Borderlands

[ysbreker]

However, I feel Gearbox haven't made a decent game for ages so I'm not holding my breath.

If by ages you mean 8 years then you´re about right. They did make HL: opposing force and HL: blue shift.

[MrHoatzin]

Didn't Hot Scoops work for Gearbox for a little while there?

[MonkeyWrench]

If by ages you mean 8 years then you´re about right. They did make HL: opposing force and HL: blue shift.

I was originally going to say "ever" but I remembered those two

[miffy495]

I'm generally on the "If people understand then that's fine" side of things, I'm not going to complain when someone misuses "begging the question" or says "I could care less", but when it comes to technical terms I think it's important to be technically accurate. Otherwise it will just create more confusion in the long run.

Problem is, just because it's not a technical term for you doesn't mean it isn't one at all. I'm finishing my philosophy degree. "Begging the question" is part of the jargon of my discipline. As a result, hearing people misuse it irks me to no end.

[James]

Problem is, just because it's not a technical term for you doesn't mean it isn't one at all. I'm finishing my philosophy degree. "Begging the question" is part of the jargon of my discipline. As a result, hearing people misuse it irks me to no end.

Whilst I have my moments of pedantry, I think once the phrase is taken out of that context it ceases to matter (at least to the same degree). After all, from what I remember academic Philosophy has appropriated about half of the language for its own obscure and very specific definitions. OK, perhaps that's an exaggeration, but most fields develop their own lexicon, and it's probably a mistake to try to transfer that to general use.

Which isn't to say that dumb stuff doesn't annoy me. That "I could care less" means the opposite of what's intended is frustratingly daft, but until I start using "whom" instead of "who" on all appropriate occasions, I'm not sure I can claim that perfect English is as important as I once thought. It's good to know, of course, but not essential.

Basically, I don't want to be a hypocrite, and I'd rather lower my standards than raise my game.

[miffy495]

until I start using "whom" instead of "who" on all appropriate occasions, I'm not sure I can claim that perfect English is as important as I once thought.

...I actually try to do that.

[James]

Hahahaha, well at least you're consistent.

[SignorSuperdouche]

Problem is, just because it's not a technical term for you doesn't mean it isn't one at all.

Fair cop, "begging the question" was probably a bad example, but for me it's misuse is so rampant that there's just no point trying to fight it.

That "could care less" means the opposite of what some people think doesn't really matter. Just because you've happened to notice this one doesn't mean there aren't others that you're guilty of (I'll wager you've never used the word "peruse" correctly, for example). People extrapolate the meaning of words from the way other people use them, not the dictionary definition. Some words and phrases will always be misunderstood and misused - and in general conversation what's so wrong with that anyway?

[miffy495]

Actually, I looked up peruse when I was about 11 and have attempted to use it correctly since. I'm just sort of a dick when it comes to language I guess. I try not to be one that much in real life and usually just end up biting my tongue a lot, but yeah. I'm that guy. I'll accept that there are probably some phrases I use incorrectly, but I'm always on the lookout to stamp those out. I can see the point of the "if it makes sense to the listener, who cares?" side, but changing language is a slow process. There is going to be a long period of flux in which the meaning of the word or phrase is uncertain depending upon who you talk to. Look at the word "sick" for an example of this right now. This is one that I've gotten completely used to using as positive and negative at different times in the same day. Up until that period of transition hits, the rest of the world would either be using the word in its proper way or not at all, so to insist that your incorrect usage is fine because your point gets across just seems lazy to me. Of course, this is for non-technical terms. Technical ones should probably just remain constant all-told, as otherwise trying to read old documents from a discipline would gradually become more and more difficult.

So, how about that Borderlands?

[MrHoatzin]

So, how about that Borderlands?

I hear it is cell-shaded.

[SignorSuperdouche]

Actually, I looked up peruse when I was about 11 and have attempted to use it correctly since.

Haha, no way! Well fair play to you, you're certainly commited. I have to say that even though I think you're attitude is pretty daft, and in the case of "peruse" you're asking to make yourself less clear, I love that people like you exist. That's awesome

[miffy495]

...even though I think you're attitude is pretty daft...

...You're doing this on purpose, aren't you?

[toblix]

He definately is. That shit pisses me off. If you don't know how to write properly, don't fucking write.

[miffy495]

He definately is.

definitely.

AAAAAAHHH!:frusty::frusty:

I'll stop this now...

[brkl]

Dude, sentences begin with a capital letter.

[miffy495]

[James]

So, there are those of the opinion that being a dick and constantly correcting people is actually giving them valuable information and teaching them how to express themselves more eloquently.

Not that I completely subscribe to that belief. If I did, I'd tell the German at work that "slowly" is an adverb and not an adjective. I guess I'm not annoyed enough by "Why is this so slowly?" to go through the slight awkwardness.

[Wrestlevania]

OK, so naturally interest is ramping up before the game's release and I'm starting to twitch again.

One thing that's still putting me off is the fact people are consistently describing Borderlands as "an FPS Diablo, but not as varied or fun." The other is that I'm perceiving Thumb interest leaning towards the PC side of things, but I've no idea how it'll run on my machine (I suspect badly); have Gearbox announced a demo yet?

[Shakesbeard]

OK, so naturally interest is ramping up before the game's release and I'm starting to twitch again.

One thing that's still putting me off is the fact people are consistently describing Borderlands as "an FPS Diablo, but not as varied or fun." The other is that I'm perceiving Thumb interest leaning towards the PC side of things, but I've no idea how it'll run on my machine (I suspect badly); have Gearbox announced a demo yet?

If you want the game on day one, no, not by the looks of things. If you're willing to wait, we might see a demo.

[Wrestlevania]

If you want the game on day one, no, not by the looks of things. If you're willing to wait, we might see a demo.

If there's no demo then I won't buy it. I need to know it'll work on the system I'm getting it for before I'll put my hand in my pocket.

[George B]

This week our chapter of the IGDA had Lulu LaMer come in and talk about the change that took place in borderland's visual style.

She talked about how the art style change was proposed, which was interesting. It was the design team at Gearbox that came up with the new look, the same folks who had been working on the old look for a year+. They got Gearbox pres. Randy Pitchford to give them a few weeks to give the game a makeover, they did so and presented it to him. He then took the new look to 2k and was able to show them the changed design at the same time as he proposed it. The old art ambush. Luckily everyone involved saw how the art really worked much better than the old style, and this is how it changed with 9 months to go! (paraphrasing to the nth here, I just scribbled down some notes).

What made the decision easy, from 2k's perspective at least, was how the new visual style was more true to the "aesthetic contract"* implied by the gameplay... Over the top combat, 87 billionty weapons, etc... and a photorealistic style?? Doesn't quite work. Once this aesthetic contract was met new design decisions seemed much more easy to make, an example she gave was of oversized bad guys, who had seemed out of place in the photorealistic world, but looked great in this new stylized one.

Here's a direct quote from my notes:

"You discover your game through change." -L. LaMer

She talked a lot about communicating change to differing groups, how the language she uses when talking with designers, producers, publishers, and especially marketing people and 'buyers' is necessarily different. She can't use the language of formal design tools to explain to a firm how to market a game... she communicated with them in terms they could understand and wouldn't make their eyes glaze over. In the case of borderlands she had to describe it as "more white trashy" before they caught the drift of how to market it.

The game looks pretty fun, but time will tell, seems like it might be a nice placeholder while I wait for another post-apocalyptic stylized shooter to be released (hello Brink!)

[Wrestlevania]

Great insight, Floordje.

I guess I'm in the minority when I say I thought the art style switch was great for Borderlands. Looks much more its own game now, and it's good that the aesthetic freed up the Game- and Art Designers at Gearbox. Something I can empathise with, definitely.

[miffy495]

I'll be grabbing it on PC, but likely not for a while after launch. If anyone is still playing it when I get it, I'd be glad to participate in any thumb goings on. I don't trust playing with strangers...

[Erkki]

I guess I'm in the minority when I say I thought the art style switch was great for Borderlands.

I don't think you're in the minority

[James]

I guess I'm in the minority when I say I thought the art style switch was great for Borderlands.

In my limited experience, people have been pretty positive about it. There was a lot of skepticism when the change was first announced, but I think once people see it in action they're generally sold. I'm basing that on podcasts and a couple of friends. That's what I mean by "limited".