Movie/TV recommendations

[Jake]

Speaking of movies with number 9 in their title, I recommend 9 by Shane Acker. I worked on that one!

So that's what you've been up to! Awesome, I'll be sure to check it out.

[spindrift]

I didn't like how the aliens were portrayed as disruption to society. Felt like they were trying to justify why they were being discriminated against. As if we humans need more reasons than looking different.

I guess so that it was allegorical for class in addition to race.

[ThunderPeel2001]

District 9 was pretty damn good, but I didn't like how the aliens were portrayed as disruption to society. Felt like they were trying to justify why they were being discriminated against. As if we humans need more reasons than looking different.

It was based on Neill Blomkamp's childhood in South Africa during apartheid. The aliens weren't portrayed as a disruption to society, IIRC, they were only a "disruption" to those who didn't want them there... or when they had ovbiously had enough of being treated so badly and attacked something.

You could see similar talking heads saying the same things about black South Africans during apartheid... (If they're the bits you're talking about?)

[Scrobbs]

I liked Chris, and eventually liked Wikus. I thought it was quite sympathetic towards the aliens tbh.

[James]

9

Is that the one people were saying looks kind of like Little Big Planet but sad?

(Not to make any judgements or claims of actual similarity or anything.)

I liked Chris, and eventually liked Wikus. I thought it was quite sympathetic towards the aliens tbh.

Yes, but was no-one else uncomfortable with the implication that everyone would be better off if they just went home? That seems to have a rather risky analogue.

The film was good, but I kind of felt like the allegorical setting and the action film ending were a little at odds with one another.

Edited September 11, 2009 by JamesM

[ThunderPeel2001]

Yes, but was no-one else uncomfortable with the implication that everyone would be better off if they just went home? That seems to have a rather risky analogue. The film was good, but I kind of felt like the allegorical setting and the action film ending were a little at odds with one another.

Ooh, wow. I didn't think of that.

It's true that you're left with a feeling that them "going home" would be better. I mean on the one hand it makes perfect sense: They've been stranded here/they're treated like crap. On the other it's quite controversial: Solving the problem of racial and cultural integration can just be a matter of taking "them" somewhere else -- yeuch.

From that perspective I can see how their portrayal as savage/backwards aliens might be troublesome. Interesting.

As we didn't really see an "ending" to the story, this might be something for District 10 to cover!

[Scrobbs]

I was uncomfortable with the initial eviction and resettlement - one of the reasons Wikus was slippery and unlikeable initially, as he was so enthusiastic about it. But that was a fairly thinly disguised resettlement program of the sort we know humans are capable of. (Thinking about it now, is it bad that I was so blasé and not at all surprised about it in the film? Not sure that says something about my level of cynicism or what).

I think the pervading feeling in amongst the populace in JHB was that they should go, and that everyone would be better off, yes - however, you're left with the intent that when Chris gets home, he will be rounding up the troops for a retributional cleansing... The point being that yes, you can treat people like shit because they are different and perhaps appear weaker than yourselves, but you must also be prepared to deal with the consequences if and when those people reveal themselves to be bigger/more numerous/stronger/more vicious and feel that they are owed something.

To answer your point though, yes, it was a little discomfiting, but you (or I was at any rate) are left with the view that JHB (and/or humans in general) were going to get their come-uppance. Perhaps actually in that sense for the first time providing a solid reason for an alien invasion, viz. their previous serious maltreatment.

[ThunderPeel2001]

I personally didn't even consider that Chris might be coming back with an army in order to get "revenge" on humans. And if he did come back with an army I expect it would only be in order to extract their people. (In history, generally speaking, people don't want to fight unless they need to, aren't interested in revenge, and are satisfied with freedom and equality -- even after years of slavery/abuse.) But then again, these aren't people!

Maybe it's good if they don't make a sequel, so that people can consider for themselves what might happen!

[Scrobbs]

Hmm, maybe I got the wrong end of the stick. He said he wouldn't let his people be medical experiments (just noticed he used the english word for that amongst the clicks), then he said he must go home and get help. Perhaps I was making a human assumption that he would be out for vengeance.

[UncleSpaggles]

Interesting, when he said he had to go and save his people I thought he meant on his home world, not the ones he was leaving behind District 9.

[ThunderPeel2001]

So many different ways of interpreting it! Maybe they should just leave it open.

[JonCole]

I don't really know how to do the spoiler tags, so I'd appreciate if someone let me know how those dealios work. But while I'm waiting for that, I'd like to make a shameless plug to my blog, where I wrote a review of District 9 and just last night wrote a review of Gamer: http://www.joncole.info/ Though, to give a little spoiler of my own, Gamer was horrendous, don't go see it.

Nonetheless, I'd like to engage this moral topic, so someone give me a heads up on how that works, please.

[ThunderPeel2001]

Just put your text between [ spoiler ] tags [ / spoiler]. (Also remove the spaces.)

[UncleSpaggles]

[spoiler ] Idle Thumbs is crap [/spoiler ]

But take out the space...

[James]

I just remembered something else that made me somewhat uneasy: the apparently genetically-programmed caste system. On the one hand it gives the film something of an excuse for depicting the aliens as somewhat savage (which the writers may have considered a narrative or tonal necessity), but again, when taken as an analogy for racial tensions in human communities it evokes some depressingly familiar ideas. It might be that I'm dwelling too much on over-extending the analogy (I think I may have a tendency to do that), but these are the things that struck me as I watched the film.

[JonCole]

Ah, thanks!

Anyways, I think you guys may be presuming a little too much. Assuming all of the aliens on Earth are of the worker caste, Chris might not even have the power to do very much, let alone raise an army. I think that D9 is smart enough not to fall into some sort of illogical premise that space-faring aliens don't have a social/bureaucratic structure similar or comparable to ours.

I just remembered something else that made me somewhat uneasy: the apparently genetically-programmed caste system. On the one hand it gives the film something of an excuse for depicting the aliens as somewhat savage (which the writers may have considered a narrative or tonal necessity), but again, when taken as an analogy for racial tensions in human communities it evokes some depressingly familiar ideas. It might be that I'm dwelling too much on over-extending the analogy (I think I may have a tendency to do that), but these are the things that struck me as I watched the film.

I know that Neill said that he designed the aliens the way he did pretty much because he thought they'd look cool that way, but if you were to really scrutinize the film, I think you could easily just say that a caste-type system isn't too foreign to insectoid species so even though there were massive technological advancements in the alien society, there was still an undercurrent of genetic ordering.

[James]

I don't think these things ruin the film or anything. I tend to have difficulty divining the meaning or message of things, so when I understand something I might latch onto it a bit much. If a film is about something, I expect it to be very consistent and thorough and clear about it. Well, to a certain extent I do. Sometimes. Maybe. In actuality, District 9 is as much about cool stuff happening and personal drama as it is the politics and morality of racial segregation and so on. I think. Perhaps.

[UncleSpaggles]

When the mothership is broken into the conditions reminded me of sex slave trafficking in large sea freighter containers, I assumed that the aliens were worker drones and perhaps Christopher was a higher level alien who transported them. Maybe after 20 years living on Earth and witnessing humanity he wanted to return to his home world and liberate his people?

[James]

I know that Neill said that he designed the aliens the way he did pretty much because he thought they'd look cool that way, but if you were to really scrutinize the film, I think you could easily just say that a caste-type system isn't too foreign to insectoid species so even though there were massive technological advancements in the alien society, there was still an undercurrent of genetic ordering.

I'm not criticizing the film on biological grounds, or in terms of realism in general; I'm saying that, taken as an analogy for human racial conflict, it has some uncomfortable implications (if you read enough into it). The group that the people are upset about are genetically predisposed to lesser intelligence and greater violence. There are those who believe the same of certain races of humanity.

[UncleSpaggles]

Your talking about the Welsh.

[Garple]

Speaking of movies with number 9 in their title, I recommend 9 by Shane Acker. I worked on that one!

Oh my God, really? That movie looks so mother-f'ing sick! All they have to do is mumble Tim Burton's name during the preview for an animated movie and I'm down like James Brown.

[Scrobbs]

There was a definite caste system implication, that's for sure. Like they couldn't look after themselves. I took Chris as either a pilot caste (and above the workers therefore) or simply a worker who through dint of hard work has brought about understanding. However, the fact he built his shack on top of the command craft points to a greater awareness before they even landed, even if he was part of the lower caste.

If that is the case, a good point was made, will anyone even listen to him when he gets home? He seemed confident they would, so perhaps he was of a higher caste in the first place.

Was also quite a touching moment when he was talking to his son, and pointing at the tent, "This could be ours".

[Jayel]

I thought that it was drawing some allegorical references to actual events (which is why I was able to overlook some of the more obvious plot holes that wouldn't otherwise be acceptable in hardcore sci-fi), but I didn't know it was based on the filmmaker's personal experience! that's interesting.

Anyway, the impression I got of the aliens is that they were given equal chances initially, but their natural aggression and lack of respect for human life forced them to segregation. If they were acting out because they were fed up, I surely didn't get that part - but to be frank I wasn't paying very close attention near the beginning of the movie so I might have missed that. The caste system explains their savage nature so to speak, but I don't recall hearing about it in the movie either. I don't think i would've guessed, because they seemed to lack any sort of leadership. Were they all supposed to be part of the lower caste?

I should really see it again.

Hey, anybody notice similarities between District 9 and Enemy Mine? They even rhyme!

So 9, yeah, it's more of a Shane Acker movie than Tim Burton movie, but it sure is visually impressive for such a (relatively) low budget movie! I've seen several comments on the web where people draw connections between little big planet's sack boy and characters in 9 - the similarities are definitely there, but short film version of 9 has been around for years before LBP went into production, so any allegation that 9 took ideas from LBP is unfounded

[Scrobbs]

There was nothing explicit about the caste system - just something I inferred from the discovery when they opened the space craft.

[JonCole]

There was nothing explicit about the caste system - just something I inferred from the discovery when they opened the space craft.

Are you sure? I was under the same impression, but I seem to recall one of the MNU mention that they seem to be workers because they don't have any apparent hierarchy or collective motivation.