrong". I can also see why some reviews have compared it to a series of mini-games. I'm also not so hot on the "action" in this game... I find it quite annoying, to be honest.

That said, I am really enjoying it... but for some reason it's easier to talk about the things that bug me:

- I wish when I asked my partner to drive I could watch him drive, and actually get to watch this "90% accurate" version of 1947 LA. I don't like driving myself, but the scenery is so beautiful.

- The police work is SO inaccurate. That video of the real life detective talking was either heavily edited, or he was being nice for the game. An officer messing with a crime scene?? Turning the body over and going through his pockets?? Man, you'd get totally hosed for that. Maybe even charged with obstruction of justice or something. They'd certainly wonder why you were so interested in a murder case -- it'd look VERY suspicious if you started breaking protocol and messing around with evidence! (Even in 1947 they apparently created a "perimeter" to stop evidence from being destroyed before the detectives arrived.)

Still, I guess it goes with the "go gettem" attitude of the protagonist, and I can see a twist coming a mile away that would make use of his unlikely promotion stuff.

Another thing: You're told the most important thing for a detective is MOTIVE! (Like all good TV shows tell us.) But in real life detectives don't care at all about motive. "Here's the murder weapon with this guy's fingerprints on it. I have three witnesses who say they saw him shoot the victim. Who cares why he did it?"

As David Simon says in his book, (where I'm getting all my knowledge, I should add), motive makes for great stories, but in real life it's not a factor.

Also, obviously, the fact that everyone you accuse immediately turns into a homicidal maniac and tries to shoot you, is pretty silly. Most detectives never even draw their gun in their entire career. (Of course it's used an excuse for some action sequences.)

Another thing, which I've not come across yet, but I can feel it looming, is the "Jack Bauer" style of interrogation... or at least the "forceful" angry style. One of a detective's greatest weapons is actually getting you to believe they're on your side. It's much more easier to get a confession out of someone with, "Come on, they totally deserved it. If I was in your shoes, I'd have done the same myself!" than a, "If you don't tell me the truth, I'm going to staple your face to my desk!!!".

We'll see how that last one pans out, though.

Still, despite all these gripes, I am enjoying it. The animation is fantastic. (In many ways it's better than the Jeff Bridges stuff they used in Tron Legacy. Pretty crazy.) And I love the atmosphere and world.

If any XBox user wants a bonus case, I have a spare code, too.

[Murdoc]

I see where your coming from Thunderpeel, but I think some of the arguements of "thats not real" comes from your desire of wanting a "real" police game(I do too!)

From what I've played so far LA Noire wasn't trying to be that, so far it has more in common with Dragnet(TV, not movie) and LA Confidential, it's not trying to recreate being a police detective in the 1940s.

[ThunderPeel2001]

I see where your coming from Thunderpeel, but I think some of the arguements of "thats not real" comes from your desire of wanting a "real" police game(I do too!)

From what I've played so far LA Noire wasn't trying to be that, so far it has more in common with Dragnet(TV, not movie) and LA Confidential, it's not trying to recreate being a police detective in the 1940s.

Yeah, you're right, but did you watch the video on the other page? (Where the real detective watches the game and comments on its realism?) That's what tipped the scales for me into really wanting to buy this thing.

Still, like you say, I can still enjoy it in terms of its fictional Dragnet-style/TV show police procedural charm.

[Forbin]

So I finally got to play it. Beautiful game, but I'm having some troubles with the system, as others have said: It's very difficult to know exactly the logic behind things and why you'd gotten certain questions "wrong". I can also see why some reviews have compared it to a series of mini-games. I'm also not so hot on the "action" in this game... I find it quite annoying, to be honest.

That said, I am really enjoying it... but for some reason it's easier to talk about the things that bug me:

- I wish when I asked my partner to drive I could watch him drive, and actually get to watch this "90% accurate" version of 1947 LA. I don't like driving myself, but the scenery is so beautiful.

- The police work is SO inaccurate. That video of the real life detective talking was either heavily edited, or he was being nice for the game. An officer messing with a crime scene?? Turning the body over and going through his pockets?? Man, you'd get totally hosed for that. Maybe even charged with obstruction of justice or something. They'd certainly wonder why you were so interested in a murder case -- it'd look VERY suspicious if you started breaking protocol and messing around with evidence! (Even in 1947 they apparently created a "perimeter" to stop evidence from being destroyed before the detectives arrived.)

Still, I guess it goes with the "go gettem" attitude of the protagonist, and I can see a twist coming a mile away that would make use of his unlikely promotion stuff.

Another thing: You're told the most important thing for a detective is MOTIVE! (Like all good TV shows tell us.) But in real life detectives don't care at all about motive. "Here's the murder weapon with this guy's fingerprints on it. I have three witnesses who say they saw him shoot the victim. Who cares why he did it?"

As David Simon says in his book, (where I'm getting all my knowledge, I should add), motive makes for great stories, but in real life it's not a factor.

Also, obviously, the fact that everyone you accuse immediately turns into a homicidal maniac and tries to shoot you, is pretty silly. Most detectives never even draw their gun in their entire career. (Of course it's used an excuse for some action sequences.)

Another thing, which I've not come across yet, but I can feel it looming, is the "Jack Bauer" style of interrogation... or at least the "forceful" angry style. One of a detective's greatest weapons is actually getting you to believe they're on your side. It's much more easier to get a confession out of someone with, "Come on, they totally deserved it. If I was in your shoes, I'd have done the same myself!" than a, "If you don't tell me the truth, I'm going to staple your face to my desk!!!".

We'll see how that last one pans out, though.

Still, despite all these gripes, I am enjoying it. The animation is fantastic. (In many ways it's better than the Jeff Bridges stuff they used in Tron Legacy. Pretty crazy.) And I love the atmosphere and world.

If any XBox user wants a bonus case, I have a spare code, too.

The real detective was definitely generous, but he did mention that it was obviously wrong that they were touching everything at the crime scene. He said that it was likely due to the setting, which could be true but it's almost certainly just a gameplay conceit. I don't think they could make the game as it is in any period later than the 60s and have that style of investigation feel appropriate.

I think unfortunately the game is worse when you screw up. People who rush investigations and miss questions experience a snowball effect and branch far off the critical path which means there are odd unpolished events (like Cole shouting at a witness at seemingly random times). I don't want to say they're playing the game the wrong way, but the game is so much better when you invest yourself in doing everything you can to nail the interrogations. I didn't play the game like a perfectionist, but cases definitely were better when I got things right.

General tips:

- Never leave a crime scene when the music is still playing, you will most likely get at least one question wrong in an interrogation, and later in the game it could snow ball into getting almost everything wrong.

- Use "Doubt" as an "I give up" option. If you think someone is lying, accuse them of lying. Their response will really give you the information needed to follow through. If there's a chance you could catch them, they'll almost always indicate what you need to prove to follow through. If they give you some confused ramble, then you should back out and just use doubt.

[ThunderPeel2001]

The real detective was definitely generous, but he did mention that it was obviously wrong that they were touching everything at the crime scene.

I think he only mentioned that because they weren't wearing gloves. It's perfectly normal for a detective to move things in a crime scene (once photos have been taken, etc. etc.) but not a regular uniformed officer... I'm pretty sure even back then it would be a big deal. Still, the conceit was that the guy was a real go-getter, prepared to break the rules and solve the crime himself. (Makes me think: "Look boss, I went and solved the crime without anyone's help or respecting the chain of command or following any of the rules of my professional -- and this guy did it! So go ahead and lock him up. Don't start suspect me or anything, just because I tampered with the evidence. Heh.")

General tips:

- Never leave a crime scene when the music is still playing, you will most likely get at least one question wrong in an interrogation, and later in the game it could snow ball into getting almost everything wrong.

- Use "Doubt" as an "I give up" option. If you think someone is lying, accuse them of lying. Their response will really give you the information needed to follow through. If there's a chance you could catch them, they'll almost always indicate what you need to prove to follow through. If they give you some confused ramble, then you should back out and just use doubt.

Interesting notes there. Also: You can back out of a lie accusation? That's very helpful indeed!

[ThunderPeel2001]

Holy cow, I love this game so much. When you "get" the game's logic, it can be really enjoyable. I think I'm addicted right now. I love the feeling that the game is letting me make mistakes and going along with it. Can't wait to see how it unfolds.

Sure, the whole thing could have been done through FMV and I'm still unsure what the point of reconstructing an accurate version of 1947 LA was (as awesome as it is), but right now I'm not complaining.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Still loving this (everything you was absolutely true, Forbin). I'm loving the detailed LA map... but does anyone know if anyone's done any comparisons with actual photos?

The best I've seen is this: http://www.1947project.com/47PplaysLANoire (and it's all text). I'm surprised Bondi/Rockstar haven't released some "real life"/"in game" comparison shots themselves.

[Sno]

Still loving this (everything you was absolutely true, Forbin). I'm loving the detailed LA map... but does anyone know if anyone's done any comparisons with actual photos?

The best I've seen is this: http://www.1947project.com/47PplaysLANoire (and it's all text). I'm surprised Bondi/Rockstar haven't released some "real life"/"in game" comparison shots themselves.

Bondi claims that their version of the city in the game is 90% accurate to the era. It does seem like they should have sent out some comparison photos or something to showcase that fact, definitely. That would have been good press for the game, and would highlight a lot of work most people probably won't even notice.

[Murdoc]

Not exactly what you guys where talking about, but this might be why, they based it off of aerial photos:

http://www.polycount.com/2011/05/26/l-a-noire-reference-photography-jackpot/

[Roderick]

I'm about 70% through the game now and it's so weird. I kind of hate it. I hate the story, I dislike the city, I detest the characters and the gameplay is interesting but also tedious and weird.

The music is awesome though, except the investigation-music with the moaning sound. I always have to turn that off because it drives me insane.

I think for every really cool thing in this game, there are two other things that are annoying or awful. I'm selling this the moment I'm through with it, it just pisses me off too much.

That smarmy psychiatrist guy is the worst video game character ever.

[ThunderPeel2001]

I'm about 70% through the game now and it's so weird. I kind of hate it. I hate the story, I dislike the city, I detest the characters and the gameplay is interesting but also tedious and weird.

The music is awesome though, except the investigation-music with the moaning sound. I always have to turn that off because it drives me insane.

I think for every really cool thing in this game, there are two other things that are annoying or awful. I'm selling this the moment I'm through with it, it just pisses me off too much.

That smarmy psychiatrist guy is the worst video game character ever.

Hehe. There's plenty to dislike, and I do wonder if we're going to look back and go "that was Dragon's Lair bad!", but if you follow Forbin's advice, you might get into it like I have.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Bondi claims that their version of the city in the game is 90% accurate to the era. It does seem like they should have sent out some comparison photos or something to showcase that fact, definitely. That would have been good press for the game, and would highlight a lot of work most people probably won't even notice.

I know. It's crazy. Considering all the effort they put into it.

Not exactly what you guys where talking about, but this might be why, they based it off of aerial photos:

http://www.polycount.com/2011/05/26/l-a-noire-reference-photography-jackpot/

Yep, but there must be some "normal" photography... even from films and such, from that era that could be used as a comparison by Bondi.

[Thrik]

Only got to the end of the third case, but absolutely loving it so far. Very immersive, great characters, graphics mostly do a good job (although very clinical and lacking much in the way of true beauty), sound and music is superb, and the case gameplay itself is very compelling and the first time I've really encountered such in-depth 'doing what you normally see in crime shows' play.

I do agree that getting your partner to drive between locations is by far the best way to play, to the point where it seems like it was designed that way before they stuck in the open world aspect. While the driving is done well, you get to do that during cases anyway (eg: when tailing) so it's not like you're missing out. I think I'd very quickly get fed up with driving everywhere.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Only got to the end of the third case, but absolutely loving it so far. Very immersive, great characters, graphics mostly do a good job (although very clinical and lacking much in the way of true beauty), sound and music is superb, and the case gameplay itself is very compelling and the first time I've really encountered such in-depth 'doing what you normally see in crime shows' play.

I do agree that getting your partner to drive between locations is by far the best way to play, to the point where it seems like it was designed that way before they stuck in the open world aspect. While the driving is done well, you get to do that during cases anyway (eg: when tailing) so it's not like you're missing out. I think I'd very quickly get fed up with driving everywhere.

It's interesting, but I've ended up driving everywhere now, just because I like the world so much and I want to see more of it... although I get heavily penalised at the end of every case for having high-speed collisions with everyone :-/

[toblix]

Just finished this, and I'm quite happy with it. The final sections sort of

devolved into the more typical "kill everyone" video game finale,

and the whole thing with the

flamethrower was so weird I'm still not sure I did it correctly or or just lucked out. The ending itself felt right, and consistent with the whole tone of the game. Fucking Roy Earle.

In the end, disappointingly, the huge city didn't really do much for me. In the GTA games I really got to know the entire game map really well by the end, but here it felt like just a bunch of streets and houses that could just as well have been procedurally generated. Obviously there are those who will appreciate the work more than me (I've never been to LA), and I guess since it's Rockstar they have to do a huge sandbox open world with everything, but it feels like they could've dropped the LA reconstruction open world part altogether and still have almost the same game. I'm sure they could have evoked the same sort of mood and place without mapping out the entire city.

Hilariously, during the game I got one of the hidden badges by accident, and one of the movie reels. Anyone know if these are hidden pigeon-style around town, or are they all in crime scenes and the like? As for the street crimes, I got 36, but it seems like there's no real way of getting the last ones. I tried some free-roaming, but just got ones I've already done. Also, there's no indication of what vehicles I've ridden in, or what weapons I've killed men with. I wonder how many people are going to go after – and complete – these achievements. There's no way of keeping track of anything.

edit: There are hints for the canisters and badges at the social club, apparently.

[juv3nal]

As for the street crimes, I got 36, but it seems like there's no real way of getting the last ones. I tried some free-roaming, but just got ones I've already done.

They vary by desk and by time of day. If you've done all the ones for a desk it'll tell you with a little text message when you load up free roam for that desk. Otherwise just drive around until it gets dark (or light) and something should show up, just check the map every once in a while as I don't know how granular it is (whether it's just night/day or night/dawn/day/dusk).

[Thrik]

What kind of missions are the street missions? What happens? I've not encountered a single one yet.

[toblix]

They're hard to miss. While you're driving, the radio crackles about something going down, and you hit X (or A, I guess) and a yellow portal man appears on the map and radar, usually on the far side of town.

[Thrik]

Are they anything substantial or just generic throwaway moments like in Red Dead Redemption?

[toblix]

They're not substantial at all, but they're all unique. They have a custom introduction sequence, and then there's some short fight and/or chase sequence, and that's it.