New "old-school" LucasArts game announced tomorrow

[Jake]

This isn't style, this is just sloppy shit. It's LucasArts saying to the artist: "stop your fucking drawing and deliver your files".

It really does look like someone forgot to turn off the background layer in Photoshop before flattening the image. I wonder if the artists handed the art off and then someone screwed it up at an art-tech level? It's perfectly reasonable to expect that an up-res'd version of a game would be created by enlarging the original art and then painting over it. Isn't that also what they did with Street Fighter II HD Remix? I know it's semantics but I generally try to not assign specific blame in situations like this unless I actually know what happened, because stuff like that can crop up in a million and one ways.

[toblix]

Yeah, now that you mention it, it's almost too unbelievable that an artist would hand in this stuff. Someone including too much when flattening the image sounds more likely. Not that that makes the game any more polished, but I guess it reflects better on the artists.

[Jake]

Yeah, now that you mention it, it's almost too unbelievable that an artist would hand in this stuff. Someone including too much when flattening the image sounds more likely. Not that that makes the game any more polished, but I guess it reflects better on the artists.

I'm not saying that I know what happened, obviously someone screwed up because there's 90s pixels everywhere when the whole point is that they are supposed to be not there, but jumping to conclusions and blaming a dude doesn't solve the mystery.

[toblix]

I'm not saying that I know what happened, obviously someone screwed up because there's 90s pixels everywhere when the whole point is that they are supposed to be not there, but jumping to conclusions and blaming a dude doesn't solve the mystery.

No, obviously you don't know, but what you said sounds, to me, more plausible. Also, since we don't know, it would be wrong to blame any one person for the SHITTY GRAPHICS. You know, unless someone came here and said "I made those".

[miffy495]

OK, so I just finished Act 1 after working on getting my sound back up and running, and I have to say it's not as bad as I thought. It's not fantastic, but the voice acting almost makes me forgive some of the design choices. It's great to have Armato playing Guybrush, and Boen's LeChuck is fantastic. That was the one sore point about ToMI for me, so having LeChuck's voice being what I remember it is great. On the other hand, some voices (the Men of Low Moral Fibre, for example) are just godawful. Elaine's, while not terrible, just seems a bit wrong too. I know it's the same woman who played her very well in CoMI and ToMI, but for whatever reason she seems out of place in this one. And I never really pictured Rob Paulsen as Bob, but whatever. He does an Ok job.

I can't believe how hit-and-miss every aspect of this game is. The voices I already explained, but the graphics are the same way. There are some great details, like seeing Manny Calavera's head in the skull/smoke in front of LeChuck's ship, but then there's the fact that when Guybrush is addressing the camera it looks like an idle animation from Donkey Kong Country.

Anyway, I'm definitely going to see it all the way through, if only to experience it, but the quality really is all over the place.

[syntheticgerbil]

Which has a surprising amount of reinterpretation going on, when compared to the original shipping version. The 256 color version of MI is kind of secretly the first Special Edition.

Elaine is much sexier in 256 colors. Guybrush too, I think, although that may have been less desired.

...credit for putting clearly legitimate love and effort into this project.

I personally don't feel or see any love and effort at all, though.

Whether the team was really hindered by drawing over the original art or not is really just speculation. I'm sure there are just as many talented artists who could do a consistently great job in that framework. The characters were all redesigned though for the most part, so Guybrush's ugliness for instance can't really be excused in that case.

This isn't style, this is just sloppy shit. It's LucasArts saying to the artist: "stop your fucking drawing and deliver your files".

Yeah the white cut outs around the top of the house, the big pixels scattered all around beneath the new art, as well as those ugly light blue parts in the trees from someone not cutting out their shit right are all really inexcusable on a final release in my opinion, whether you like the new art or not. This is what really bothers me, not whether the whole team was capable or not. Normally you would think you would have the art director or someone who played through at least once who would report on this and have it fixed before release.

It's not like it's hard work to resave your art without your bottom layers showing through or to tweak your overlaid graphics so cut out garbage isn't over the screen. This should have been really obvious because tons of black and dark blue is all over Melee island and white pixel junk sticks out like a sore thumb.

I can't believe how hit-and-miss every aspect of this game is. The voices I already explained, but the graphics are the same way. There are some great details, like seeing Manny Calavera's head in the skull/smoke in front of LeChuck's ship, but then there's the fact that when Guybrush is addressing the camera it looks like an idle animation from Donkey Kong Country.

I would be inclined to say, although I'm clearly not sure, a lot of this unevenness may come from a team that wasn't equally skilled all around that shared a lot of the same work, causing the art to sort of fluctuate. I posted Dela Longfish's blog earlier and that guy is immensely talented and skilled. I'm not familiar with the artist enough to pick out which parts of the game's art he created or not, but it seems to me like his personal artwork on display would show he is capable of very structured and beautiful work.

If someone has the credits from the remake and would like to repost them, I would be very grateful. The Special Edition hasn't made it to mobygames yet.

Edited July 20, 2009 by syntheticgerbil

[toblix]

Oh, no! I just thought of the following: How will I be able to go through with my plan to play all MI games before TOMI? For some reason I assumed the three other games were also out, but... they aren't!

I know MI2 can be done in ScummVM. Anyone know how easy it is to get CMI and EMI up and running? I guess maybe ScummVM handles CMI too by now, but EMI, with all it's 3D...

edit: Just noticed neither CMI or EMI are mentioned in the ScummVM compatibility list.

edit 2: Son of Edit: CMI is there, with 90% compatibility, no less!

edit III: And for EMI, there's this. Guess I'm all set.

[syntheticgerbil]

Oh, no! I just thought of the following: How will I be able to go through with my plan to play all MI games before TOMI? For some reason I assumed the three other games were also out, but... they aren't!

I know MI2 can be done in ScummVM. Anyone know how easy it is to get CMI and EMI up and running? I guess maybe ScummVM handles CMI too by now, but EMI, with all it's 3D...

edit: Just noticed neither CMI or EMI are mentioned in the ScummVM compatibility list.

edit 2: Son of Edit: CMI is there, with 90% compatibility, no less!

A few years ago I had played through EMI on Windows XP without any problems, so if you are using that, it may work.

EDIT: REDITED EVERYTHING!

[toblix]

Sorry.

[syntheticgerbil]

Sorry.

Not as sorry as you are going to be when you play EMI!

[Udvarnoky]

I don't know if I'd say CMI works "perfectly" in SCUMMVM, as last time I checked it still didn't fully support iMUSE, but it's an excellent alternative if you can't get the game to run natively (which I still manage to pull off with Win95 compatibility mode) or if you're running it on a different platform.

[Sergey]

This isn't style, this is just sloppy shit. It's LucasArts saying to the artist: "stop your fucking drawing and deliver your files".

Hmm, those stones look awful..

Looks like he just got started with a few brushstrokes and then forgot about them.

[toblix]

I think George Lucas snuck into the offices of all the artists one night and just flattened and saved all the art.

[Jayel]

whatever may have been the case,

this style is contagious!

[elmuerte]

Thar be pixels, matey?

[syntheticgerbil]

I think George Lucas snuck into the offices of all the artists one night and just flattened and saved all the art.

Did he flatten it by crushing the screen with his bare hands?

[elmuerte]

I would assume he just s(h)at on it

[ThunderPeel2001]

Guybrush is asking the SCUMM Bar cook why he should sail after Elaine in order to rescue her... I was expecting to see the word "Love" written on his face as it was in the original, not Guybrush turning to the camera and actually saying "Love!"... Was that supposed to be part of the speech?

OMG. They didn't do this, did they?!? Why has no-one mentioned it? It's a silly VISUAL gag ("Airplane" style). It doesn't even make sense if Guybrush says "Love"... Did they really do this??

[Udvarnoky]

It's spoken, but the text is also there as in the original. To me adding voice to that is pretty pointless, just like narrating that "Hours later" and "Meanwhile in LeChuck's lair" text, but it's hardly a big deal. (And hey, there narrator is Denny Delk!)

I've got to say, I think the majority of the complaining I've seen here is pretty over the top, and feels like it's rooted more in nostalgia than in objective criticism. I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's opinion here, but would merely like to point out that for most complaints lobbied at the SE compared to the CD VGA version upon which it's based, analogous whines could be conjured when comparing the VGA version against the EGA version. Things get reinterpreted for a project like this - that's part of the deal. If that notion is inherently scandalous to you, then it's probably best to completely stay away. This title is billing itself as a remake, not a replacement. It's called a "Special Edition" - and from the same people who made Special Edition an infamous moniker, no less.

I've got gripes about some of the stylistic choices made with the characters not to mention a lot of other things, but maybe someone in the early 90s had a similar problem with the VGA version's photo realistic character closeups versus the original Purcell ones? Perhaps our precious VGA version that we're viewing the SE as a mockery of was considered taboo by a diehard few for the liberties it took and potential detail that was sacrificed in updating the original game to 256 colors? Maybe for every visual gag like the "LOVE" thing that can be whined about, someone could also whine about that flying chest being replaced by a flying rock in the EGA/VGA conversion, or the lost stump joke in the CD version? There are countless other discrepancies that I'm sure ATMachine would be happy to share if you asked him, each as inconsequential as the next. And yeah, the voicing feels slightly weird, because the game was built on top of the original code and the dialogue was never meant to be spoken. But we already knew that. For the parameters worked under, the voice work is as good as can be, and satisfies the "I wonder what it would sound like voiced" itch that many people wanted to have scratched, more out of curiosity than because they thought it would make for actual improvement. The talent is top notch, and it's fun to experience the original game with Dom and company taking a whack at delivering lines people have been pretending they were saying since CMI came out.

This game will succeed in introducing newcomers to the series (a good thing), and for the old timers it's meant as nothing more than a harmless boon to take or leave, but for some reason some people like to treat it more like a threat to the game's legacy, or more likely their childhoods. I for one will probably not play the SE much again after my initial playthrough (though I think it was worth playing and feel like I got my money's worth out of it), because I already have my preferred version of the game. That's the thing, we all have our preferred, "correct" version. I might slightly bemoan the fact that some kid today will be first exposed to MI through this version when I feel it's inferior, but there might be some people close to 30 who played The Secret of Monkey Island on the Amiga alongside his dad who would feel sorry for me for being exposed to the VGA PC version first. At the end of the day LEC's concoction is just the latest release of Monkey Island 1 in a lineup of them, complete with strengths and weaknesses.

Edited July 22, 2009 by Udvarnoky

[syntheticgerbil]

I've got gripes about some of the stylistic choices made with the characters not to mention a lot of other things, but maybe someone in the early 90s had a similar problem with the VGA version's photo realistic character closeups versus the original Purcell ones? Perhaps our precious VGA version that we're viewing the SE as a mockery of was considered taboo by a diehard few for the liberties it took and potential detail that was sacrificed in updating the original game to 256 colors?

I've been hearing this a lot lately for whatever reason, but you have to admit there is much less discrepancy going on from the EGA version to the 256 color version than the 256 color version to the Special Edition. The Special Edition has many more drastic stylistic changes between the last version 20 years ago, and you did not mention all of the graphic mistakes as well.

And before it is said, yes I understand in the 256 color versions of every LucasArts adventure with a 16 color counterpart, the EGA sprites are incorrectly used every once and a while, but I don't find that as equal or jarring as cut out trash on the screen or unhidden big pixel layers. Maybe that's a difference of opinion and you may not even bring it up, but I just don't feel it's the same.

What I feel you're describing is more like when someone picks whether they prefer to play the FM-Towns, 16 color, or CD version of Loom or maybe whether they want to play Maniac Mansion enhanced on PC or NES.

To me the best special edition would just have Spiffy's portrait put back in as I don't know why that was not done long ago. I would not mind music and voices as well though.

[Udvarnoky]

I've been hearing this a lot lately for whatever reason, but you have to admit there is much less discrepancy going on from the EGA version to the 256 color version than the 256 color version to the Special Edition.

Well, of course. 18 years might have had something to do with that. On the other hand, the game is surprisingly faithful - the fact that they built it right on top of the old game (right down to apparently drawing over hold backgrounds and retaining the restriction of animation frames) tells you something. Maybe it was wrongheaded, I don't know.

And before it is said, yes I understand in the 256 color versions of every LucasArts adventure with a 16 color counterpart, the EGA sprites are incorrectly used every once and a while, but I don't find that as equal or jarring as cut out trash on the screen or unhidden big pixel layers.

When I was referencing discrepancies I was referring more to quirky changes (rather than mistakes) that can be found between different versions of the game, such as the flying chest I mentioned. Now that you bring them up, though, I would definitely consider the old pixels in the SE as being very comparable to the unfinished VGA conversion art (in some cases of backgrounds in addition to sprites) in, say, Last Crusade.

What I feel you're describing is more like when someone picks whether they prefer to play the FM-Towns, 16 color, or CD version of Loom or maybe whether they want to play Maniac Mansion enhanced on PC or NES.

That's precisely what I'm describing. Is it really that far off? Excepting the character designs, MI:SE edition is way more slavish to its source than the CD-ROM version of Loom was to its original version. What's more unfaithful, changing Guybrush's hairstyle or rewriting a game's entire script and overhauling all non-interactive segments? And it's incredibly surprising to me that you would bring up the NES port of Maniac Mansion being that it is way more different than than what you see when you tap F10 during MI1:SE.

To me the best special edition would just have Spiffy's portrait put back in as I don't know why that was not done long ago. I would not mind music and voices as well though.

I probably agree, but it's not like I was lied to about what game I was buying.

[Chris]

I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's opinion here, but would merely like to point out that for most complaints lobbied at the SE compared to the CD VGA version upon which it's based, analogous whines could be conjured when comparing the VGA version against the EGA version. Things get reinterpreted for a project like this - that's part of the deal. If that notion is inherently scandalous to you, then it's probably best to completely stay away. This title is billing itself as a remake, not a replacement. It's called a "Special Edition" - and from the same people who made Special Edition an infamous moniker, no less.

Yes, such analogous whines could be conjured, but the thing is the new game looks bad to me. The VGA game doesn't. I have other complaints that are much more holistic and related to the original game, but at the most fundamental level, one of the things I'm saying is that even if this were a brand new game that had nothing to do with Monkey Island, I would still think it looks bad.

If this were a brand new game that wasn't a remake, would you seriously think the art is attractive? If the answer is genuinely "yes," then I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree. But if not, I don't understand why it gets a pass. The old game is obviously dated from a technical perspective, but that's not anybody's fault, it's just the nature of the passage of time in the video game industry. The new game has no such temporal setbacks hindering it. It is what it is.

[syntheticgerbil]

That's precisely what I'm describing. Is it really that far off? Excepting the character designs, MI:SE edition is way more slavish to its source than the CD-ROM version of Loom was to its original version. What's more unfaithful, changing Guybrush's hairstyle or rewriting a game's entire script and overhauling all non-interactive segments? And it's incredibly surprising to me that you would bring up the NES port of Maniac Mansion being that it is way more different than than what you see when you tap F10 during MI1:SE.

Well I still don't see it as the same. Loom was rewritten, yes, but I personally enjoy the voice acting and the story remained unchanged. I prefer the FM-Towns version because you get more of the same beautiful artwork done in the same vein as before. Some people prefer the 16 color version, but I see less difference between 256 color VGA Loom and 16 color EGA Loom that SMI 256 colors and SMI 16 color, especially in terms of character closeups.

I definitely don't see the same amount of difference between the NES and PC version of Maniac Mansion though. Both games had very rudimentary graphics and the NES game, while uglier in many instances, was a port to a lesser system, which makes it more understandable.

To put it very plainly, the difference between the CD-ROM version of Monkey Island and the Special Edition is more like the DOS version of Prince of Persia versus the Sega CD version:

This is okay above, the graphics are changed, but are certainly not jarring. Many would consider the SNES version the best version of the game, which is very actually very close to the Sega CD look during gameplay.

None of that is very jarring. Those are all very much the normal differences you would see in various versions of games from the late 80s and early 90s.

This kind of stylistic change however, is not okay:

To me, that's more of what's going on in the Monkey Island Special Edition.

[Chris]

things

Your images aren't showing up

[miffy495]

Really? I see them fine.