ysbreker

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Ahhh, I see. You're talking about plot arcs versus mystery-of-the-week episodes. I thought you were talking specifically about character relationships. Yeah, I'd definitely like to see them work a little more on properly threading Moriarty through the series rather than just have namedropping at the end of each episode. Although I wouldn't want to lose the standalone stories completely.

Supernatural is very good at that stuff.

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I actually would prefer not to have an overarching Moriarty storyline at all. My Sherlock Holmes was never about some criminal mastermind always looming in the shadows, pulling the string, etc. The way they have handled him so far (especially in Baskerville's) has been so silly that it would be better if he didn't exist at all outside that one episode.

The series is somehow less depressing if/when Sherlock and Watson actually manage to solve the case by the end of the episode and that's that – no menacing laughter just before the credits start rolling. Other series are already doing great job at presenting the world as a shitty place where nothing ever gets better no matter what you do.

God I miss Keen Eddie.

Edited by Nappi

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Has anyone seen 'Drive'? A friend described it to me as 'fucking mint' and 'the best film I [he] have seen all year [2011]'. So I watched it.

Good story, but it dragged a bit in between the action bits. I even paused it and wondered off to do some other stuff before coming back to finish it. So, meh in some parts, but allofasuddenitspeedsupandeverythinghappensallatonce. Those bits were good.

BUT! What I couldn't work out was whether the film-makers were taking the piss or not. We've all read the Teal and Orange thing - this film seems to take it to another level. When I spotted it I thought, "Are they trying to make a point? Really, really shoving it in your face? Or are they actually doing it to make it 'pop'"

Reason? They haven't just coloured it teal and orange. No. They've got things like TEAL wallpaper and ORANGE lighting in a scene. Once you notice it in one scene, it's in your face for the rest of the film. So it's not even digitised in. I kind of wanted to believe that it was tongue in cheek, as the film actually seemed quite intelligent in a way, but I came to the conclusion that no, it wasn't ironic O&T. It was just over-the-top-in-your-face-O&T. Fail.

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LOVED Drive. Easily one of the best films of last year. LOVED the fact that it was slow, too. I found those moments absolutely engrossing, and they made the action, what little there was of it, even more gripping.

I also thought it was easily one of the most beautiful films of the year. I found it to be stunning. Really. Far from "O&T OTT" -- there was plenty of pinks and purples and deep blues in that film.

I wonder if your expectations were too high, though? I didn't know what to expect, and was floored by a totally off-key movie. Very different than typical popcorn faire.

Also, a request (not just to you, Scrobbs): Can we just get over this "Orange and Teal" = BAD thing? Just because someone spotted a trend in cinematography doesn't automatically negate that cinematography. Well done for spotting it, but no that doesn't mean it's bad. It's just a style, like dark shadows and harsh lights in Film Noir. Or stunningly bright color in films like Wizard of Oz or Singing in the Rain. It requires just as much skill to make something look beautiful using Orange and Teal as it does anything else. It's not like it's a shortcut that poor cinematographers use, it's just a style that's popular at the moment.

[/rant]

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I really enjoy both the Sherlock Holmes series and the movies. I enjoy the series more for the story and whatnots, although some of the "shelock is so smart!" stuff goes overboard. (His Mind Palace, in particular, was too much.) I enjoy the movies more for just being... fun, in general.

So, my question: Is Sherlock really that wacko-nuts in the books? I keep meaning to read them, but I never really thought of him as a crazy, eccentric kind of guy from the various references I've received in pop culture. I expect he's going to be a bit manic, but is he really that bad?

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Yes, and no. He was more interesting when his flaws were on display than when he was being perfect, but that wasn't that often. He was a bit aloof, a bit cold, and a bit introverted. And when he had no cases, he'd stimulate his brain with cocaine (yes). He was definitely portrayed as eccentric.

Modern adapters have run with that, just like they've run with everything else Conan Doyale gave them: Moriarty (mentioned once, if I'm not mistaken), Irene Adler (also mentioned once), Mycroft (barely mentioned), etc.

I'd say Jeremy Brett's interpretation was closest to the book, while also being highly entertaining. Very recommended.

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Also, a request (not just to you, Scrobbs): Can we just get over this "Orange and Teal" = BAD thing? Just because someone spotted a trend in cinematography doesn't automatically negate that cinematography. Well done for spotting it, but no that doesn't mean it's bad. It's just a style, like dark shadows and harsh lights in Film Noir. Or stunningly bright color in films like Wizard of Oz or Singing in the Rain. It requires just as much skill to make something look beautiful using Orange and Teal as it does anything else. It's not like it's a shortcut that poor cinematographers use, it's just a style that's popular at the moment.

[/rant]

It's possible for something to become so commonly adopted that it becomes a cliche, and the bar justifying its usage raises considerably if you mean to make something worthwhile.

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I'm not so sure TP. The beauty of computers is that tasks can be set up to easily repeatable, quickly. The nature of digitisation means that that can be somewhat automated and by extension, pre-digitisation was a lot more skilful. That isn't to denigrate video editors, as that is a skilfull job - but that colourisation aspect not so.

O&T = bad because it is so prevalent. You could argue it's a phase, but I agree with that blog dude: it's lazy.

As for drive - perhaps I could be persuaded that they were taking the piss with the OTT O&T stuff - it seemed really glaring.

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I'm not so sure TP. The beauty of computers is that tasks can be set up to easily repeatable, quickly. The nature of digitisation means that that can be somewhat automated and by extension, pre-digitisation was a lot more skilful. That isn't to denigrate video editors, as that is a skilfull job - but that colourisation aspect not so.

O&T = bad because it is so prevalent. You could argue it's a phase, but I agree with that blog dude: it's lazy.

I don't believe there's anything that can be automated to the level you're talking about. I don't believe there's an "orange and teal" button -- but even if there was, cinematography is about a LOT more than a colour scheme.

As for drive - perhaps I could be persuaded that they were taking the piss with the OTT O&T stuff - it seemed really glaring.

I just don't buy that it's a "piss take". I can't think of a single reason a cinematographer would do that to their own work, and I can't think of a reason a director would take the time to make a meta-joke that 0.0001% of the audience would get. Plus, it would take just as long to light and stage as a non-orange and teal film.

As I said before, Drive was easily one of the most beautiful films of the year, and I'm willing to bet it wins some awards for its cinematography.

Edit: Here's an American Society of Cinematographers article about Drive:

http://www.ascmag.com/ac_magazine/October2011/Drive/page1.php

Edited by ThunderPeel2001

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It's possible for something to become so commonly adopted that it becomes a cliche, and the bar justifying its usage raises considerably if you mean to make something worthwhile.

That's true... but is it really a cliché, yet? I don't think it is. A tiny number of the population are aware of it. I've never heard a film critic discuss it, or seen it mentioned in film reviews, or heard anyone talk about it in real life.

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Re: automation - sure, no specific button, but macros and such like. I will chase it up with some BBC eds I can tap.

As for the other, I might give it another watch, and see if the o&t has such an impact. I did enjoy the film, just felt my mind wandering. Perhaps I wasn't in the mood.

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Mostly with Chris and Tonsko on this. I notice it, it distracts me, and that makes it a blemish. Art direction should be able to step beyond a sacharine and overused type of colour contrast. One of the reasons I enjoyed Tron: Legacy was that it largely avoided it, and it made me a little sad that it was such a refreshing aesthetic change.

I still almost want to fire up photoshop and put some teal in elmuerte's avatar though.

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I would say to all of you to read the ASC article I linked to. The idea that they would rely on Macros for the look of a film, and a "quick fix", is blown out the water very, very quickly. Remember: Drive was a low budget film. Consider that when you read about the lengths they went to in the article.

That said:

S4x4rXsCQTU

95% of these I would agree ARE obviously digitally manipulated into looking very orange and teal... I still stand by my assertion that orange and teal doesn't automatically make an image beautiful, though. I personally find almost all of the images in that video beautiful, tricks or no tricks. You'll also note that digital colour grading is an additional step in the filmmaking process.

I still almost want to fire up photoshop and put some teal in elmuerte's avatar though.

Me too.

Edited by ThunderPeel2001

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So I liked In Time.

And I wish you'd all get over this orange and teal bullshit.

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So I liked In Time.

And I wish you'd all get over this orange and teal bullshit.

Ok, let's discuss something else.

So, ummm.. You liked In Time, no?

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I did! I'm still not sure I like Justin Timberlake as an actor (hell, I'm not sure I like him as a person), but he did well enough for himself. I will never stop liking Cillian Murphy, I hope he keeps getting jobs for a long time to come. More importantly, I kind of wish In Time was a book series, as opposed to a one-off movie. That'd give options for tying up plotholes like;

- Why the fuck does only White Collar guy realize this is all a sham? From what I saw human population has been more than sufficiently contained by this genetics experiment, why not lower cost of living? Or maybe I missed something somewhere. Either way, I feel like "they're just making it cost more time so there are less people" shouldn't be an earth-shattering, life-changing revelation.

- I feel like, if the technology for things like more or less putting a human body into mobile stasis is available, why is the most complex thing in the movie cars that make a nigh-unaudiable whirring/humming sound? It's not really a plothole but it bothered me.

- Finally, what makes Timberlake's character so special? If the map in the Timekeeper HQ is correct, the ghetto covers an incredible potion of the mid-west of the United States, not to mention what the state of the rest of the world must be. (The call between Weiss and his partners(?) takes place in at least four different countries.) He can't be the only guy that's lost a father to fighting. Hell, as heartbreaking as it is I'm one hundred percent sure the situation with his mother is not unique. Yeah, Leon sort of hints at it, but suddenly and only once does he say "I'm pretty sure my father was killed" Yeah? So? Why don't they kill the guy running the time mission? Why are these banks with thousands of days, and even years, so poorly guarded? Why the fuck has no-one done this before? Perhaps more importantly, how did they get the armored truck with a small caliber handgun?

I really like it, but I feel like every single one of those concerns would be able to be covered in a trilogy of novels. Still, it's an interesting way to do a Bonnie and Clyde piece. Even if I don't appreciate the implicit morality play of the whole thing.

:tup::tmeh:

Sidenote, because it's not really worth analyzing much: Jumper, what a terrible last five minutes.

Edited by Orvidos

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Oog, Jumper was mostly terrible.

I'm not going to talk about O&T (I thought it was mostly film posters that had got into that habit), but I'll quickly say that I thought Drive looked gorgeous. It was like a 70s existential thriller with an 80s aesthetic and score overlayed. And yeah, the story is quite slight and there are slow sections, but that's par for the course with this sub-genre, as with Vanishing Point or Point Blank. A lot of people who recommend it are quick to make the caveat that it's not The Transporter, Kill Bill or Furious Five, because if you go in expecting that kind of movie your expectations may sully your enjoyment. Also, I saw it on the big screen which I think benefited it. Win.

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A lot of people who recommend it are quick to make the caveat that it's not The Transporter, Kill Bill or Furious Five, because if you go in expecting that kind of movie your expectations may sully your enjoyment.

I actually went in with the opposite expectation. I had heard people say "the start of the film is a car chase but that's not really the film" so I thought it was going to be a totally non-action film. The fact that it did end up being kind of an action film at times later on took me by surprise and I think that made it feel even better. I'm way too used to crazy violence and explosions and permanent adrenaline rushes now, settling in and feeling calm and curious before suddenly being hit with violent crises and physical emergencies actually made the action make an impact for once.

I almost feel bad for spoiling the possibility of that experience for another just by saying all that, but I avoided it in my first post about the film and after a certain point you have to accept that discussing anything creates preconceptions, even if you avoid explicit content references.

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Modern adapters have run with that, just like they've run with everything else Conan Doyale gave them: Moriarty (mentioned once, if I'm not mistaken), Irene Adler (also mentioned once), Mycroft (barely mentioned), etc.

Moriarty is a central character in "The Final Problem," is mentioned in The Valley of Fear, and his right-hand man is the central antagonist in "The Adventure of the Empty House".

Irene is, of course, the star of "A Scandal in Bohemia".

Mycroft appears several times, and is well-defined as a character. The one very interesting thing the recent BBC modern-day adaptation added was that it implied Sherlock is the way he is because he's trying to be like his older brother. Unlike Mycroft, however, he does not manage to be completely logical and without emotion.

I'd say Jeremy Brett's interpretation was closest to the book, while also being highly entertaining. Very recommended.

I recently discovered the BBC radio dramas with Clive Merrison. They're quite good too.

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Mycroft appears several times, and is well-defined as a character. The one very interesting thing the recent BBC modern-day adaptation added was that it implied Sherlock is the way he is because he's trying to be like his older brother. Unlike Mycroft, however, he does not manage to be completely logical and without emotion.

Mycroft in the series seems to differ quite a lot from the original. As I remember, he is supposed to surpass his brother in the art of reasoning but is indolent and never gets anything done. Mycroft of the series, on the other hand, appears hard working and efficient but intellectually quite inferior to the password cracking genius of his brother. Then again, I don't remember the original Sherlock Holmes of being literally incapable of understanding human emotions, either.

This does not bother me much, though. People are free to interpret Sherlock and pals anyway they like.

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I like the way they've updated Mycroft. Instead of being so indolent he sits around at a gentlemen's club all day, he instead has found himself a nice government job where he can get his minions to do everything for him, from behind his desk.

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Moriarty is a central character in "The Final Problem," is mentioned in The Valley of Fear, and his right-hand man is the central antagonist in "The Adventure of the Empty House".

Irene is, of course, the star of "A Scandal in Bohemia".

Mycroft appears several times, and is well-defined as a character.

Nice to know. I never got much further than The Hound of the Baskervilles, as I recall. Still, Wikipedia tells me that the brief descriptions of Moriarty in those three stories contradict each other (as is usual for Sherlock Holmes). I don't recall Mycroft being "well defined" more than him being a smarter, lazier, chubbier version of Sherlock, but as I say, I've not read all the stories.

It'd be interesting if Thumbs who have never read the original stories posted their thoughts given this resurgence of interest in the character.

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I never read them, but I of course know the character through the media aether. In fact, all the recent adaptions have made me very curious to read the original books.

I noticed many of them are free on iTunes/Kindle, maybe I should make it a project and post about it?

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